Getrag Clutches

[MBlanks]

Well, I'm a new member to TDR, although I have been reading the old TDR magazine issues that a friend of mine recieves. I bought a 1990 W250 last May with 65,000 miles on it and have recently been worried that I need a new clutch. While the clutch isn't slipping yet, the pedal travels all the way up before engaging, the throwout bearing is making an abnormal amount of racket, 2nd and 3rd gears are difficult to get into sometimes. My question is what is the life expectancy is out of the original clutches? Should I wait until the clutch really starts slipping before I replace it or go ahead and do it now??? I have already talked with the guys at South Bend Clutch and plan on getting a MU 0090 Con. O clutch, because I don't pull a trailer everyday and then not more than about 7,500 lbs. Any suggestions on what I ought to do?



Thanks,

Mark

 

[JApplegate]

first get a new transmittion (nv4500)... ... and why you are in there you can replace the clutch..... just my idea but it is expensive... ... realy expensive

 

[1stgen4evr]

Getrag clutch

First, it isn't a Getrag, it is a Sachs. The throwout bearing is a seperate issue from the clutch but a bad throwout will become a clutch problem in that if/when the throwout bearing goes, it will ruin the fingers on the diaphragm of the clutch. Change RIGHT NOW. The pedal on my 93 comes quite high also and that may not be a problem but if the throwout is noisy, it is telling you to do something NOW.



Pull the transmission and you can replace the throwout bearing without disturbing the clutch at all. Look good at the fingers on the clutch and if there is bad damage from the howling / draging throwout bearing then you may need to do a clutch change. There will be some wear, that is to be expected. Look at the end of the input shaft. If there is serious wear, you probably should go on and pull the clutch and replace the pilot bearing. At any rate, get a small amout of grease to the pilot bearing. Repeat small amount. You don't want to lube the clutch just the pilot bearing.



Do you have a lineup shaft to reinstall the clutch? If you remove the clutch, you must have one to reassemble it. If / when the transmission is out, have someone who is knowlegable of those things do a check of the preload on the bearings. If the mileage is really only 65k and the transmission has shown no other sign of problems, you most likely don't need anything done to it.



I have 395k on my D350 with no real problems on the transmission or clutch. I have put in a throwout bearing and I have done a modest amount of repair to the Getrag. See the posts by Amikonis and others on the Getrag. If you are planning to do serious power upgrades, start saving for a NV4500 or NV5600 transmission. Save your money now on the clutch and do it at the time of the transmission swap. If you do the transmission changeout before you kill the Getrag, you will have something worth selling to those of us who are not BOMBing. I think the Sachs is as good as the aftermarket clutches 'up to a point'.



I know that the W series trucks can load the Getrag and other parts of the drive train a lot harder than the D series. That with the BOMBing will make the NV transmission / big clutch a must.



I was ask by a fellow TDR member if I thought he should not have gotten a diesel truck since he was not very 'mechanical'. My answer is 'don't be intimidated by the first brush with the problems that you will encounter'. This stuff will become routine and there really isn't that much to go wrong if you don't BOMB your truck. If you have BOMBing in mind, it doesn't matter what the truck is. You are about to learn about mechanical things.



The difficult shifting could be a number of things but could be draging from the clutch not clearing completely due to the throwout problem. Again you will have the transmission out and have a knowlegeable person look at the insides. You can never tell how the last owner treated the truck or mistreated perhaps. Get past the new stuff and you will love your truck for a lot of reasons.



1stgen4evr

James McPherson

 

[Tim1]

Welcome Mark, the clutch on our trucks is a good clutch with the horsepower we can squeese out of our pumps. Just reline the driven disc and go! Also overfill your gearbox by one quart, do a search, its posted. Oil is your choice,not 90wt. Most of us run a blend. Not to start any oil wars here. As stated, new throwout and pilot bushing (brass) and check springs on pressure plate. They say that the getrag is a good transmission, but I'll change to the nv4500 when it gives up. It saw the new gearbox in the shop and started working fine. We'll see. Tim

 

[sparks57]

Yes, overfilling is a MUST! As for the stock clutch, it is a very good unit! I plan on replacing mine soon, not because it's wearing out, but because I'll get it to slip pretty soon...



