hp upgrades are they telling the truth?

[kchristopher]

Originally posted by Big_Daddy_T

I spoke with an eth owner today. <snip> I warned him about the lift pump and the fifth gear nut.

ETH owners don't have 5th gear nut problems. That problem is specific to the NV-4500 and the ETH motors come with the NV-5600.

 

[pwr2tow]

It's the conplaint a few of us have, a moral issue maybe, not giveing complete precise information.



It's guys like Gary that keep the misleaders from takeing full advantage of the unsuspecting, at least minimizing it.



Although I don't agree with you everytime Gary I commend you on trying to keep everyone totally informed.



Ron

 

[alaskax]

Human/Business Nature

I too would not make it in business 'cause I would post ALL the info on my products. I much prefer to aire on the side of conservatism, and perform beyond the expectations. Along those lines, I wonder if us truck owners don't sometimes do the same thing... I keep seeing numbers like "235 hp stock" (even an HO?) and other REALLY HUGE numbers from bombing, and I suspect we are not using the same baseline. My 2000 ETC I think was a strong truck stock, and when brand new it dynoed at 211 rwhp peak, but that figure really doesn't mean anything. The peak resulted from the transmission shifting (the way it was dynoed), and the angular momentum gained by the motor during that split second tranlated into a large peak acceleration that thus translates into a large hp peak. As I look at the overall dyno curve, I would say it produced 150 hp averaged over its primary operating range. My Dr. P phase III added another solid 100 hp to bring it to 250 hp and a smile on my face, but that kind of sounds like just a little more than a stock engine, right? Well, it does 0-60 in 8. 3 sec (about 16. 5 1/4), and I don't think stock would compare! I feel a little guilty posting my hp at 280, even though the dyno peak actually showed 287hp (boy, if I can get my truck to 380 hp, am I going to be smiling!! ).



I guess my point is that although we know companies try to make their figures as optimistic as possible, I wish we would list our trucks with numbers more reflecting how they ACTUALLY perform, and I would suggest [average rwhp over rpm range of 1800 to 2800] as a "for instance" , and not publish our peaks, which are not necessarily that meaningful (although I realize they often ARE, when based on a smooth rpm change). And are they dyno numbers or projected? I've been reading a lot of posts in the last month to see how people have bombed their trucks, and I suspect we sometimes report a little optimistically WHEN CAUGHT UP AND DRIVEN BY OUR OBSESSION!! Oo.



Well, my approach would definitely make me a business failure!



Sorry if this is irrelevant to this discussion, just my $0. 02 worth!

 

[JTMcCracken]

Gary, there is only one solution to this problem! You must immediatly go to the garage and remove that box! Then, pack it up and mail it (don't delay!) to: John T. McCracken

P. O. Box 25

Valentine, AZ. 86437

Thank you for your support. JTMcC.

 

[HVAC]

Dyno Figures

Before most of you had 24v trucks I bought the first 50 production Edge EZ's from Brett and Taylor outta the trunk of their rentacar while we were in Tulare Ca. for the October Showdown event. Consequently I did the first dyno testing as Edge didn't have a dyno at the time.



Credit to "Big Daddy T", your correct. The EZ makes it's best power at 2000 rpm, not peak hp, not peak torque. I dynoed a ETH that made 65 rwhp and I'd sat that was the truest reading I have seen since it was at sea level. I have seen a ETH make over 70 hp in vegas, however that's a corrected number and I believe most of us agree that those corrected numbers don't apply to our trucks.



So it's possible to witness the EZ making only 35 hp at peak and then start to question the quotes one may have heard. This is why you need to deal with people who know the facts and not just the hype.

 

[BIG BOB]

alaskax,



You have an automatic trans, unless you have a lockup on it, you will get spikes in you dyno numbers. While I have a 5 speed. When I get on the dyno, I run through the gears until I get to 4th (1:1 ratio), I let the rpm drop down in 4th till around 1250 rpms, then hammer it and start the dyno run, never changing to another gear. My dyno sheets show a very nice ark with no spikes. Here is one of my old ones:



Dyno Sheet



This shows the peak HP & Torque at the rear wheels without spikes.



It's too bad you chose Dr. P for your mods. For the money you spent on Dr. P, you could had 400+ rear wheel HP form mods talked about on TDR. You would then be working on the transmission.



Remember that the stock HP rating of out Cummins is rated at the flywheel, you lose 20% going to the rear wheels. For example, a ETC with 235 HP at the flywheel will have about 190 at the rear wheels. Some truck do better than that, Why? I can't tell you.

