Good oil analysis results w/Amsoil 5W30, but. . .

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

HC,



For the 1st half of my 15W40 run I had RV injectors then at 10,000 miles on the oil I put in DD2s. It is interesting that from the point I put those injectors in the iron count increase was very small! And to top it off, I drove to LA via Las Vegas thru 100-105F weather pulling a flatbed at 75-80mph, pushing it pretty hard, and changed the oil about 3000 miles after this trip. I installed the 15W40 on Nov 26, 2000 and dumped it July 1st 2001. So it saw the maximum extremes (although winters are very mild here compared to other northern states, only got down to +10 on coldest night).



On the 5W30 the DD2s were in the whole time. The only towing this saw was about 100-150 miles with a 3600lb boat. Also, I ran a van Aaken CPC for roughly 4-5k of the change. So I was putting more power to the pavement

This oil went in July 1 2001 and came out just the other day, so it saw the extremes of weather too going through the hottest part of summer plus winter (mild). I drove to Las Vegas again in August and it was close to 110 there part of the time (but didn't tow) plus we had 3-4 days here around 105F.



Those darned guys at Oil Analyzers never faxed my report They are hard to get a hold of and when they do answer it's "yeah we'll get that right out to you. " I asked them twice besides stating it in bold letters on the info sheet I sent with the oil. I know the fax was working since no one else had trouble getting thru . . .

 

[PAYCHECK]

How much are you paying for the Delvac? I am putting out 12. 95 a gal. for the chevron delo 5/40 synthetic. is this a good price? i am waiting for my third test on this oil from the CAT lab here in town.

 

[Forrest]

4 Gal, with tax ... just shy of $100.

 

[PAYCHECK]

WHAT!

Are you telling me that Delvac synthetic is TWICE the price of Delo synthetic? :--) Why

 

[JJW_ND]

I have all fuel, expenses, parts, and miles loaded in a database. One has to deterine what is hard on oil, long hard towing with high HP or wintertime arctic driving and cold starts.



My hp was at 250 or so until the last 5W30 interval when it someup gained another 100HP.



Towing wise and months of oil in service:



-15K hard towing months of Nov - May on first 15W40 (Winter spring)

-11K hard towing months of May - Feb on 2nd 15W40 (Spring)

-15K hard towing months of Feb - Sep on 1st 5W30 (Summer)

-14K hard towing months of Sep - Mar on 2nd 5W30 (Winter)

-7K less towing months of Mar - Jan on 3nd 5W30 (yearround but very cold month of Dec)

-2K hardly towed months of Jan-March (year round with lots of hotrodding)



The two 15W40 and first two 5w30 were all about equal other then time of year. I have a oil temp gauge and have never seen over 115. But in December of 2000 I never hit 175 for over three weeks (average high for the month was -5).



I do notice allot more oil consumption (includes leaks and blowby) in the winter and almost none in the heat of summer.



Here are the extremes from 200K worth of sampling:

Highest Iron 120ppm (@ 25K on A5W30)

Highest lead of 21 (once on A15W40, and once on A5W30)

Had one PB2000 drop out of weight @6K on the oil with Visc100C of 12. 00

Highest Copper was the last sample with 72 ppm.

Highest Silicon was 53 (flagged) getting past a K&N.

Highest Aluminum was 9 (same time iron hit 120).

Highest soot was 0. 4%

Lowest TBN was 8. 5 on A15W40.



Most miles are running empty now with much higher HP.



Hard for me to choose 15w40 over 5W30. Winter up here would be 5W30 for sure. Hard pulling in July heat, I think I would rather have 15W40!



jjw

ND

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

I paid $21 something per gallon for the Delvac 1 so it was around $87. I get it from a distributor locally that also carrys Texaco.



PAYCHECK I am interested in what numbers you find on the Delo synthetic. Is it fully synthetic? From all the posts I saw about synthetic oil I guess there are a couple different classes of full synthetics, due to their base stocks. I'm not going to try and guess what the difference is but I guess the Delvac and Amsoil is basically the top-of-the-line stuff and the others are close but not quite there. Don't get me wrong I'm sure the PB is exellent oil, expecially since their standard oil is very good stuff.

Originally posted by JJW_ND

But in December of 2000 I never hit 175 for over three weeks (average high for the month was -5).

