Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Good ole hard start!

[SpicyJam]

What tank guts? By the way how much is the core on that VP? Just wondering in case it gets lost... ... ... ... ... ... ..... lol. :--)

 

[TurboTweaker]

Spicy,

The Vp you so speak of has been taken out of service as a parts donor! Oo. go find your own! sorry i was sniffing paint fumes on the shop floor that will get to you after a while. :-laf



The Fat"drops-a-lot"Kid

Andy

 

[SpicyJam]

Paint fumes? What fumes? You work right next to me, I smell nothing . I know where the pump is at, also know where your truck is at. Since I have the feeling I will be working it tomorrow, and since you are so attached to that old VP then I will just take out your new one while your transmission is going in. Don't worry I will give ya mine, it's been broke in... ... ... ... . :-laf

 

[TurboTweaker]

Spicy,

you work at least 75ft away from me and we do have a good hvac system, that is if jonny feels like doing his job so you wouldnt smell it any ways. i dont want you pump i like my new one for the 17 mi. i drove it. go ahead and rob stuff off my old pump i dont care.



The Fat"Drops-a-lot" Kid

Andy

 

[SpicyJam]

Thanks "drops a lot", I was going to take it weather you liked it or not... ... ... ... ..... lol. So tell me you get home and this is what you do? Get right on the computer?

 

[SpicyJam]

Well back to this subject. After all I have done, and the truck still starting like crap, here is what happend this morning. Lets back up a sec, lastnight looking over injector lines, I found that that number 6 was loose again, ya I have tightened it before, it was wet under the nut again. This time it was a half a turn out. So this morning, SOS, hard start. Unlike starts before, the engine light came on. Ya I set a code, well at least I set the code 1693 with nothing else following, letting me know one has been set. After cycling the key a couple of times the light went out, the companion code is still there so until I get the scanner on it I am really wondering what was set. In a way I hope the VP is junk, this would be great to see if a slow death of a VP is all the head ache I am going through. I still need though, to remove line 6 and make sure the line is not cracked or the injector tube is screwed, cause a week ago I just tightend that line. At this point I am seriously thinking a new set of injectors new injector lines and tubes, and a VP. Starts hard after that who knows... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...

 

[TurboTweaker]

Spicy,

You know where to drop those old injectors when your done with them right? anyways do you have those fitings for the fass for a fuel pressure gauge?? might need them soon.



The Fat"drops-a-lot" Kid



Andy

 

[jrobinson2]

Bad ECM?

OK, I went out this morn to head for work, this is what happened. It's 49 degrees out this morning and the wait light was just a quick blurp on the dash.

How to test an ECM. Simple with your truck...

Disconnect the plug from your original ECM ( leave it in place no need to take it out) and plug in the ECM you're going to buy.



Now turn the ignition on ( Don't start the engine ) and check what the Wait To Start Engine light is doing. It HAS to work like it normally does. That means, in warm weather it has to come on for 2-3 seconds and then turn off. In colder climates it will also cycle the grid heathers and then turn off.



Very short cycling of the light, longer than normal, always on, never on, on after some time or worse flashing light are all clear signs of an ECM with hardware problems.

unfortunatly now needing to follow hard start threads, Jared

 

[SpicyJam]

jrobinson2, After changing the batteries cause the drivers side was dead, I have no more issues with that wait light. It does what it is suppose too now. Next on the list is changing the return spring in the VP. So far every place that was leaking is now dry, for now.



Drops alot, ya I know where to take them. I will have the fittings in my truck tomorrow. You have time to run out this way? If not I will drop them off at the same place I drop the injectors off. I need to get over there anyway to see what code I set anyhow.

 

[GIT-R-DONE]

As far as the FASS pressure being too high..... I had put the wrong spring in mine, ( FP Gauge was bad ) , took it to the dealers for a fuel pressure test and found out I had been running 26. 5 lb of pressure for 3 weeks. I will say I could not tell the difference between a high pressure and a low pressure system. I had no start trouble with the high pressure on mine, and I dont understand why some would have the hard start problem and others wouldnt.



With that said, I sounds like you are bleeding air back into the system after shutdown... . but where at , I dont know. If you have been having trouble with # 6 line, maybe replace it and see if that helps. Maybe there is a hair line crack in it... something along that line.

 

[SpicyJam]

GIT-R-DONE, I agree with the bleed back as I keep finding leaks. First number 6 line, and so far that one is staying dry. Now I have a leak at my fuel sending unit. So tonight that gets taken care of. As for the higher pressure going to the VP, well here is my understanding.



