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Guns, Bows, Shooting Sports, and Hunting homeland security on the road

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Robert Patton declined to print this in the TDR magazine but I think it fits very well with this forum. By the way, the Progressive Hay Grower magazine which I also write for ran it.



Homeland Security - On the Road



by Brad Nelson, for the Turbo Diesel Register



Way back when the earth was still drying up after the great flood I was seeing the great Northwest through the windshield of a Freightliner truck. I was located in Southwest Idaho and made somewhat of a living transporting baled hay from the hay growing regions to dairies, cattle ranches and stables all over the Northwest.

Most of the time I was able to sleep in my own bed at night. When we started hauling hay to the Washington-Oregon coast areas to unload and then see if we could find a load of freight somewhere toward back home – the bed at home had to do without me for two or three days at a time. I realized that traveling in strange territory I did not know whether or not an area was “safe” to park the truck while I tended to my beauty rest. A spot large enough to park the truck might be safe and it might not be – to keep driving when you are too tired to keep your eyes open is 100% not safe.



Pondering this situation, I made a trade with a fellow in my hometown. He became the proud owner of my fifty-dollar bill and I became the proud owner of what I nicknamed the “Teddy-bear. ” Manufactured by Rossi in Brazil, it had double barrels that chambered 12 gauge shotgun ammunition. The barrels were eighteen inches long, and the “Teddy-bear” had external hammers. The model is referred to as a “coach gun” the usual firearm carried by the fellow who rode “Shotgun” on the stagecoaches of the old West. With the “Teddy-bear” loaded with buckshot and stuffed between the mattress and the wall of the sleeper of the Freightliner, I slept very well regardless of my surroundings. Now I had the means to grant the wish of any miscreant who came looking for trouble while I was looking for some peaceful rest. Thankfully, I never had occasion to use the coach gun. Can you imagine how big the eyes would get on anyone breaking into my truck when they realized they were looking down the barrels of a 12-gauge?



Now to fast-forward thirty years, and discuss personal safety while traveling in the current era in the vehicle of choice – our Dodge TurboDiesel trucks. Shortly after I purchased my ’97 BR3500, we had opportunity to load up the camper and get lost for a couple of days. I now live in central Washington State. We traveled up to Lake Roosevelt, then crossed it on a ferry and eventually found an obscure park. It took low-range to keep the camper on the truck as we drove down into the wooded area and chose a spot to rustle together some lunch. I climbed into the over-cab bunk and closed my eyes for a few minutes while Elli prepared the food. My short nap was disturbed not by a call to come and eat, but by a commotion caused by three or four inebriated young men in a junker of a car, which they drove down the trail to the park about forty miles an hour, the same route I had slowly crawled down. As they parked and walked over to our rig, I got out of the bunk and brought with me the pistol that “lived” in the corner of the bed in the camper. I sat down on the dinette and placed the pistol, with its case opened, behind me. I let Elli, who has more patience than I do, chat with them for a few minutes until they finally left. We were both thankful that I did not need to let them know I was armed. We were also glad that we had the means to defend ourselves had the situation turned sour.



I would like to make a list of things anyone should do before bringing a firearm along.



1) Find out if and how a firearm may be carried legally in your vehicle in ALL the jurisdictions you will be traveling through.

Most areas will not want you to have a loaded firearm in a vehicle. Some will want it to be locked in a case somewhere other than in the passenger compartment. Some will specify that the firearm and its ammunition be secured separately. There are fifty states and each state will have close to two dozen counties and a couple hundred towns and cities. What is perfectly legal in one area may not be in the neighboring county or state.



2) Should you choose to arm yourself, learn how to handle your weapon of choice. The unholy day you need it to protect your family is not the day to figure out how it works. Every member of your family old enough to shoot should both respect and know how to use your weapon. YOU are the one who decides when a family member is old enough to learn to shoot. I taught my youngest daughter to shoot a 44-magnum revolver when she was six years old. (I made up some light birdshot loads for her. The recoil and sound was about like a . 22. ) Ten years later when she left on a date I would say to her, loud enough so the young man could hear, “Now don’t hurt him, Babe. ” When her escort would give me a puzzled look, I would say to him that she had been shooting 44-magnum revolvers since she was six years old.



3) Obtain a concealed weapons permit. Most states now issue this permit to anyone who qualifies. (Over 21, a U. S. citizen, not a convicted felon nor convicted of domestic violence, not a drug abuser, nor dishonorably discharged from the military, and fairly sound mentally. ) Possession of a concealed weapons permit tells any law enforcement person that you have passed a thorough background check in your home jurisdiction. Some states honor a concealed weapons permit from other states. Idaho and Washington, for example, honor each other’s permits. That means when I visit my mother in Idaho I can carry concealed. The only glitch is that the direct route to Mom’s house is through Oregon where I need to unload and lock up my carry firearm. I would not live in places like California or New Jersey or New York, which still do not offer concealed carry permits to law-abiding citizens.



