Hard Start Problem

[GiesJ]

Did a search and checked the FAQ but can't really come up with much, if you could point me in the right direction I sure would appreciate it!



My father-in-law has a 93 dually with 429K+ on the ticker :--) Lots of hard Wyoming ranch miles on her.



Hard start problem. Starter is turning, amp gage moving (glow plugs right?) and he has to crank for a long time. Sometimes it goes and sometimes he needs to pop the clutch. When he does pop the clutch (rolling down a hill or a pull from another vehicle) it starts immediately. He does see heavy black smoke on hard start days, but the hard start problem is not consistent nor does the temp have anything to do with it.



Some history - years ago he had to replace some of the injectors and coincidentally the same problem went away. Not sure if that has anything to do with it. Has had a decent mechanic look at it a couple different times last year and could not track anything down.



He is going to change the fuel filter and let me know the status. I don't think it is that easy. I'm 2K miles away right now but thought you 1st Gen guys could help me out. Let me know what other information I might provide to help.

Really appreciate any ideas...

Jason

 

[MotleyCrueCab]

Jason, first off these trucks don't use glow plugs, they actually have a heated intake grate mounted between the head and intake elbow (mainfold). It sounds to me like the problem is deffinatly fuel related, while i have never had this problem with a cummins it does occur fairly often in older vehicals. I would suggest cleaning the entire fuel system( filter, and some sort of additive). And check to make sure there are no leaks in any of the lines or by the pump. If there is even a small leak, fuel pressure will blead out and cuase hard starting. If no leaks are evident and it is hard starting try pumping it manually (the lever on the pump). ANd see if that helps. Hopefull some of the other guys will chime in on this one too, but this should give you a good place to start. Good Luck

 

[GiesJ]

Motley -

Thanks! I am not familiar with the 1st Gens at all. I was aware of the grid heaters on my truck and forward. Learn something every day!

He is going to swap the filter and we run an additive/anti-gel as we have a several hundred gallon diesel storage tank on the ranch. I don't understand how when he pops the clutch it fires right up. I would have thought (dangerous I know) that if it was a fuel problem, that problem would exist in the same fashion when you give her a push/pull.

Thanks! Anyone else that can help or has experienced this??

J

 

[DieselBuzz]

FYI the lift pump is down and to the right of the fuel filter on the engine block. the lever is on the bottom right side. When your done using it pull the lever all the way up into a detent so that it stays up.

If your Dad did not replace all the injectors the last time it gave him problems I would imagine that the older ones are sluggish or sticking by now. Running lots of fuel treatment is probably the easiest way to try to treat it. Good Luck

 

[boatpuller]

Maybe he needs new contacts in the starter so that it gets a good connection, might not be turning over fast enough?



Just something else to check since it starts right up if you dump the clutch.

 

[GiesJ]

Boatpuller - thanks. I previously rulled out the starter cause it was turning over hard enough. Perhaps not. It's an inexpensive enough test.

Anybody else?

 

[kad]

Ref hard start problem,



Ditto the injector check... if that fixed the problem last time?

I would also check all the electricals involved... batt(s), starter etc...

If the truck is getting fueled from the big storage cell it might be worth checking the tank for "growth". I know the diesel boats I've worked on had to have their tanks periodically cleaned of algae etc... and after an outing in a lively sea the Racors needed service. My rig has suffered through plenty of ranch work on stock injectors... my only 'hard/no' starts have come from a fouled filter or a cut-off solenoid that went bad. This doesn't explain the ability to clutch-dump start but hope it helps.

kad

 

[GiesJ]

Thanks for the replies.

TTT - I am confused as to why the push/pull start is no problem. Only thing I think that could point to is the starter right?? Do I use the same replacement starter contacts for the 93 as I did in my 98. 5?? Thanks.

 

[GiesJ]

TTT - Anybody?

Started up for him fine the other day, hitched to the horse trailer and went inside for a minute. Came back out and she wouldn't fire.

 

[GiesJ]

Changed Fuel Filter and it did it to him again within the day. Anybody help??

 

[GiesJ]

2 Months Later - OK - put in Larry B's starter contact. Battery looks great and is only a couple years old. Truck is still giving us the problem.



It does start more regularly now, but we still have the problem of no start/pull required. Sometimes when it does start it really stumbles and needs a good blip of the throttle to clear up the smoke and smooth the idle.

Somebody point me in the right direction, please. Could this problem be related to the solenoid that I have heard about? I am 1st Gen Clueless so if anyone could at least send me in the right direciton that would be great.



I am worried that we will just start throwing parts at this problem and not get her fixed. .

I appreciate any input.

 

[WJune]

Sounds like the problems I was having with air getting into fuel system, loss of prime. Simple to check, get a clean tank of 5 gallon or more, sit it in bed of truck, run 2 fuel lines, suction line to lift pump and return line to same off engine near the lift pump. You can disconect your factory lines which are along the frame, across from lift pump, or put a T in with switch like a dual tank setup, or just squeeze the hose shut going to factory tank. The factory hoses probably need replace anyway. First time you do this there will be some air in new line to work through, thats why a T is nice for quick switching with engine running. This will tell you if there is a leak from lift pump back to factory tank without dropping tank an replacing all lines, hoses etc. If your truck has rust, age on hoses, or rough off road use, a leak is very possible. Good luck.

 

[GiesJ]

WJune - Thanks for the info. When the truck won't light up, we can push/pull and pop the clutch and she starts immedietly. This behavior led me to believe that fuel delivery is not the problem. Thoughts?

Thank you,

 

[DonTX]

Sure sounds a lot like my problems. What I did to eliminate the fuel line question, was to install a DAVCO filter. This eliminates the original filters, allows you to SEE if there are bubbles in the suction line, and also allows you to start and run the engine feeding from the DAVCO unit by gravity feed. Add a pressure gauge and you can always know what the fuel situation to the IP is at a glance. Davco stuff here if you had not heard of them: http://www.davcotec.com/fp382.htm

For what it is worth, I have finally decided to pull and rebuild the IP, eliminated everything else.