Heads Up possible dead pedal fix.

[SnoKing]

So i'm guessing that based on what i'm hearing is the dead pedal comes from when it is searching for the correct passing gear?

Not really, it is claimed to happen happen at very low speed attempting to make a left turn with on coming traffic. Given the the shifting of the Aisin is controller by the Aisin computer and the 68RFE is controlled by the PCM, it has to be and engine or VGT turbo issue. SNOKING

 

[MJWenrich]

I don't have a hint of hesitation with my 325 HP 2004.5 with an auto. Some (most) 2013-2016 trucks don't have an issue. SOME of us do. There must be a common problem we have that RAM does not care to address even though we have filed the gov't complaint. Maybe because nobody died as yet or as far as we know. Others can place the blame all over the map on this issue but it probably will be solved by the after market at more expense to us. It was partially solved with the BD diesel part but not all of it and not at all at the upper end.

Something I did not mention before is that when the go pedal is gently pushed when up at highway speed, I get immediate acceleration. When in cruise, and under 65 MPH, the drive train drops 3 MPH before speeding up and drops a gear. Much like when you want all or most of the power. Above 65-70 the lag is less and no dropping into 5th. Guess the machine is just responding to my driving habits from before based on earlier comments. Can't be anything wrong with the truck.

 

[GCecchetto]

GCecchetto, I see your point ,Think about it this ,You need boost and fuel to make power W/O soot, previous generation could dump fuel and smoke, NOT SO with 4 gens, the system must produce clean power couple that with the power these engines have down low will break shafts or cause jerk/bucking, So the delay allows the boost to be a fraction ahead of the fuel, once it lights they scoot. in reality it just feels like FOREVER but the delay is mandatory for many reason(s) .Yes both My Big Rams have this its call TQ management, My Ecodiesel does not have this and that little 3.0 spanks My big Rams when it comes to being quick The ED is 3.0 3.92 8-Speed Banks Bullet, Big Rams 3500 SRW 3.42 Aisin Stryker modded Pump/rail.

Respectfully, not buying it. I know the truck has torque management, but managing the torque doesn't, or at least shouldn't, mean nullifying the accelerator pedal for seconds. It should just smoothly deliver the power the drive train can handle until sufficient speed is reached that the drive train can handle the full torque delivery. Please don't try to tell me that's to complex, the onboard computers perform much more complex throttle management all the time via the stability control system. Burry you foot in the throttle going around a wet corner, what happens? The stability control system smoothly backs of the throttle till the tires stop spinning, and if you've really stepped the back end out, is working the brakes independently at each wheel to straighten you out. And no, it isn't because the computer can't correct for the pedal being depressed quickly. The computer is capable of making all the corrections much faster than we are. The system is screwed up, at least in some of our trucks.

I find it funny how people accept different things that have issues on other folks trucks, like the totally buggy uconnect system, but for some reason the dead pedal issue gets treated with a "my truck is fine so you as the driver must be at fault, not the truck" mentality. Think I'm done with this thread now. My truck goes in for a massive list of issue for the dealer to try to sort through on the 21st. It will be so nice to be off for 2 weeks during the holiday's and spend it with no vehicle, and effing around with a dealer trying to get a bunch of intermittent electrical/computer issues , along with some mechanical issues resolved. I can't imagine how nice it would be to not get asphyxiated in the cab of my truck and drive around in the cold and rain with the windows open every time it goes into regen.

 

[TCDiesel]

We'll I guest the next level is necessary, For anyone trying to identify that this condition exist , here's How, Record the time, date, mileage, that it occur. Take truck to dealership, the on board memory is capable of 100s of pages of data, You need to know the language in order to understand the data ,The data can be download and sent to RAM, they will be able to view the data form the sensors behavior if the condition exist the data will show the delay.



I have download the info myself its 100s of pages long. Next time I have the time I will post just a few pictures of the data.

You can't hide anything form the data (and I mean anything) it will clearly show if the delay is their or NOT.

Just think of it this way, if the delay did exist someone like Myself could download the data at the any incident occurred, if the incident involved a crash you could have evidence , and Ram could be liable, it would be damaging in the court of law.

 

[sag2]

We'll I guest the next level is necessary, For anyone trying to identify that this condition exist , here's How, Record the time, date, mileage, that it occur. Take truck to dealership, the on board memory is capable of 100s of pages of data, You need to know the language in order to understand the data ,The data can be download and sent to RAM, they will be able to view the data form the sensors behavior if the condition exist the data will show the delay.



I have download the info myself its 100s of pages long. Next time I have the time I will post just a few pictures of the data.