4) Consider your ability to control your tongue and your temper. You do not carry a weapon to intimidate others. To brandish, or display a firearm may cost you your concealed weapons permit, possibly for life. Alcohol and gunpowder are as poor a mix as alcohol and driving. If you are not totally in control of yourself all of the time a firearm will do you more harm than good.



5) Be able to secure your weapon. Starting at about a hundred dollars are small gun vaults that can bolt to the inside of a camper, RV, TurboDiesel or whatever. You gain access either with a key or a keypad. This should be mounted out of sight, for obvious reasons.



6) Conduct yourself in a manner that will not attract the attention of either law enforcement or the criminal element. If you are stopped by anyone wearing a badge for any reason and you are carrying, hand the officer your concealed carry permit with your driver’s license. And be very pleasant!



Use common sense. Concealed carry means just that. You should be the only one who knows you are armed. No matter what you are armed with or how good you are with it, you will be safer just being aware of your surroundings. This means parking at night in well-lighted areas, avoiding obvious bad scenes or areas, etc.



The NRA (National Rifle Association) of which I have been a member for longer than I can remember, is your best source for information on what is legal where. It sponsors youth and adult training for both civilians and law enforcement. Most areas of the country have NRA affiliated clubs, which offer a wide range of the shooting sports. Being involved in the shooting sports is a fun way to get well acquainted with your “Teddy-bear”.



(I have worn the badge of a deputy sheriff and also attained a triple “A” classification shooting NRA sanctioned Hunter Pistol Silhouette, open sight division. At the first shooting meet that my then 14-year-old son out-shot me, I threatened to make him walk home. Four of the other club members offered not only to give him a ride home, but also to buy him ice cream on the way! )
 
Thanks for the post. The list you provided is exactly what seperates responsible firearm owners from those who tarnish the image of firearm ownership in general. I believe this was a great article but agree that perhaps Patton elected to not publish it because it was not directly relevant to the Cummins diesel trucks we love to own and operate.
 
Good article Brad. Thanks for posting it. I would tend to agree with Mr. Patton that it probably doesn't belong in the TDR publication. Gotta draw the line on subject matter somewhere. I only expect to see CTD related stuff and corresponding travel stories. Thank you Mr. Patton for drawing the line clearly. On the forum is ok, as one can choose to ignore or participate.



For the most part, I agree with the article. Each of us are the only ones responsible for our own security. I take exception to handing a cop a concealed carry permit along with my DL if a state in which I'm traveling does not require it. IMO, in certain less than friendly gun states this is an invitation to further questioning and possibly a search of your vehicle or RV. Not a good scenario.



I would suggest that it's best to know your rights and obligations when pulled over and stick with them in a polite but firm manner. Say as little as possible, no friendly I TRIED TO BY-PASS THE CUSSING FILTER chat. Police officers are trained to engage in polite I TRIED TO BY-PASS THE CUSSING FILTER chat as an unobtrusive way to gather information that you, the citizen, are not necessarily obligated to reveal or give up. Questions regarding what you are doing, where you are going, where you have been are NOT germane to a simple traffic stop. Freely offered information to a police officer can be used in a court of law against you.



A couple of good websites to investigate reciprocity and state laws include:

Handgunlaw. us

OpenCarry.org - A Right Unexercised is a Right Lost!

NRA-ILA ::



As far as fieldcraft goes, I would simply add that our brains are our #1 defensive tool and a firearm is the absolute last card one should ever consider playing. Brad's camping story is a great example of this. Planning and awareness of surroundings potentially saved the day.



Remember that no police officer has the duty or obligation to 'protect us'. It's up to each of us to maintain responsibility for our own security and exercise our God given natural rights to self defense, which are confirmed by the Bill of Rights and more specifically the 2nd. Use them or lose them. :)
 
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I would not live in places like California or New Jersey or New York, which still do not offer concealed carry permits to law-abiding citizens.





NY offers concealed carry permits. Most Counties have sensible restrictions on issuing them. There are a few places where there are "Anti" judges that do not allow them to be issued without restrictions.

Regular Concealed Carry Permits are not valid in the 5 Boroughs of NYC... which in kind of funny, seeing as it is easily the most likely place you would want to have a gun with you.



You can apply for a Concelaed Carry Permit in NYC if you want, but if God himself applied, he'd probably get refused. I have heard that the NYC Police do not honor the "professional courtesy" that is normally extended to other Police Officers, when they commit crimes, in regards to carrying a gun in the City.



