i want to learn to weld...

[BTowler]

Greg, the Hobart 187 is a mig welder, not a stick.

 

[GiesJ]

I thought for sure someone would have something negative to say about hobart. I'm looking pretty hard at the hobart 187. Any feedback on this unit would be appreciated.

Don't know if this helps but my local welding supply has the Hobart Handler 187 230V composite MIG package complete for 688. 88 (on sale from 843. 77).

 

[BTowler]

I thought for sure someone would have something negative to say about hobart. I'm looking pretty hard at the hobart 187. Any feedback on this unit would be appreciated.

You sound like your trying to find someone to talk you out of it. Get the Hobart and be done with it. As I stated before, I liked my Hobart 135 much better than my Miller 135, even though it didn't have a continuously variable voltage control. The 187 now has 7 voltage settings instead of just 4, so it is even less of an isssue.

 

[rbattelle]

do you all think that the Hobart 187 would be suitable for trailer and farm equipment repair or am I better off with a 220 stick welder? Supposedly the 187 will weld 5/16". Also if I am welding a 1/4" plate onto another piece of 1/4" (lap weld) is that considered 1/2" and would therefore require a larger welder or is that still considered 1/4"?

Here's how I decided on stick. For $600 I got one of the best stick machines out there, capable of a huge range of thicknesses. I decided that at the same price, a MIG unit wouldn't be as capable as the stick (except you can do much thinner metal with MIG than you can with stick) for thick metals, which is what I weld 90% of the time. Stick welds are so hot that I don't fear them coming apart on me at very high loads. I don't have to deal with any gas, and there are no moving parts in my welder.



Here's some wisdom from Machinery's Handbook:

The two most cost-effective manual arc welding processes are GMAW (MIG) and FCAW (Flux Cored Arc Welding). These two welding processes are used with more than 50% of the arc welding consumable electrodes purchased. ... GMAW is the most-used welding process.

By far, you see more MIG welding than anything else. Why? It's the easiest type of welding, and when done properly no other process can deposit metal at such a high rate (it's highly productive), and it's one of the most flexible methods. The problem for me is the need for a relatively large investment to get the true flexibility of the MIG process.



I'm biased, because I am engaged in a love affair with stick welding. I get all worked up just thinking about it! But for most people, MIG is the better choice. Less of a learning curve than stick, and very flexible in terms of metal thickness. On the other hand, I've heard people say that whereas ugly MIG welds are weak and sometimes pretty MIG welds are also weak, even the ugliest stick welds are usually very strong.

Another cause of ARC BLOW is having your excess leads coiled up in a neat pile. String out your leads and dont let them coil or overlap. Hope this is helpful. GregH

I had no idea. GHarman, I wish you lived close enough for me to come get a lesson. In 1 hour you could probably teach me 10 times what I've learned by trial-and-error in the last year.



Ryan

 

[Turbo Tim 1]

I've got the Hobart 180 which only has 4 voltage settings and it works pretty good for me. If I have any complaints I guess it would be duty cycle, even though it's not normally an issue. Last summer I started welding up a stove for boiling maple syrup, when you're trying to weld 2x3 sheets of steel together it runs out of life so you've got to take a break and have another beer:-laf



It's been a good welder and has come in handy, I think I gave $660-680 for it at tractor supply.

 

[GiesJ]

Ryan -

A lesson or two with GregH would be a treat. When I move back home to Wyoming I might just try to bug him with my ignorance!



I just checked out your webpage and the fuel delivery project and you're no slouch when it comes to understanding this stuff...



I agree that GMAW/FCAW is probably the best way to go but too think that some good looking MIG/flux cored welds can behave quite badly. A good looking and performing stick weld (to me as a complete welding idiot) is much harder (skill wise to complete) than the same from the MIG.



We use several Submerged Arc Welding machines (SAW) at work and THEY can put the material down, hot and fast!

 

[GHarman]

WOW, Fellers, I guess I got my tongue wrapped around my eye teeth and couldnt see what I was saying. I got cornfused with the Hobart machine. :-laf I thought we were talking SMAW! Oh well, I get 'oldtimers disease onest in a while. PS. You can make multiple pass welds with a GMAW. Make sure you clean each pass before you lay down another bead. A wire feeder has a very narrow fusion zone unless you are running it in spray arc mode. Then you defeat the advantage of a GMAW which is a narrower HAZ and less distortion. BTW, thanks for your confidence in me. I am a little shaky these days on the SMAW and GTAW. Have been doing a little of both on a project. They say its like riding a bicycle, but not for me. I have had to work hard to maintain the hand-eye coordination when my health was good. Now it is much more difficult. #@$%! Thanks, GregH

 

[GHarman]

BTW, Are you Gentlemen ( and Ladies ) using respritory protection, eg; Dust masks at a minimum while grinding or prepping your metal in an aggressive manner. You will thank me in 30 years. Please do this favor for yourself. Your Grandchildren will be happy you did. Remember, the new 50 is 70 years of age! You dont want to be lugging an OXYGEN BOTTLE around instead of your favorite Grandbaby! GregH

 

[rbattelle]

BTW, Are you Gentlemen ( and Ladies ) using respritory protection, eg; Dust masks at a minimum while grinding or prepping your metal in an aggressive manner.