You can't hide anything form the data (and I mean anything) it will clearly show if the delay is their or NOT.

Just think of it this way, if the delay did exist someone like Myself could download the data at the any incident occurred, if the incident involved a crash you could have evidence , and Ram could be liable, it would be damaging in the court of law.

You must have a different scanner than the dealers do. Dealers can record data up to a total of 120 seconds, 60 before an event and 60 after. But it is not recording all the time. A data recording template has to be set up with the data you want to see and the customer has to trigger the event recording. But you are correct, the data does not lie and it will show if there is in fact a concern. The only live data that is automatically recorded is 5 seconds before an air bag deployment, and it is limited to a few dozen points of data. There is freeze frame data saved automatically but only associated with a fault code maturing.

 

[TCDiesel]

You must have a different scanner than the dealers do. Dealers can record data up to a total of 120 seconds, 60 before an event and 60 after. But it is not recording all the time. A data recording template has to be set up with the data you want to see and the customer has to trigger the event recording. But you are correct, the data does not lie and it will show if there is in fact a concern. The only live data that is automatically recorded is 5 seconds before an air bag deployment, and it is limited to a few dozen points of data. There is freeze frame data saved automatically but only associated with a fault code maturing.

That's what I always thought, Next Time I hook up to My 15 I will take a snap shot of all the pages, I scroll thru at lease 50 pages that last time I check in late NOV. It did warn Me about be FCA approval and should only be used by them. Have you ever seen that popup? if not I think your dealership secure sever is not allowing the viewing. At My Dealership we restricted the Techs form certain viewing and limited PIN#s. If I still had ownership I wouldn't even mention it ,but since I sold My % FCA has NO hold/control on Me.

 

[sag2]

Are you using wi-Tech? If so there is a bunch of live data you can see, but it does not record it.

 

[TCDiesel]

Are you using wi-Tech? If so there is a bunch of live data you can see, but it does not record it.

I never thought of that, I will check, it symbols and markings. like T18, IK47,#6*.

 

[BD-Hector]

I took your BD TSB questions to our engineers

Here is what they have come back to me for you all:


Background – Torque Management:

Torque management is solely an artifact of the programming within the powertrain control module. Manufactures program newer vehicles to reduce the allowable torque output for a number of reasons including but not limited to reduced driveline shock, reduced strain on the transmission and reduced engine exhaust emissions. This aids both reducing the manufacturer’s warranty costs as well as increasing engine peak output while not exceeding the torque limits of the transmission and driveline components in the lower gears. This has become increasingly important as vehicle manufacturers continue to complete in the horsepower and torque figure arena. This torque reduction occurs during a plethora of conditions including if the vehicle is stationary, the transmission is currently changing gears, if the vehicle is in top gear, if the engine temperature exceeds safe limits and many other reasons.

With sufficient technological capabilities, a powertrain control module may be modified by altering the calibration tables that are referenced in the operating system programming. This process is usually referred to a tuning or altering the calibration. It is then theoretically possible to reduce the torque management or eliminate it entirely. This is very rarely done fully or correctly as there are many factors at play, for example the transmission control strategy may signal the engine controller to reduce torque, which leads to tuning both modules or completely rewriting the operating system of the engine controller; there are so many torque management tables in modern vehicle computers it is often not possible to map all of them out. For this reason control module tuning or recalibrations often do not correctly increase the desired torque and the torque management tables in the controller but instead simply increase injector duration to simulate this effect, often in conjunction with some torque management changes. This is why some will still find improvements with an add on like the BD Throttle Sensitivity Booster even with a tune.


BD Throttle Sensitivity Booster:

This product connects to the accelerator pedal position sensor (APPS) also known as the throttle position sensor. The BD module then alters the signals from the accelerator pedal to the powertrain control module. The powertrain controller uses these signals to look up the desired torque that the driver is demanding and de-rates it according to its torque management program. The BD module manipulates the torque demand signals so that they ramp up faster than normal. This means that although the torque management is still enabled and still limiting power output to the same level, the driver is able to realize all the torque the powertrain control module will allow, rather than a portion of it as may be the case with a slower responding torque demand signal input.

At the end of the day, the BD Throttle Sensitivity Booster will help get you up on power quicker but does not eliminate torque management and does not increase total power. Thus it is warranty safe and will not alter your vehicles exhaust emissions – something that no aftermarket tune or recalibration can provide.