On start up when the fuel pump is fired up, if the pressure is too high it can create the 3 plungers to lift off the eccentric in the VP. Cranking the motor causes pressure to reseat the plungers, this is when it would start. Now this has not been my case, but is was a option. Since I pulled the fuse a couple of times on the FASS, so I had no start up pressure has offered no effect. Not to say that it can't happen to others, when the truck is running it would not matter how much pressure or flow going into the VP, since extra fuel would return anyway and not cause the truck to run any different. I am sure that my truck is just bleeding back fuel, since the moment the truck has been fired for the day it starts right up as long as it has not sat for more than 8 hours.



As for the code set, well that ended up being volts to high to the MAP sensor, code has been cleared and not set again. So, guess my VP is still hanging in there.

 

[Hohn]

Wow! I'm having flashbacks reading your posts, SJ!



For a LONG time a had a really aggravating hard-to-start condition.



With my truck, it would always startup when warm or recently ran. But if it sat more than 20min, it would take a little cranking.



If it sat overnight, it would take a LOT of cranking!!! I was losing prime-- somehow.



This happened before I installed my Max-flow kit, so even though the MF leaked a little at first, it wasn't to blame. It actually seemed to "fix" the problem for while.



THEN I FOUND OUT WHY MY TRUCK WAS LOSING PRIME!! Or so I thought.



My first clue was when I refueled one time and the filler cap flew off and almost killed me. Ok, it was tethered, but-- WHY WAS THE TANK PRESSURIZED?



I'd notice the tank hissing when I shut down the truck! Where was it coming from? THE VENT!



But how was the tank getting pressurized (more than just a little-- a LOT) when the vent was functioning??



I can't tell you now insane this drove me.



So I attacked it logically. If there's pressure of that magnitude, it HAS to be cylinder pressure.



So how can compression pressure from the cylinder get into the fuel return? Leaky injector?



I STILL don't know for sure. But my problem went away after I loosened torque on the injector holddown bars! I didn't have them very tight, but it was apparently enough to malign the feedtube in the injector and somehow allow pressurized air to get into the fuel return from the head.



Justin

 

[SpicyJam]

That is kind of a strang thought, last night we were just talking about my fuel delivery tubes, as a possible cause. One other thing we are thinking, is that I may have a blown head gasket. Since the truck is seeing 40 pounds of boost from time to time, on a ETH I would not put it past the gasket to be cracked. I will listen for pressure in the tank but have not had any problem like that, that I know of. I do know for the last 2 days when I start my truck I can now hear the coolent running through the heater core in the cab. Kind of a sick sound, so here in a couple of hours I am going to look at the coolent level, and see if there is any oil in the overflow tank, may get my fire rings in faster than I think, :-laf . Anyway like I said all the help in the world is welcome. Trust me I am going to find this problem one way or the other.

 

[SpicyJam]

Ok here I hope is the last update on this matter with my truck. Well I will probably haveo one more this Thursday.



Last night while at the shop fabbing up a set of twin turbos on a donor truck, the converstation began. I was talking about my hard start with my partner, and all I have done to find it, and even made mention of the delivery tubes. I now have a new set of tubes sitting on the back seat of the truck waiting to go in with the Jammer 4's. As we kept talking over future plans with my truck and the way the twin set up was going, we discussed the way the drag comp on setting 5x5, and how it affected the timing so bad on a ETH. When I go to level 5 I have never moved the sub levels in that mode. We were talking about that maybe I ought to try 5x2 or 5x3, thought it was worth a shot.



So on my way home feeling good how these turbos are going on the set up, I decided at 3am would be a good time to try comp at 5x2 or 5x3, I decided 5x2 would work to see if truck would still fuel to 3200 like it does on 5x5. Yep, it did and what a new kick to the ETH. So with a smile on my face and the road to myself I decided to run the 6spd through its paces. A 1/2 mile from my place I gave it a run that I couldn't believe. With the outside air temp at 39 degrees, the truck raced on. Until I hit 6th, speedo showed 85 coming into 6th and then it happend, I glanced over at EGTs and 1250 was about to fade away, 42psi of boost was starring at me on the gauge. Then BOOM!!!!!!!. Smoke everywhere from under the hood, truck shaking like it had a blown tire. With clutch pedal in and other foot on the brake, I got the wounded beast turned into the driveway. Let it idle the best it could while I looked under the hood. As the truck seemed to cool down while running I saw all kinds of fluid running down the back side of the engine, mind you it is dark out so fluid is what I saw. Once the truck re-gained somewhat of a normal sound I shut it down. Looked under the hood again, I thought that maybe I should hit the key to see if it starts, sure enough first hit fired right up. Hmmmmmmmmmm I will wait till I wake up to see what the problem is.