I wear a 3M respirator with gas cartridges when I do heavy grinding/sanding/abrasive removal and welding. If I "forget" to wear the respirator on big jobs it turns my mucous BLACK. Not good. The cartridges I run turn black themselves within a few hours.

I am guilty of occasionally forgoing the respirator if I'm just doing a couple quick welds or just a little polishing with the grinder.

GiesJ - thanks for the compliment.

Ryan

 

[THenningsen]

ryan- I too am really interested in stick welding. To me it seems like a more interesting method to learn. I'm just trying to decide what would suit my needs the best. I tend to want to over build everthing, so maybe stick welding would be best. I envision building a trailer someday and my father-in-law has a small farm. It is either the handler 187 or the hobart stickmate ac/dc.

 

[BTowler]

There is more versatility in a mig welder, I would suggest the 187 (again), it will do larger jobs and if you want you can weld thin metals with it.



Greg, we done neeeed no stinkin resprators! Actually, I wore one before always, but have a Speedglass hood which draws air from the back, and it seems to work. If I am doing any heavy or continuous work I will wear one, but normally I am laying bead for a minute and taking a three to six minute break in between. Do have to admit I let it slip on the grinding though.

 

[GHarman]

Greg, we done neeeed no stinkin resprators! Actually, I wore one before always, but have a Speedglass hood which draws air from the back, and it seems to work. If I am doing any heavy or continuous work I will wear one, but normally I am laying bead for a minute and taking a three to six minute break in between. Do have to admit I let it slip on the grinding though.

BTowler, ( I realize you are kidding):-laf But seriously, the binders in a grinding wheel are often fiberglass (atomized by the grinding process ) and other constituents (fumes) that do not have your health in mind. There is acute exposure ( all at once ) and chronic exposure ( a little over a long period of time). One of my main peeves about Welding Cirriculum in a formal training program in Community Colleges is that there is no training for respiritory health or proper material handling ( proper heavy lifting techniques ) or hearing protection ( wear ear plugs or muffs when grinding). While working for a government, prime contractor, we were grilled in hazardous materials and lifting techniques (among a dozen other subjects). That training was supposed to be part of the transfer of technology but it seems it got lost in the shuffle. I cant emphasize this enough. Know what you are working on. Know what is going to affect your health . Know how to protect yourself. What you abuse yourself with now WILL show up in 20 or 30 years as a burden on your health. Depending on your personal metabolism and inner physical strength and if you inadvertantly poisoned yourself in your earlier years. Have you heard the one about the Nuclear worker ( many years ago ) who used to take breaks at the work station. Often sitting in a chair with his head resting against the glove box. An object or residue of very high radioactivity often on the other side of the glove box wall. Guess who was diagnosed with Brain Cancer? This is an anecdotal story. I cannot prove this but have often heard it through my Union contacts, whom I believe to be trustworthy. I want all of you young folks to be aware of what you are doing to yourself. OK, I will get down off'n my soapbox. But I will be reminding you all of your safety, OFTEN!Oo. GregH

 

[BTowler]

Thanks Greg, I will be more conscious of it from now on.

 

[Turbo Tim 1]

GHarman, excellent advice! I have to admit that when I am working at home the safety aspect of things often slips. Thanks for the kick in the butt, I'll be more attentive in the future.

 

[GHarman]

My Pleasure! GregH

 

[GHarman]

BTW, I got a chance to run some of the new Lincoln Excalibur 7018 XXXX? I dont remember the suffix. Its over in the shop, cant get to it today. Anyway, this low hydrogen rod is supposed to be coated with a moisture limiting coating. My friend, a CWI/CWE said dont bake it out, just run it. ( The project I am working on is not governed by a code requirement. ) I have to admit that I laid some on an aluminum plate on the woodstove in my shop just to warm it up. It was very cold and damp this last week or so. This rod runs great. My friend said to watch the starts because it is notorious for porosity. At first I did get some but I tried sequencing the rod by striking it in the weld joint, dragging it over to the start point and then welding back over the area where I origionally struck the arc. This practically eliminated the porosity issue. This requires a rocking motion with the stinger because you are changing direction in the flat position. Vertical position requires a uphill arc strike, a downhill transfer to the start point then uphill weld progression. I'm glad I dont chew gum! GregH

 

[rbattelle]

BTW, I got a chance to run some of the new Lincoln Excalibur 7018 XXXX?

7018MR (Moisture Resisting). That's what I've been running for awhile now. I really like it. It's so easy it makes even my novice welds look nice!



I have baked it in the oven a few times, but couldn't detect any difference in the weld. I'm too new at this to detect small variations in welding quality.



Ryan

 

[GHarman]

Ryan, I'll stop over at the shop this afternoon and get the suffix # on the rod It has 4 Characters. GregH

 

[GHarman]

Ryan, The suffix on the Excalibur 7018, 3/32" is"1H4R" ( marked as; Excalibur 7018 1H4R). The suffix on the 1/8" Excalibur 7018 is H4R. I have as not run any of the 1/8" rod. FYI, is this the same as your 7018MR? GregH

 

[GiesJ]

Ryan, The suffix on the Excalibur 7018, 3/32" is"1H4R" ( marked as; Excalibur 7018 1H4R). The suffix on the 1/8" Excalibur 7018 is H4R. I have as not run any of the 1/8" rod. FYI, is this the same as your 7018MR? GregH

Yes - look here

looks like the trade name is MR and the AWS class is 1H4R.



edit to make link active