Needless to say, I got some goodies comming this month.

 

[1stgen4evr]

gear box oil level

If you have the truck on a lift, notice that the transmission is set at a considerable angle that has the fill hole low at the rear. The 'overfilling' that is suggested is not really overfilled for successful operation. It is rather just bringing the level to the point that is required to lube the front end of the transmission properly. To my knowledge there is no leak issue whatsoever with the "overfill".



As Tim1 suggests, no oil war here. I have 395k miles on a Getrag running aw85 gear oil. I have a NV4500 on my bench that was run out of synthroil and the significant point to me is that if you let it run out of lubrication, it doesn't matter what WAS in it. Be certain that you or someone checks the oil level at least as often as you change the engine oil.



Why doesn't someone sell a fill/check tube with dipstick for the manuals?



Viva La TDR



Love My Cummins

1stgen4evr

James McPherson

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

The Sachs is a good clutch, especially with the premium organic facing, and is a natural to put onto the first gen flywheel/Ram. When using an oilite bronze pilot bushing, install it dry, with no grease on the input shaft. I use green 609 Loctite betwen the pilot bushing and the flywheel bore.

 

[MBlanks]

First off, when I named this thread "Getrag Clutches" I meant as all clutches, not just the Sachs clutch that come installed. What I was really trying to find out was what the life span was on different clutches and if my stock clutch was possibly near replacement time. I forgot to mention that my truck now has 86k miles on it that I know is the correct mileage because the guy that owned it before me didn't drive it more than 5k miles a year.



When I bought the truck, the TDR member that sold it to me advised me about the overfilling of the Getrag by one quart. I currently am running 5w30 in it and try to check it often. I know that this truck was babied since it came from the factory and was not abused in any way. In fact, I have probably put more wear and tear on it since I bought it than it had in the first 13 years of it's life. In fact, when I bought the truck it didn't even have a trailer hitch and I had to install one just so I could pull my trailer.



If I pull the transmission to fix the throwout problem, then I imagine that I will probably go ahead and replace the clutch while I'm in it. I have a friend that owns a '93 W250 with 158k miles and he claims that he is on his 3rd Sachs clutch. Does that seem like an absurdly short life span for a stock clutch? Also, sometimes the throwout bearing noise will dissappear, then reappear a short while later. Does that indicate anything in particular?



I am actually an aircraft mechanic, but I have never gotten into working on the drivetrain on my vehicles. Therefore, working with transmissions and clutches is a new thing to me. I have worked on a number of automatics, but that is the limit of my experience. I have no problems with tearing the whole thing apart, however I would just like to know the best course of action from y'all that are experienced with these problems.



As far as "BOMBing" my truck, that may come in the future. I would like to make a few enhancements, especially the addition of an intercooler. However, I do not plan on trying to get a tremendous amount of horsepower/torque out of the truck, at least not for quite a while. If I do get into BOMBing, then I am going to try and see about getting a NV5600 to handle the power. For now, she's going to stay at 160 HP for a while.



Thanks for the help, and anymore comments will be greatly appreciated. And as far as loving my truck, I think I'm past that to the point that I if she had a ring finger I'd ask her to marry me . When I first start her up in the mornings I get the biggest grin on my face everytime.



Mark Blanks

 

[1stgen4evr]

clutches

[bearing noise will dissappear, then reappear a short while later. Does that indicate anything in particular?]



It sure does. Bearings will do that as they fail. The really loud time is when it is throwing something out. They don't ever recover and heal themselves. Like I said NOW. It can very quickly kill the clutch fingers.



As to the life of your friends clutch, the operator is everything on clutches. The sachs is a good clutch, period. The fwd CAN be used in such a way as to prematurely kill the clutch regardless of make. Your clutch with under 90k. I am just not believing it is worn out unless you or the previous owner drove with the pedal slightly depressed all the time. That is actually a problem as some folks 'ride' the clutch.