Holy Wheepoppers!!! Remind me to NEVER spend a winter in North Dakota!!!! It hasn't been below zero here for over 6 years now, and by that I am talking about overnight low temperatures!!

Originally posted by JJW_ND





Hard for me to choose 15w40 over 5W30. Winter up here would be 5W30 for sure. Hard pulling in July heat, I think I would rather have 15W40!



jjw

ND

Well buddy you've got the perfect oil for your dilemma in your crankcase right now, the 5W40 Delvac 1. Visibly it looks more viscous than the Amsoil 5W30 and its 100C vis shows that. Yet its cold pour point is about as cold or colder than the 5W30 (-65F I believe). As far as I know this is the only top of the line synthetic that has the best of both worlds.



From what I understand the downside of wide-range multigrade oils is they tend to fall out of viscosity range quicker as the miles rack up. So I guess we'll both see how this oil holds up!



Vaughn

 

[PAYCHECK]

I will post the numbers on the delo synthetic test,as soon as I get them. I am wondering about the differences 'tween' the two oils. We need one of the 'experts' to help us out on the Delo and Delvac syntetics too see if they are both top of the line or what? I know the regular Delo is good but you have me wondering about the syn. Delo. There is a BIG price difference betwwen the two,I hope the Delo is a 'top of the line' Full synthetic.

 

[gmorrison]

From a lube engineer's standpoint there is just no substitution for oil film thickness. Even in synthetics. I have seen performance issues with the synthetic 30W in other diesel engine designs which stress the oil more in the cam lobe areas; there were dramatic increases in cam lobe wear rates with the Amsoil 30W vs. Delvac 1 40W.

Delvac 1 has been around for 20+ years and is well proven (as is the Amsoil 40 weight) It flows to 60 degrees below zero yet provides full 40W viscosity at hot summer temperatures. Viscosity, viscosity, viscosity!!

George Morrison, STLE CLS

 

[cjohnson]

Paycheck,



My understanding is that the Delo synthetic is actually a hydro cracked, petro based oil. Essentially - VERY refined. Where as the Amsoil and Delvacs are "true" synthetic based oils. By definition, these hydro cracked oils can legally be called synthetic ie. Delo synthetic and Castrol Syntec.

I wouldn't argue that you are getting top quality sythetic oils with Amsoil and Mobil - that being said, my personal opinion is that you get more for your buck with Delo. I don't have much room to talk though as I don't run anything calling itself synthetic - just good old Delo 400. I think if Delo made a 15-40 synthetic I would jump on it - just not ready to pay the price of the other brands for my purposes. Again, I'm not saying that Amsoil and Mobil don't have a great product - there are too many people who can support the claims of the quality of these products. They just aren't for me at this time in my situation and opinion.



Hope this helps,



Craig

 

[PAYCHECK]

delo 5/40 synthetic

Craig, the Delo i am using is 5/40. it says fully synthetic on the gallon container. I need to check with Chevron to find out the Whole Truth on this Syn. Delo. I used Regular Delo before i switched to the synthetic, it worked good for me for years. Where are all the Experts on oil at? don? Help!

 

[cjohnson]

Trust me on this one - I'm almost positive it is actually a highly refined petro oil - a la Hydro cracking. Chevron invented the process as I understand it - and I bet they're pretty good at it. Following a lawsuit, the hydrocracked oils are permitted to call themselves fully synthetic as they maintain enough synthetic-like properties and performance criteria to be labeled synthetic. But like I said before, this doesn't mean it isn't good. If your analysis checks out good, take everything in to consideration - cost, performance etc. and make your own decision. You can make yourself nuts with this oil stuff if you're not careful.



Craig

 

[PAYCHECK]

Thanx!

I thank you for all the help and info. Went to Chevron sire and sent e-mail to the tech. I will find out What it is! The web site says Chevron synthetic Delo 400 5/40 is full synthetic base stock oil, so we shall see. Your Advice is Wise and Fully Appreciated!

 

[Sled Puller]

Originally posted by cjohnson

You can make yourself nuts with this oil stuff if you're not careful.



Craig

No kidding?Oo.