 

[Big_Daddy_T]

Re: Anyone out there like me?

"I guess the place I am looking for a performance bomb is between 1400 and 2000 RPM on the tach. Heck, I have never had this thing over 2500 RPM and rarely had it over 2200 Rpm. "quote



Daveshoe I would recommend the va or the ez. It looks like the dyno on the eth with an ez is pretty awesome. I havent researched the va in some time. http://www.edgeproductsinc.com/ez-eth-chart.html

 

[RustyJC]

Re: Re: Anyone out there like me?

"I guess the place I am looking for a performance bomb is between 1400 and 2000 RPM on the tach. Heck, I have never had this thing over 2500 RPM and rarely had it over 2200 Rpm. "

Our truck is primarily used to tow a 13,500 lb 36' 5th wheel. My "seat of the pants" dynamometer indicates that the EZ has the most impact from about 1500-2300 RPM, just where we need it for towing. Again, my SOP dyno says the EZ-equipped ETH with stock injectors drops off pretty quickly after 2600-2700 - you can really feel this when accelerating through the gears at 21,180 GCW!!



Rusty

 

[alaskax]

Big Bob,



Really nice dyno results and truck! At the time, I asked for hp vs. RPM, but was told that would "cost more" (I think in order be able to show the higher spikes!). Now that I've been reading these forums, I realize my $3000 wasn't well spent. Oh well, ignorant customers are easy to prey on, right? Live and learn... but now I'm ready to take it to the next level, and the claims made by vendors are easy to corroborate by all you experienced and helpful bombers!



John

 

[KLockliear]

Originally posted by Gary - KJ6Q

There was no NEED for a "misunderstanding" - Edge displays dyno numbers for the ETC, knowing full well the ETH will obtain LESS power (so do *I*, NOW!) - why not AVOID "misunderstanding" by posting dyno numbers for BOTH engines?

SOME vendors do this.

 

[RustyJC]

Keith,



Since you're on here, I'm considering upgrading to DDII's (yeah, I know. I've got to call Peter and get a clutch on order first!) What kind of BHP and torque should I expect on my 2002 ETH with an EZ (see signature)?



Edit: We use our truck to tow a 13,500 lb, 36' triple slide 5th wheel. Loaded and headed down the road, we're running 21,180 lbs GCW (21,500 lbs GCWR).



Thanks,



Rusty

 

[KLockliear]

With Stage 2's on an ETH, you can expect a peak gain of 90hp/175ft-lbs to the wheels (not BHP).

 

[RustyJC]

Originally posted by KLockliear

With Stage 2's on an ETH, you can expect a peak gain of 90hp/175ft-lbs to the wheels (not BHP).

I'm assuming the 90/175 numbers are the net impact of the DDII's alone - that is, the DDII's would generate increases at the rear wheels of 90 hp and 175 ft-lbs of torque on a stock ETH. Although your company doesn't market the Edge EZ per se, I just thought you might have dynoed an ETH with DDII's and an EZ out of curiosity - I was trying to determine the net impact of both the EZ and the DDII's.



This gets around to the original intent of this thread. I know that advertised power increases are not directly additive, so it's difficult for the prospective user to estimate the cumulative impact of multiple modifications (i. e. , DDII's with the EZ).



Thanks again,



Rusty

 

[Bob Wagner]

EZ and 2's would be right around 325 HP

 

[KatDiesel]

Originally posted by Bob Wagner

EZ and 2's would be right around 325 HP

On an ETH? 275's + EZ = 320hp.



Don't remember the exact number, but Floor It did it with his truck, I wanna say 321hp.

 

[KLockliear]

Add another 35-40hp/90ft-lbs at the peak for an EZ/True Torque Power Module. More like 70hp/200ft-lbs in the midrange.

 

[WadePatton]

Well dangitohell I learned something on this thread! Mid-range numbers huh? I s'pose a close look at the graphs would have revealed that.



Not a problem though. Keith told me that the DDUFM (for those that don't know-it's a slightly modifed Edge Comp) would be good for 120-125 rwhp on my ETC.



I don't care where it ACTUALLY happens --it's real nice to have!



And will verify with dyno after clutch and before injectors.

 

[pwr2tow]

year of truck also has an impact on How much peak HP one will get. older 24v have lower rated HP numbers than newer ones. I think it is years 98 1/2-2000 then 2001-2002 then 2003-whenever.



Ron

 

[Diesel Freak]

Here is my last baseline run with DD3's and the Puck on my ETH. The run was in 5th gear.



Dyno Run