[actually an aircraft mechanic, but]



Hey Mark you cheated on us. Tricked us into thinking you were a novice. I know how much you worked to get that rating. You won't have any trouble doing the throwout. This is not as critical as a 747. You don't have to fly it either. I will bet that the clutch is OK. And I bet you are already aware that TDR is the best set of road worthyness directives in the world.



1stgen4evr

James

 

[MBlanks]

[Hey Mark you cheated on us. Tricked us into thinking you were a novice]



Well, I am a novice to working on the first gen CTD trucks. I have never been into cars and truck like I have airplanes and it's a whole different world.



[And I bet you are already aware that TDR is the best set of road worthyness directives in the world. ]



Now that is hilarious just because of how much pain airworthiness directives are. And yes, I have found TDR to be a tremendous resource, much more so than I thought it would be.



According to your advice, I will probably go ahead and at least fix the throwout bearing. However, I feel compelled to go ahead and put a new clutch in it if I back the transmission out anyway. However, per your advice, there is a place close by to get a SBC so I will wait until I have inspected it before I go drop $650. I'm just used to the fact that "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" does not apply in any way to aircraft. I may have to get used to it when I'm dealing with my own money and not some billion dollar company... .



I have no clue about the how the previous driver drove, although I know he wasn't a speed demon, but he could have been a clutch rider, ya never know. Guess we'll see in just a little bit.



Thanks tremendously for the help,



Mark Blanks

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

I'm real sorry to read that your Ram (= male sheep) lost his critical body parts and is now a ewe



A boat is "she"

A Ford or Chevy is "it"

A Ram is "HE"

 

[MBlanks]

Ram Gender

Well, I would tend to think of my Ram is a "she" because if I loved my truck this much and it was a "he" then I think I would feel like I was batting for the wrong team... . If you know what I mean...

 

[Timebomb]

I pulled my original clutch @105,000 miles. Its still had life left in the disk but the throughout bearing was gone. I replaced with a Luck Pro Gold cluch. After a recent trans rebuild (3 teeth off of 3rd and 5 teeth off of 4rth gears) I went ahead and replaced the clutch again putting another 85,000 miles on that first Luk clutch i was impressed with the bearing and disk condition. So i went with another Luk Pro Gold clutch. I think its a great clutch hasent ever slipped and for $361 you cant beat it..... Just my $0. 02

 

[dusthomps]

I currently have 235k on my stock clutch. When the transmission was pulled at 223k, it still looked good enough for me. I figure the factory original will make it 285-300k before needing replacement.





Dustin

 

[dpuckett]

My original clutch has 270K on it, and is going strong. Wish I could say the same for the transmission. Looks like a NV4500 or Eaton 7spd is in my summer plans. I had a LuK Pro Gold, and was less than enthused about it. Engaged harsher than stock and didnt hold any better. I still have the Sachs in my garage, waiting for my clutch to wear out. I know a guy who went 500K on a clutch. He delivered Cummins and Detroit engines, so it got a workout in its lifetime. ONe thing I will say about the clutches in these pickups is drive them about like a semi truck- give it no fuel as you engage the clutch- or very little if you are on a hill. Everytime I get in the company pickup (03 F150) I kill it twice before I can get it all choreographed correctly and not make it buck, jump, and puke.



Daniel

 

[Grey Wolf]

Approaching 278,000 on the OEM Sach's here, I have a rear main leak so it will come out soon. On my son's '90 with the '96 engine we put in a SBC and there is no comparison as far as i'm concerned. The SBC is so much more user friendly !

 

[JDMills]

Daniel,

What is this about a Eaton 7speed?

I was daydreaming about what the final form of my D350 might be some day and The thought of a medium duty transmission behind the Medium duty Engine, crossed my mind.

Is it a overdrive transmition?

Why do you consider that particular model?

I bet it is beyond my mechanical abilites, but I am curious never the less.

Jason