I6, V8 diesels in OTR and off road applications

[RustyJC]

It was a simple statement that engines with cylinders than can be divided by 3 can generally be smoother running... . 120° on engines divided by 3 allows for forces to cancel each other out easier..... 120° also helps with torque production.

If you want to believe all that, go right ahead. It's not worth debating the applied mechanics and physics.



Rusty

 

[Bill Stockard]

Many years ago while sitting at a bar in the Chicago area with some I-H engine engineers from Melrose Park (the home of the IH DT466 in line six cylinder), we were discussing in line engines and natural balance. In the discussion the even multiples of three cylinders came up in the conversation as a "naturally" balanced engine. We were discussing why many four cylinder in line engines used a crankshaft mounted balancing mechanism.



Bill

 

[RustyJC]

In the discussion the even multiples of three cylinders was discussed as a natural balanced engine. We were discussing why many four cylinder inline engines used a crankshaft mounted balancing mechanism.

Even multiples of 3 is an entirely different matter than the number of cylinders being evenly divisible by 3. I agree - an inline 6 and a V-12 (effectively, two inline 6s sharing a common crankcase) are inherently balanced engines. That's why we sold a LOT of V-12 integral engine/compressors for offshore oil platform use. An example (although these particular engines are V-16 models) of these units is shown below.



An inline 4 cylinder engine has secondary balance problems (i. e. , at twice engine speed) that require use of an auxiliary balancer to compensate. Even in the motorcycle world, inline 4s without an auxiliary balancer have a reputation as being "buzzy".



Rusty

 

[AH64ID]

Even multiples of 3 is an entirely different matter than the number of cylinders being evenly divisible by 3.



Rusty

I was just thinking about this thread when I was at the store and realized I left out the even number of cylinders! Yes big difference, I should have noticed it when you mentioned 3 and 9 cyl engines.

 

[Nyoest]

Ford 7. 3's were a great motor and most certainly were a medium duty enigne, they were the last good motor ford every used. Not an I6 but held their own as a V8.

Ummmm yesh well there were two 7. 3's. The indirect injection mechanical engine Harvey is talking about in the busses and uhauls and then the direct injection powerstroke which came later and is what I'm talking about in the 4200 IH trucks.



The idi was just one notch ahead of the olds 350 v 8 diesels. Oh, hey another v 8!

 

[AH64ID]

Sorry didn't specify, I too am talking about the later version, it was a great motor. . for a V.

 

[Wingate]

There are several v 8 diesels but they are the exception and not the rule.



Cat 3208 could be found in scrapers, medium duty fords and Oliver tractors.







Cat bulldozers d 9 and d 11 run v 8's. Oddly enough the d 10 uses a twelve cylinder!?

3208... can we just forget about that engine... what a slug...



yes, the D-9R ran a 3408, the D-10R ran a 3412, and the D-11R ran a 3508... If memory serves me, the D10R engine on the dyno would produce just about 700hp... the 3508 in the D-11R was the same as the 992G, about 1000hp.

The new D9T runs a C series inline 6. . can remember which, if its a C-15 or C-18, the new D10T runs a C-27... .

 

[Bill Stockard]

3208... can we just forget about that engine... what a slug... .

Yeah, but it was better than some of the other meduim duty truck engines available at the time.



It was a true throw away engine. If a major engine problem occured, not if but when, the simplest and most economical choice was a CAT Reman. Our truck shop became very proficient at replacing the 3208s in International, Ford, and GM medium duty trucks.



Bill

 

[Nyoest]

3208... can we just forget about that engine... what a slug...

...

It's no 3406 but it will start unaided down to some very low temps on only four cylinders. Not that you had much for a truck engine but it would start. They are pulling SOBs in the Oliver 2150 there are two around here that clean most farm stock classes out and they are FIELD tractors.

 

[Wingate]

Yeah, but it was better than some of the other meduim duty truck engines available at the time.







Bill

wow. . thats not saying much about the "others" then huh???



I guess the 3204/3208 had its place and time... TBH. . I have worked on very few, mainly because nobody in our field runs them... last ones i saw were several years ago on a Halliburton trailer that had been scrapped. .

 

[Wingate]

It's no 3406 but it will start unaided down to some very low temps on only four cylinders. Not that you had much for a truck engine but it would start. They are pulling SOBs in the Oliver 2150 there are two around here that clean most farm stock classes out and they are FIELD tractors.

Ya know, ever time I saw those engines, they reminded me of a Ford 460 gas engine!!...

 

[Bill Stockard]

wow. . thats not saying much about the "others" then huh???

Yep, when considering the other choices were a Cummins V555 or an IH DV550



Bill

 

[rscurtis]

Or a Detroit "Fuel Pincher".

 

[Wingate]

I tried to buy a used 1998 12V engine at a wrecking yard the other day... the guy said they did not test run it, but would guarantee it too run, and wanted $1800. 00 cash with a $750. 00 core!!!!!! I stumbled out the door like I had just went 12 rounds with a young Mike Tyson!!!. .

 

[Bill Stockard]

Or a Detroit "Fuel Pincher".

Yep, they came later... what a disaster!! I could never figure out why Ford was buying/installing GM/Detroit Fuel Pinchers for medium duty Fords... . must have been really cheap. They would have been better off staying with the CAT 3208s.



Bill

 

[HEMI®Dart]

The idi was just one notch ahead of the olds 350 v 8 diesels. Oh, hey another v 8!

This engine single-handedly destroyed the reputation of diesel power in the U. S

 

[rscurtis]

I've owned both, and can say that there's no comparison. The Olds engine smoked unless it was under light cruise. It did have reasonable power (1979) before they cut them back on the later versions. It blew up at 4300 miles, the dealer installed a short block, and I sold it. I also had a "B" model 6. 9, and an early 7. 3. They were both good, but the 7. 3 had to have a perfect GP system in order to start. It was markedly cleaner running than the 6. 9, but the 6. 9 was a better cold starter. A lot of the fuel savings on the 7. 3 went toward glow plugs and replacement controllers. It also needed new batteries every three years. Mechanically, both were virtaully trouble-free.

 

[bheiting]

I bought a used '82 Olds 88 w/350 "diesel". It was a beautiful loaded car w/30k miles. 70% off sticker price. How bad could it be? Every week something new failed of it. When the glow plug relay stuck and they all burned out, that was enough. I dropped in a gas 350 from the junk yard and sold it, then bought my first Toyota and have driven them ever since. My dad always drove Olds and I carried on the the tradition, until I got conned with that POS. It definitely was not my dad's Oldsmobile.

 

[Gonzo 1066]

It's no 3406 but it will start unaided down to some very low temps on only four cylinders. Not that you had much for a truck engine but it would start. They are pulling SOBs in the Oliver 2150 there are two around here that clean most farm stock classes out and they are FIELD tractors.

Really> the Oliver with a 3406 cleans out the field class... ?? Never seen one that could keep with a good IH 1066 with a little I6 414ci engine in it.

 

[Nyoest]

Really> the Oliver with a 3406 cleans out the field class... ?? Never seen one that could keep with a good IH 1066 with a little I6 414ci engine in it.

They are olivers with 3208's. And yes they kick ace in every farm class they are in with a five mile an hour speed limit Farm being the key word in that sentence, these tractors have a hydraulic drive T/A that is over/direct/under that can switch under full power. The engine rpm never changes. There are the hotter classes that are dominated by the red and "other" green tractors... ...