Well, morning hits and after looking into the radiator to see if I had any signs of the headgasket gone, I had seen the nice green antifreeze had now a Exxon Valdeze oil slick in there. So fire rings and bigger studs are going in next week, need them anyway for the twins, the new delivery tubes, a new set of injectors as well. If this does not cure the hard start problem, since I think I may have cracked the gasket some time ago, ... ... ... well I don't know what I will do but start a new thread on here. I will post a few pics on here of what I find out.



So fat kid you just may have your DD2's sooner than you wanted, bummer huh? I am excited to put fire rings in. It is a good feeling to get to the end of the hard start issue... ... ... ... ... ... ..... I hope, there is nothing left for me to check... ... ... ... ... . is there?

 

[Amianthus]

How's your tone wheel? Ha!

 

[SpicyJam]

Ya , know that isn't even really funny. But in reality I would hope the one on the cam is fine, sure beats having to pull a crank if it does go out. Ya, am grinding salt, sorry... ... ... ... . .



Just a bit of an update, well head gasket looked good when I took it out, too bad the head bolts don't fair the same. They are on super stretch, so the whole head was lifting off the block under full boost.

Fire ring grooves getting cut right now, and thank you again Amianthus for the use of the cutter, I owe ya. Studs will be in tonight and rest of the parts on too. Should be up and running in a few, lets see, found 2 bad delivery tubes, so new set going in as well as new injectors. If I still have a hard start I will be ordering a VP from Amianthus. Good to keep him on his toes.

 

[SpicyJam]

IT'S GONE



After all the the work looking into this, the hard start is gone. This week I spent my time in removing the head to fire ring the truck. Along with fire rings, I also put in a new set of delivery tubes, and injectors. The 8x10 injectors work great, I like them, although now I am now in need of twin turbos. The stock HY35 on my truck is just blowing hot air, and is fairly useless with the set up I have now.

On the way home yesterday I punched the throttle and had the drag comp at 5x2, I couldn't see behind the truck with all the smoke . On the other hand it never cleaned up, and my poor HY was pushing 45psi, IMO it is worthless boost, since the HY should never see above 36psi. So with running on injectors only, my EGT's climb fast, but the seat of the pants feel is great. So I think within the next 2 weeks I may get the twins on, shall see.

Like I said the best news is that the hard start is gone. In looking at the delivery tubes I took out I had 2 bad ones. So the conclusion that I can come up with as far as a hard start, is that the fuel was leaking back, like I had thought, and changing the batteries only saved me from this problem down the road.

 

[SpicyJam]

:{ :{ :{ :{ IT"S BACK :{ :{ :{ :{

Well so much for thinking I got this thing licked. One week to the day and no hard start, last night truck acted up. This morning same ole crap, crank and crank. With all I have done, can anyone tell me if there is a sensor I need to check out for this? I have no codes set, same as always it will start and seem to run fine when it is going. After work I am going to look everything over one more time and hope I see something. I am so frustrated with this start up thing, it really put a damper on my Friday.

 

[Marco]

Well maybe it's worth nothing...



I installed the FASS in my truck last week. Now when I recived it first thought, great piece of craftsmanship...

Install was reasonably simple but...



A diesel engine with a hard start after it's been sitting for a while is more often than not an air leak somewhere. I think you all know that.



Back to the FASS. They provide it with that push on style rubber that does not need clamps. In fact they say it holds up to 300Psi. Great, but what happens under vacuum? OK, not really a vaccum but when you shut down the engine, the fuel in the lines wants to get back to the lowest point due to the gravity. That means a little negative pressure in the lines.



Will air leak into the line(s)under that circumstance???



I really dunno but I've double clamped every push on thinghy...

Better save than sorry...

So far, no hard starts here.



Marco

 

[SpicyJam]

Thanks Marco, makes sense. But what doesn't make sense is that after fire ringing the head, new delivery tubes and injectors all was fine for a week. I am just hoping that something just came loose. I hope so, cause I am heading out right now to install twin turbos on it now. So I hope I see some type of leak somewhere. I have kind of out ruled the FASS, Since I have helped install several of them I am the only one having problems. I have talke dto Brad a few times about this and I think I can really rule it out.