Joe
 
There was some bad blood between Jersey and NYC cops. NYS law exempts cops from needing permits so any NY cop could always carry in NYC. The passing of some Federal law now makes it legal for any cop to carry in any state.
 
That's a good thing. I'd just like a similar law passed for regular ol citizens.

If youre found to be compident to carry on one state, you should be GTG in all.



After all nothing changes in a person if they cross over an imaginary line. :confused: Theyre still the same person.
 
NJ dont accept any other states CCW.
NJ dont issue them to "regular" citizens either. #@$%!
In many respects NJ is more backwards than California.
 
Good article Brad. Thanks for posting it.



I take exception to handing a cop a concealed carry permit along with my DL if a state in which I'm traveling does not require it. IMO, in certain less than friendly gun states this is an invitation to further questioning and possibly a search of your vehicle or RV. Not a good scenario.



I would suggest that it's best to know your rights and obligations when pulled over and stick with them in a polite but firm manner. Say as little as possible, no friendly I TRIED TO BY-PASS THE CUSSING FILTER chat. Police officers are trained to engage in polite I TRIED TO BY-PASS THE CUSSING FILTER chat as an unobtrusive way to gather information that you, the citizen, are not necessarily obligated to reveal or give up. Questions regarding what you are doing, where you are going, where you have been are NOT germane to a simple traffic stop. Freely offered information to a police officer can be used in a court of law against you.



I can see your point. A lot depends on the situation. If the situation is such that a legally carried piece may be discovered it is better, IMO, to not surprise the officer when he finds it. On the other hand, should I be stopped in Oregon state which does not have reciprocity with Washington state and have neglected to disarm myself at the border and secure the weapon, I would keep the conversation to "yes sir" and "no sir". Another sad fact is that an NRA sticker on your vehicle can easily prompt NOYB questions.



Brad
 
I can see your point. A lot depends on the situation. If the situation is such that a legally carried piece may be discovered it is better, IMO, to not surprise the officer when he finds it. On the other hand, should I be stopped in Oregon state which does not have reciprocity with Washington state and have neglected to disarm myself at the border and secure the weapon, I would keep the conversation to "yes sir" and "no sir". Another sad fact is that an NRA sticker on your vehicle can easily prompt NOYB questions.



Brad



I think its best said this way. If you feel obligated to tell the officer you are armed hand him your permit. Do not say or even worse shout "I have a gun" That can lead to a sticky situation:eek:
 
I've pulled over enough to be comfortable with having a gun in the truck.



I don't open any consoles, glove boxes, etc until the officer is at my window, and then I tell them "I have a permit to carry a concealed weapon which is blah blah blah... "



Never have they had an issue, in fact once the officer asked what kind and apparently was a fan of the brand... we talked more about guns than about speeding. :-laf
 
I've pulled over enough to be comfortable with having a gun in the truck.



I don't open any consoles, glove boxes, etc until the officer is at my window, and then I tell them "I have a permit to carry a concealed weapon which is blah blah blah... "



Never have they had an issue, in fact once the officer asked what kind and apparently was a fan of the brand... we talked more about guns than about speeding. :-laf



I normally wait to see if I have a SuperCop before I reveal that I have a firearm. Quite some years ago a cop nearly shot me with my own gun trying to unload it in front of me. The events that followed were not entertaining for anyone. Not long after that, that cop shot himself with his service gun through the hand by mistake, removing a finger.

When I do reveal that I have a gun, and if they want to take possession of it during the stop, I ask that they leave it in the holster until they return to their car.

Most are willing to oblige.
 
I think its best said this way. If you feel obligated to tell the officer you are armed hand him your permit. Do not say or even worse shout "I have a gun" That can lead to a sticky situation:eek:



FYI in Michigan if you have a Concealed Pistol license and are armed, you MUST tell the officer that you are armed. If you do not, you will likely lost the right to carry in the future (I've been off the road long enough to forget what the actual penalty is, but if I remember right you lose your permit).



When your name is run, atleast in Michigan, through LEIN/SOS on a traffic stop it will tell the officer if you have a permit. Also does if your plate is run, again in Michigan, if you plate is run the computer automatically runs the registered owners DL number too. Of course this is only applicable if you are in your own car.



I agree that the way you tell an officer that you are armed is important. The best way at least from the my stand point, would be if the person handed me their DL and the CPL permit at the same time, then I can ask if they are armed and proceed accordingly.



I wont bore you all with all the storys of having guns pulled on me and me pulling guns a people. 13years and counting of being a LEO in a city that wants to act the the wild west!



Hope this helps and always be safe,

J-
 
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