hp upgrades are they telling the truth?

[Gary - K7GLD]

I have NO intention of making this a long and drug-out issue - this thread is about misleading vendor practices, and I made my point!



I've been on this board for well over a year now - but MOST of my time was in the 1st generation forum with my '91 Dodge - I've only been piddling with the '02 for about 6 months - I was well aware of the difference between a 12 valve and 24 valve engine, but did NOT know that difference extended to efficiency of boxes like the Comp and what they would deliver to each engine type.



FACT is, I began questioning power obtained SPECIFICALLY in the ETH with a Comp AFTER looking at the Edge web pages where ONLY the ETC dyno numbers are displayed, and then buying one, - doncha even SLIGHTY wonder WHY they ONLY display the ETC, when they could as easily ALSO show numbers for the ETH?



YOU know why, and so do *I* - so why PRETEND all is hunky-dory? HeII, I've even tried to SPECIFICALLY find out on THIS board what dyno readings have been obtained from installation of a COMP ALONE on an ETH engine - and only got *2* appropriate responses as near as I can recall - all the REST were vague comments as to " ETC's get more than the ETH's" - but NO specifics, and SPECIFICS is what I was LOOKING for!



It's only been in the last week that I *finally* got a response from Edge that the ETH will see about 80 HP and 300 ft. lbs. TQ increase from a Comp ALONE... Obviously they KNOW those numbers - why not DISPLAY them along with the ETC numbers on their web pages...



Again we all KNOW why they don't - so why pretend we DON'T - or be so quick to excuse it! And why THEN try to shift blame to the CUSTOMER, who "shoulda known better"... We can use THAT feeble excuse on virtually EVERY case where a product fails to deliver as expected...



Yer Dodge automatic transmission failed prematurely? Why heII, "everybody knows they do that", so the failure is REALLY your own fault for not being informed...



Yer 5 or 6-speed transmission not shifting properly? Well, if'n ya had just read up, you woulda KNOWN they often do that - it's yer OWN fault for not checking...



The list goes on...



Yeah - I suppose *I* would never make it in the business world - because if I made a power box that would fit on several engine types in a given line of vehicles, and decided to post dyno readings, *I* would undoubtedly be STUPID enough to post dyno figures for ALL of them, not just the ones that looked BEST...



WHY do ya suppose it is, that ONE vendor can supply claims or attempt to "slant" numbers on THEIR products, and get VICIOUSLY slammed for it - yet OTHERS can do essentially the SAME THING, and it's perfectly OK and acceptable? Is there a "pecking order" for advertisers? Does honesty and integrity get applied DIFFERENTLY depending on who the manufacturer is?



Does the name "Banks", "DTT" or "ATS" mean anything to anyone... ?

 

[LSMITH]

Originally posted by Gary - KJ6Q

It's only been in the last week that I *finally* got a response from Edge that the ETH will see about 80 HP and 300 ft. lbs. TQ increase from a Comp ALONE

YOU dropped the several hundred dollars thinking it SHOULD work like YOU want it to WITHOUT THE INFO!!!!!!! My gosh man, do you buy everything that way? There is NO WAY I would. Because you could not wait for the info and HAD TO BUY IT, they are misleading YOU? I just don't see it. If they were that bad about getting back to you did that not tell you something? If someone treated me like that there is NO WAY I would have sent them my hard earned cash. Geez man, grab them bootstraps, pull yourself up and take some responsibility here.



LOTS of us have dealt with Edge directly, you are the first one that I have heard of that it took more than one week to get a response too BTW.



I suppose they should have telepathically known that YOU misread the website or did not take the time to find out EXACTLY what the gains would be so you could be happy and they would not have to be crooks

 

[SlyBones]

Something I didnt see mentioned ( could have missed though ) is that you cant just add 100+100+100+100 = 400HP increase. Even though each product advertises a 100hp increase. -- Its more like its a 100hp increase if its the first BOMB.



Its really more like 100+80+60+40 = 280HP increase.

 

[jtisdale]

Back to the question

So, what would you recommend that our new friend Firemanemt, (whose probably wondering WTF by now) should buy?

 

[LSMITH]

Re: Back to the question

Originally posted by jtisdale

So, what would you recommend that our new friend Firemanemt, (whose probably wondering WTF by now) should buy?

With no truck info and no stated goals of modifications it is pretty hard to say.....

 

[nascar mark]

Hey Joe D. I did a search looking for a view of your 633hp on #2 only dyno run but couldn't find anything. Would it be possible to post your 633 hp run so we could check it out. Would like to see your hp/torque curve.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

"YOU dropped the several hundred dollars thinking it SHOULD work like YOU want it to WITHOUT THE INFO!!!!!!! My gosh man, do you buy everything that way?"



