HTT/ATS Manifolds...concrete evidence?

[jkeyes]

Steve Benson sold ATS turbo to ATS transmissions about 1-1/2 yrs ago. In a wprd yes they are the same.



-J-

 

[ATSDiesel]

same patented design.

 

[Forrest]

2 days appart. Same dyno. Similar resulsts on two different trucks.



-J-

Would have been interesting to throw the stock manifold in @ the same time.

 

[BradyWilliams]

Re: Ats Manifolds

We have been installing these for many years, long before ATS, Denver bought out Steve at ATS, SLC. We have never seen a drop in horse power. We have seen that their manifold is very durable and holds up to exccesive pyrometer heat and discoloration. I am sure that both manifolds that are being discussed in this thread is very good quality and they are both VERY close to the same in a lot of ways. We have all installed ATS manifolds on our trucks here and have made good hp with them. Manifolds are items that don't add big hp. But they can enhance the hp you are trying to develope. Thanks

 

[DHayden]

Base line numbers for EGT and Boost stock

Ok I got the ATS intake and HTT exhaust manifold today. Sorry there wont be any dyno numbers but I will offer the before and after numbers for boost and EGT if anyone in interested.

I was thinking I will give stock numbers, then with ATS manifold, put stock intake back on and do the exhaust manifold numbers and then the intake and exhaust manifolds together.

This is just to show how each one worked individually and together so people can see what they are getting. Keep in mind one is an ATS intake and one is an HTT exhaust manifold so there is no direct comparrison of parts or companies here, just general info on how the numbers were effected.



Base with Signature setup and comp on 5X5, no load and 80F outside:



Max EGT: 1228F pre turbo

Max Boost: 42. 8 psi

 

[DHayden]

With ATS intake and stock exhaust manifold:



73F outside temp



Max Boost: 36. 9 psi

Max EGT: 1214F pre turbo



Now I know the outside temp is 7 deg lower today and I'm not sure if the correlation is relative to EGT or not but even so it was a bit of a drop, not allot but some.



I am suprised to see the boost drop that much... I just hope I'm not loosing it through a leak under acceleration because they did not send me a new gasket so I'm using the old one. It seemed in good shape and is probably not an issue.

 

[ATSDiesel]

With ATS intake and stock exhaust manifold:



73F outside temp



Max Boost: 36. 9 psi

Max EGT: 1214F pre turbo



Now I know the outside temp is 7 deg lower today and I'm not sure if the correlation is relative to EGT or not but even so it was a bit of a drop, not allot but some.



I am suprised to see the boost drop that much... I just hope I'm not loosing it through a leak under acceleration because they did not send me a new gasket so I'm using the old one. It seemed in good shape and is probably not an issue.

The loss in boost is the same as with the exhaust manifold, the turbo is not having to work as hard to move the same ammount of air.

 

[pro99]

I could see 1 or 2 lbs drop but not 6 with just replacing the air horn and not the exhaust with it. That air horn is not that Restrictive. I was looking to replace my exhaust manifold and was following the thread.

 

[DHayden]

First of all let me say, replacing the exhaust manifold sux when no anti sieze compound was used #@$%! I removed my turbo and exhaust manifold today but ran out of light to get the new one in.



I too was suprised to see that much of a drop but that's what it was. I have checked for leaks and found none. My egt and boost gauges record max readings so it is just a matter of me pressing a button to retrieve the info, I reset the max for both prior to each of these readings. I should have the readings for the HTT exhaust manifold and the ATS intake together tomarrow.

 

[Matt400]

I should have the readings for the HTT exhaust manifold and the ATS intake together tomarrow.

Great, thanks for sharing the tests!!

 

[dsherman]

What is a HTT

What is a HTT,

And were can i get info for one, {were to get}

Thanks

David

 

[DHayden]

High Tech Turbo



http://www.htturbo.com/



Its been raining all morning so I'm behind schedule today.

 

[DHayden]

Well since it was raining all morning, I got a wild hair and decided to paint the exhaust manifold and my turbo (turbo was red so it was time to go). I might get some back together today but daylight is running out fast these days.

 

[DHayden]

Ok got her all done today, it was 76degrees outside:



Max EGT: 1172F



Max Boost: 32. 7 psi



EDIT: sorry Matt I went and checked the egt recall again and it was 1172 not 1162. Usually I write it down but forgot my pen

 

[Matt400]

Interesting, so overall based on the numbers it looks as though you have reduced both inlet and outlet restrictions.



For those that have seen a reduction in HP with these pieces I wonder if it wouldn't be more of a fair comparison to increase boost back up to where it originally was for comparison? That way you are comparing HP against same boost levels.

 

[DHayden]

I edited my last post Matt, make sure you look at it again. I am suprised at the amount of boost that I dropped. I guess that's a good thing even though in my mind I feel kind of gimpy with the amount of boost I'm putting out now. The truck still runs strong and feels about the same but thats 10. 1 psi difference in boost!

I understand the efficiency but maybe someone who understands boost better than me (or better than I thought I did) can explain more of whats happening. What other pressures are being effected turbo wise?

 

[Matt400]

I understand the efficiency but maybe someone who understands boost better than me (or better than I thought I did) can explain more of whats happening.

Here are those numbers once again side by side-

Stock-

Max EGT: 1228F pre turbo

Max Boost: 42. 8 psi

With Manifolds-

Max EGT: 1172F

Max Boost: 32. 7 psi

Your manifold combination reduced restrictions allowing for more air volume but at less pressure. Since all you changed was the manifolds then the only way EGT would have gone down is with more air flow. The only way boost psi would have gone down is with less restriction.



Actually I am surprised at what just the intake did because I always looked at those pieces as cosmetic but the reduction in boost psi shows a clear advantage IMO.

One way to look at it is you can't build boost psi unless one end is somehow restricted. Its the same as blowing through a small and large diameter straw with the large one allowing you to expel more at a less pressure in the straw.

 

[DHayden]

So boost is a product of inefficiency, that can't be entirely so. 40psi of boost is better and more noticeable than 20psi of boost (say on a stock turbo) though the 40 psi is well past the map limits. At what point is the cross over. . so to speak? Drive pressure is being effected here I'm assuming? I'm not sure I know how to get across the information I'm seeking here. Inefficiency is more boost but more boost is better in most cases. What is the relationship?

 

[Matt400]

So boost is a product of inefficiency, that can't be entirely so. 40psi of boost is better and more noticeable than 20psi of boost

Only because in that statement you are talking about more boost within the same restrictions.

At what point is the cross over. . so to speak?

Not sure what you mean. Decreasing boost pressure buy improving restrictions is not the same as decreasing boost with a waste gate. One improves air flow while the other simply reduces it.

Drive pressure is being effected here I'm assuming?

Probably but I think drive pressure is mostly determined by the turbo with it being the restriction causing the drive pressure. Maybe someone who is a true Diesel Hot Rodder will jump in on that one.

Inefficiency is more boost but more boost is better in most cases. What is the relationship?

The relationship is that at higher psi you are able to cram more air molecules into the cylinder so more fuel can be burned. But if you can move the same amount of air into the cylinder at a lower pressure its more efficient.



The boost pressure itself won't make anymore power, its the air molecules that allow the fuel to burn.

 

[ATSDiesel]

Drive pressure is being effected here I'm assuming?

The drive pressure is reduced when the ability to flow more air is increased. The easier the turbo can move air, the less drive pressure it takes to spool it up. Its all about restriction, the less their is the better. More boost isn't always better.