Regarding fuel rail modifications:

We have no empirical data to support physical modifications to the fuel system on a late model Cummins engine will in any way reduce the apparent lack of acceleration or torque management experienced. If anything, it may be a detriment as there is an increased risk of foreign material ingress, and the feedback control of the powertrain controller may be jeopardized, leading to less consistent fuel rail pressures.
The fuel system is a high pressure direct injection common rail setup. It uses closed loop PID control over injection pressure to ensure that regardless of the size of the restrictions in the fuel system, the high pressure pump output will compensate and maintain fuel rail pressure. Additionally, if the fuel rail pressure does deviate up or down from the desired level this does not mean the engine will receive more or less than the correct amount of fuel. The program in the controller is to adjust fuel injection duration to increase duration if rail pressure decreases to ensure consistent quantity delivery.
From our testing, we have seen lags in fuel pressure response during tip-in on modified vehicles with very large fuel demands due to large injectors and increased injection duration. However, the quantity of fuel required at initial take off is very minimal when compared to wide open throttle operation where the engine may be operating at a pressure ratio of 2:1 rather than 1:1, high engine speed and the increased allowable torque fuel demand may be eight times higher. We have on the other hand noted improvements in this transient area with using higher output high pressure fuel pumps but this is not a requirement on a stock vehicle.

 

[MJWenrich]

Well Hector, I certainly appreciate the detailed explanation and from what I can understand, it makes sense. What does not make sense to us with the problem is why a few (at least only a few have documented it here) have a severe lag problem and others do not. It would tend to make you think we have a bad control module compared to the rest but RAM has not addressed this. We know from May Madness, their field reps are aware of the problem but nothing has been done to remedy it. I like your product but as I mentioned before, it does not help much in the upper three gears. At least on my rig. Certainly makes it safer entering traffic though and takes most of the lag out of the lower gears. Even 4th and 5th are better when you are already there but the lag is still there on wide open power demand. Thanks for the feedback and maybe some day there will be a complete repair for this but I don't expect it from RAM.

Of note, I got an email from them (after completing a survey and complaining about this), saying that customer service contacted the dealer where I purchased the truck and reported that I have not brought it in for repair according to their records. Well duh, the selling dealer is 220 miles from me. If they had checked my vin they should have seen that I have taken it to a dealer closer to me twice for this issue. Once a flash was done for a slow turbo boost problem and another time a mechanic rode with me. No cure. They also gave me an 800 number to call which I will do to try to set up an appointment with a factory rep. If anything comes of that I will post an update.

 

[GCecchetto]

Thought I would post a quick update on my truck. Two weeks ago it went in to the dealer, and was there for three days. A bunch of software updates were done and it is amazing how much crap was sorted out. Relative to this thread, I posted earlier that I thought the stability control system was playing a big role in the dead pedal issues I experience in my truck. One of the software updates done on my truck was for the recall on the stability control system. I'm happy to say that the dead pedal issue in my truck is much less of a pain in the *** now. It's still there, mainly due to the torque management now I think, but now I can stick the truck into a corner without the throttle going away. It also seems that the quick release of the pedal, and then back on issue is lessened. If you haven't yet had the update for the stability control system recall, I recommend having it done asap.

Oh, a side note, I was right, the engine rear main seal on my truck is leaking, so it goes back in tomorrow to have the trans and t-case dropped out to replace the seal. Not real happy about that level of work happening on a 1 year old truck.

 

[SnoKing]

You should fill out a profile and sig line so we know the year of your truck. SNOKING

 

[DonFitzwater]

GCcecchetto, glad they got some of your's resolved. I had the stability control update done but it didn't seem to touch my dead pedal. While I had the truck I learned to "drive around" the problem. Any time I had friends drive it, they would always ask me what was wrong with it. Not my problem any more, the new 6.4 Hemi scoots when the skinny pedal gets stomped on.

 

[GCecchetto]

You should fill out a profile and sig line so we know the year of your truck. SNOKING

Your wish is my command. If it worked.

 

[SnoKing]

68RFE

Snoking

 

[Cummins12V98]

^^^ picky picky picky

My turn, LB or SB?

 

[GCecchetto]

68RFE

Snoking

Yep, I know. Typo, just switched my work computer from 18.5" laptop down to a 13.5" Surface Book for ease of mobility and I'm still adapting to the mini keyboard

 

[GCecchetto]

^^^ picky picky picky

My turn, LB or SB?

You guys obviously need something else to do.

 

[SnoKing]

WORK computer?????? We are retarded and have lots of time on our hands!!!!! SNOKING

 

[GCecchetto]

WORK computer?????? We are retarded and have lots of time on our hands!!!!! SNOKING

Nice, I have another 6 years to go before I can be retarded.