(personal attack removed by SS)



I've made it QUITE clear that I checked out their website for "facts", read what they had to offer, their "info", and based upon other satisfied customers and their recommendations, made my choice!



At that time. I was realtively new to 24 valve engines, and had lots to learn - it was only after having the Comp installed for a while and then reading LATER posts that I became aware of differing power levels with the Comp and the 2 engine types - and started asking pointed questions...



NOW, is THAT clear to you, or do I need to write bigger and with a different color crayon?



IF *YOU* wanna continue THIS discussion with ME, I suggest private Email!

 

[illflem]

You guys all better start being nice to each other or I'm going to send you home

 

[RKohn]

Can ya feel the Luv?

:-{}



Is that red border the new style, or just the flames on this post.





I've called and e-mailed Edge a couple times and they've been as responsive as any other vendor, maybe a little better. And no, I don't have any connection to them, have never sold or used any of they're products. I do have one of their boxes sitting on the shelf waiting to be installed, but I'm still doing my homework. I'm also waiting on one of the new red needle Isspro fuel gauges and a decent pod before I dive into my project.



Some folks spend more time on research than they do on buying new products. Each path is an educational experience, albeit one may prove more costly. Hopefully they both end up with what they want... Perfect Smoke.



rick

 

[BIG BOB]

Edge and Bully Dog excellent products and vendors!

I have a PE Comp on my ETC truck, my dyno results show a 130 HP increase with the Comp. I have had several Edge boxes including the Hot PE 3 and EZ. Edge has always had great customer service and always been easy to work with. I would bet that if you are that dissatisfied with the Comp, send it back, and Edge would give you a refund. I'm sure you will not find another box by any manufacture that will give you any more HP than the Comp.



I also put Bully Dog III injectors in, they are advertised at a 100 HP increase. My dyno results were 105 HP increase! Bully Dog has also been an outstanding vendor.



I know you have a ETH and they just don't respond to fueling boxes the way the ETC does. Sorry for your misunderstanding, but I want to let everyone know that I have had excellent products and service from these vendors. Oo. Oo.

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

Mark, I don't have a scanner. We waited all Friday morning of MM02, having extended the 2 dyno days to 2. 5 just for HVAC, Piers, etc. who couldn't come on Wedn. or Thu. ; you guys didn't show or call so we didn't know what to do to help you play with us



If you had joined us in our fun and games, you could have looked at any or all of the dyno curves from 85 or so Rams, as the attendees did.



Come to MM03 and have a great time looking at your own dyno sheets as well as mine and the others We are all looking forward to your participation and friendly competition.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

"I know you have a ETH and they just don't respond to fueling boxes the way the ETC does. Sorry for your misunderstanding, but I want to let everyone know that I have had excellent products and service from these vendors. "



(SIGH!)



There was no NEED for a "misunderstanding" - Edge displays dyno numbers for the ETC, knowing full well the ETH will obtain LESS power (so do *I*, NOW!) - why not AVOID "misunderstanding" by posting dyno numbers for BOTH engines? Why leave it to the customer to turn rocks over trying to discover the "truth" I have NO illusions that the Comp is about as good as boxes get for these trucks - but THAT is/was not the ISSUE!



SO, in the eyes of some here, it's NOT the manufacturer's fault when ALL the truth concerning a product isn't supplied, it's the CUSTOMER'S fault for TRUSTING them, and not applying great reams of time checking and double checking their claims - OR omissions - as the case may be?



Yeah - I guess that's about where we are today - until WE are the ones who get burned - THEN, my, how our outlook changes...



It's pretty easy to sit back and judge another for his "glaring error" on an issue WE are pretty well versed on - but when the shoe is on the OTHER foot - well, THAT'S a LOT different...



All in all, I'm generally satisfied with the Comp, probably nothing better out there - *I* don't get the torque Edge claims for it in my truck - but that's OK too - my complaint was in not having info provided by them on their website that there WAS a difference in delivered power between the ETC and ETH, and being left to discover that little "gotcha" on my own...



Some of you think that's OK and reasonable - or MY fault - that's OK - just remember that bit of philosophy next time YOU fall into a similar situation...

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

Both sides of the edge issue have been argued. Now drop it before it gets any more heated.



-Steve St. Laurent

Lead Moderator

 

[LSMITH]

Gary, I feel no need to continue this with you at all. I am simply trying to make the point to people that may not know that the guys at Edge are NOT CROOKS!!! You made a mistake, and are blaming them. Not fair in my book. Guys not familiar with the pattern of behavior shown should know.