 

[PAYCHECK]

Delo FULLY synthetic

According to a Matthew Ansari @ Chevron Delo 400 5/40 synthetic is a Fully Synthetic base stock. Not a Hydro- cracked base. He says the new tests they have (surprise!) it out performs the Delvac 1. And delivers the SAME protection as the 15/40 Delo, with a lower pourpoint to make it better in colder weather. HMMM... ?

oil test on Delo 5/40 synthetic





lead..... -3

copper... -2

iron... . -34

sodium... -3

alum..... -3

silicon. . -5

chrome... -1

nickel... -1

moly..... -1

tin... ... -1



phosphorous... -1280

zinc... ... ... . -1490

calcium... ... . -3590



soot... ... . -. 8

oxidation allowed. . -13

sulfer allowed..... -23

water dilution... . -neg.

glycol... ... ... ... -neg.

water... ... ... ... . -neg.

Viscosity cst/100dgrC. . 13

Oil has 6005 miles on it with no add oil. There is no TBN number,What do you think?

 

[cjohnson]

Paycheck,

Interesting stuff. I heard from another source who appeared to be in the "know" that the Delo synthetic is a hydro cracked, petro based synthetic oil. I'm not going to argue with you because I'm sure that the guy told you this. I'm just wondering - by law, I don't think Chevron has to disclose the fact that the oil is petro based because "legally", it is a synthetic. If I remember correctly, Mobil took one or more oil companies to court on this and lost - as a result you have these hydro cracked oils being called synthetic. I'm sure someone with much more knowledge than myself will step in here and set the record straight.



What is interesting to me is the price discrepancy between the Delo synth. and others(amsoil,delvac). Why the diff in price, and how can Chevron sell the "same type" of oil for a mere fraction of the proce? It will be interesting to get to the bottom of this - just for fun. Oo.



Craig

 

[DocStressor]

Paycheck -- Regardless of what the tech/salesperson told you, Chevron 5W-40 synthetic is a Group III base stock (hydrocracked) oil . Group III base oils are much less expensive to produce than Group IV/V POA-polyolester stocks. Chevron, Conoco, and Petro Canada pass on the saving to the customer. Castrol and a few others do not and charge Group IV/V prices. The posted oil analysis results for the Chevron product are typical of most any oil after 6K in the Cummins. As many folks have posted on this board, you generally don't see differences in wear rates between oils unless you go out to extended drain interval. How the truck is driven is a greater factor than the oil's ability to protect the engine. How well Chevron synthetic holds up in the Cummins beyond 7. 5 K is still unknown. But the oil does hold up for 10K in VW TDIs. This is a good product and a good value for year round use in Northern climates.

 

[PAYCHECK]

Craig and lee, Thanx for the help. I too was seriously wondering about thr price discrepency. That is what first started me 'thinking' on this oil. I really wish that someone smarter than I would read the 'Data Sheets' on the Chevron/Texaco web site and be able to tell 'What' their oil Really is. I was wondering if the Iron was a tad too high?

 

[gmorrison]

Yes, as per previous posts, the Chevron 'synthetic' is actually a mineral based Group III oil, as with the Shell Rotella Synthetic,the Petro Canada and Catrol synthetic. All Group III mineral oil based products.

As with 'some companies are passing along the savings', this is an area that really gripes me. Just a year ago one of the above companies was selling the same oil for $4. 10 a gallon which, after the Castrol decision allowing Group III's to be called synthetic, is now charging $14. 00 a gallon for!!! Same oil, except now it says 'synthetic' on the label, where a year ago it did not... I think this falls more in line with 'Gouging' rather than 'saving'...

George Morrison, STLE CLS

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

PAYCHECK, how expensive is the Chevron stuff you are using?



One reason I run long drains is to help make up for the expensive oil. I go 20,000 and feel that is a safe distance but far enough to get my money's worth.



But if if what you are using is a good syn oil for a lot less then you could afford to go 10,000 miles between changes, a reasonable distance, and basically be running fresher oil and not paying any more. You'd probably get better protection overall than I am getting running 20,000 miles on Delvac 1 or Amsoil.



Vaughn

 

[PAYCHECK]

Vaughn, I am paying 12. 95 a gallon. But like gmorrison says Delo 400 is a group 3 oil, it might not be as good as the Delvac. It seems that he sure knows what he is talking about!