 

[LSMITH]

WHOOPS, you snuck in on me Steve, I am OUT!

 

[CrewCabDiesel]

Come on guys, this is supposed to be fun.

Maybe I am doing something wrong, but I read posts on TDR and ask questions to get ideas for bombing, and then give Piers a call to tell me how to do it, sells me the parts, and a way I go. To me the most important "dyno" is the seat of the pants and the Yee Ha factor.

Today I had a new technician I was training with me in the truck and this nice moron in a Chevy 1/2 ton was trying to kiss my rear bumper while I was on cruise at 75mph. I said to the kid as I cranked up the edge comp to 5 " watch this" , the chevy disappeared in a cloud of smoke and the kid turned white and I hit 3 digits on the speedo in a heart beat, Now thats cool and a true dyno. The kid was into rice burning 4 bang coffins on wheels, thats seems to have changed now, he picked up a truck trader magazine before he went home

 

[Big_Daddy_T]

I spoke with an eth owner today. He was not into bombing. He had done it to a former psd and expressed his disinterest in bombing his "perfect for my use" ram. I said hell yeah an eth wouldnt really need the bombs if no heavy towing was planned. He said 300k was his hopeful ballpark. I said even with mods he should reach it no prob. I warned him about the lift pump and the fifth gear nut. Just as we were about to part he asked about computers in mine. I told him that the eth would realize better gains from injectors because of the difference in injection pumps. He understood. I explained that mine was an etc and that the advertised gains were known not to be realized by the eth crowd. Again the difference in pumps. He was a fellow highmark snowmachine rider so I think I will bump into him again. I hope he checks his fuel pressure and keeps up on the 6 speed. Cause I know that *I* did not misrepresent the gains from a computer. It would be fallicy on his part to believe that a computer would acheive the gains that *I* would get in my etc. I speak very clearly though so I do not think he will ever get it wrong. Though SOME people have very selective hearing. Like the PSD owners I have met.

 

[daveshoe]

Anyone out there like me?

I guess I am middle of the road CTD owner with a 2002 ETH. I guess I realize that either I do not posses the shifting skills necessary to beat mustangs or corvettes off the line--- especially since my truck weighs 9900 empty. It seems that with a truck that has 235 Hp stock that I already have a BOMBed truck as compared to some earlier models. Most of my mods have been to the tool boxes that I salvaged, rebuilt , and continue to modify for use in business.

I guess the place I am looking for a performance bomb is between 1400 and 2000 RPM on the tach. Heck, I have never had this thing over 2500 RPM and rarely had it over 2200 Rpm. Previous truck was K2500 Chev. This truck will not keep up with old one in traffic , but will BLOW ITS DOORS OFF towing. What I have been able to gather is VA may be best for my application. I guess if I could ride in or drive a BOMBed truck in HO ETH it would tell me if that is what I want in my truck. Location is Dayton OH .

Any advise or truck rides appreciated. Hope I did not flame anyone

 

[WadePatton]

Although I didn't know it at the time I bought my ETC, I found out very quickly and LONG before I purchased my box that ETH's need injectors to really respond.



I have talked to Piers, DD, Edge, Wildcat, SBC, Blue Chip, and others on the phone and find them all to be outstanding folks.



My "Seat-O-Pants and YeeHaw" meter corresponds exactly to what Keith said the UFM would do for my specific application. And he hooked me up with a second-hand unit.



I started a post way back when titled "which box fo me?" and received lots of good info.



Dave--look around you'll find plenty of info. I'll start with the ritual GAUGES FIRST, you MUST monitor Fuel Pressure on a 24v and you MUST monitor Exhaust Gas Temps on any diesel with more than stock fuel, especially if loaded heavy. The next step depends on how soon you want to upgrade your clutch/transmission. The "EZ" level of performance generally won't fry your clutch/transmission, and some folks get away with a little more than that. My ETC will slip the clutch at low R's in level 4 and 5 of the fueling box.



I'd probably try DDII injectors/fooler in your rig. Beauty of injectors is that they're out of sight and no pulling wires through the dash. Downside is that they're always on and require a modicum of effort to install.



My ride is getting DD3'3 after a big clutch goes in. Then a PDR-HX40. Then...

 

[LSMITH]

Daveshoe, your truck doesn't even start to run until 1700, it runs HARD from 2000 to about 2800. Use the RPM and use the power, cause it makes it stock!!!! Shift at 2800-2900 for a week and decide then if it needs more power.



I get to Cinci once in a while. If I am headed down and might have some time I will shoot you an email. I have a VA we could pop on your truck and you could test drive if we met halfway for a coffee or something. My VA is not for sale though. You game for that?