I6, V8 diesels in OTR and off road applications

[Wingate]

WOW!! It must take a big dyno. Is the dyno portable or do you take the engine to it and tie the engine down? Yep, I'd love to hear one run turning out 1500 HP. Do you have a dyno in the Longview shop?



Bill

We have three dynos in our Longview shop... The smallest is only capable of holding about 2000 hp, but is good to 5000 RPM, our middle dyno will hold about 4000, but only good to 3000rpm, and we have the big boy that will hold about 65-6800hp@ 1000RPM. From what I understand, we are one af 2 places in the U. S. that have a big enough dyno and fuel gas supply to take a 3616 Cat to full load..... thats 360 Liters. . !!!

 

[Bill Stockard]

We have three dynos in our Longview shop... The smallest is only capable of holding about 2000 hp, but is good to 5000 RPM, our middle dyno will hold about 4000, but only good to 3000rpm, and we have the big boy that will hold about 65-6800hp@ 1000RPM. From what I understand, we are one af 2 places in the U. S. that have a big enough dyno and fuel gas supply to take a 3616 Cat to full load..... thats 360 Liters. . !!!

Yep, I bet it takes a large natural gas supply system and lines to feed that monster under a full load on the dyno. Intereating those facilities are in Longview. I knew you had big shops there, but no idea of what was inside.



Bill

 

[BIGNASTY]

I guess that the 3408 cat/3208 cat/1150,1160 cat/VT903 Cummins/E9500V8 Mack/8v92 detroit and a host of others that I just cant think of because im laughing so hard about someone talking about something that they have ABSOULTLY no idea of what they are spouting off about. The main reason was because of weight. To say that some of these motors were unrelieable may be true but the 3408 cat was a massive motor MORE POWER than what anyone needed for the highway. It's main drawback fuel. Price went from $. 75 a gal. to $1. 75 a gal overnite. The other problems were trying to find someone that could work on it. Same with the DD 8v92 Bad A** motor if you didnt mind oil leaks and they are STILL on the road in some bus app's. NO V8'S THAT'S ALMOST AS BIG A LAUGH AS SAYING OUR little CUMMINS IS A BIG RIG MOTOR. :-laf As far as throw away motors IMO it's a throw away if it dosent have sleeves some of the Class 8 Mechanics on this site would be able to expound more on that. BUT NO V8'S in OTR trucks :-laf:-laf:-laf MB has a V8 pending approvel for OTR trucks now. Its in Europe and doing just fine for a V8 OTR throw away motor :-laf:-laf Cummins V6 and V8 Diesel Engines - Sneak Peek







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New Cummins V6 and V8 Diesel Engines - Sneak Peek



Powerful, Efficient, Clean



From the February, 2009 issue of Diesel Power



By Trevor Reed



Illustrators: Courtesy of U. S. Dept. of Energy, Cummins



























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New V-6 and V-8 Cummins engines are on the way. At the end of July, Cummins Inc. announced that it will "develop and manufacture a family of high-performance, light-duty diesel engines. " This follows nine years of work with the Department of Energy, where the new V-6 and V-8 powerplants were tested in a Dodge Durango and a Ram 1500. So what happened?













Comparison of Phase 2 V-6...









read full caption















What happened was this: The new Cummins V-engines made great power, produced superior fuel mileage, were fairly quiet, and met the government's strict '07 emissions guidelines that require the exhaust to be cleaner than the air in Los Angeles. The results were so good that one phrase gets repeated over and over in DOE/Cummins documents: "There is a path to market for the light truck diesel. " We think that's absolutely correct, and here's what we know about these engines that should be available by the '09 model year.















The Engines

The new Cummins diesels are a 4. 2L (256ci) V-6 and a 5. 6L (342ci) V-8, both using a 90-degree V-block design with aluminum heads and an iron block. They use single overhead camshafts, a new EGR system, a single turbo, common rail fueling with piezo injectors, and a diesel particulate filter. The V-6 weighs in at 663 pounds, and the V-8 tips the scales at 788 pounds, compared to the current 5. 9L inline-six engines that weigh about 1,100 pounds.







Read more: New Cummins V6 and V8 Diesel Engines - Exclusive Preview - Diesel Power Magazine

 

[BIGNASTY]

In Cummins 10-K annual report with the Security and Exchange Commission, our engines are listed under the engine section as: Light Duty Automotive - customers: Chrysler and Class A RVs. Medium and Heavy Duty are a separate section. That's not very reassuring.

I think your correct on the spec's on the motors as far as usage. MY FIL has a Prevost Motor home and the cummins ISX is rated for 650 hp at 1950ft T. But go to Cummins truck division and We couldn't find that motor. It was rated at 600 hp max. Same motor? more than likely just set up different per usage. We were trying to find out about filters needed. Come to find out they are the same filters. So I would think that they are the same just a different tune,

 

[Wingate]

I think your correct on the spec's on the motors as far as usage. MY FIL has a Prevost Motor home and the cummins ISX is rated for 650 hp at 1950ft T. But go to Cummins truck division and We couldn't find that motor. It was rated at 600 hp max. Same motor? more than likely just set up different per usage. We were trying to find out about filters needed. Come to find out they are the same filters. So I would think that they are the same just a different tune,

probably just an ECM change... thse days, its its usually keystrokes, not turning screws that get ya a hp. bump. .

They are required to install an EPA certification tag somewhere on the engine identifying the fueling change.....

 

[BIGNASTY]

probably just an ECM change... thse days, its its usually keystrokes, not turning screws that get ya a hp. bump. .

They are required to install an EPA certification tag somewhere on the engine identifying the fueling change.....

He asked me about fuel filters and oil filters and I will help him on that but to say or do anything else on that HIGH DOLLAR coach ( I have never figured out why they call it a coach) Im not going to touch it. It is an amazing hunk of equipment. I helped him drive it home for him from Mira Loma Ca talk about power just step on it and away you go. Just cant get used to sitting so low. Cant see over the cars. He did ok but he took over about Barstow Ca to see how it ran. I ran back to the john and came back and before I even got to the drivers area I said I think you should slow down a LOT. he didnt even have a clue that he was doing 80. He said that he was just keeping up with the other bus's TOUR BUS. But they have a licence that you dont yet. Ill just keep my little Come a part and TT.

 

[BIGNASTY]

Yet one more v 8, a cummins 555. Apparently the shoddy little brother to the 903 Just got one in at the shop in a Link Belt crane with engine trouble. Ought to be fun!

Didnt the VT 903 come out of some kind of farm equipment COMBINE or Hay bailer ? It sounded like a giant blender in a truck wound tight :-laf

 

[Nyoest]

Didnt the VT 903 come out of some kind of farm equipment COMBINE or Hay bailer ? It sounded like a giant blender in a truck wound tight :-laf

Yes it did. See below.

There are several v 8 diesels but they are the exception and not the rule.



Cat 3208 could be found in scrapers, medium duty fords and Oliver tractors.



Cummins 903 were placed in steigers first tractor, the tiger.



Perkins v 8s were also placed in Massey ferguson tractors, the one I'm most familiar with is the 1150.



Cat bulldozers d 9 and d 11 run v 8's. Oddly enough the d 10 uses a twelve cylinder!?

Anyone I've talked to about the 903's said they weren't bad as long as you kept them at about 2,800 rpm!!!!! That is a slug of iron to be rolling around that fast!



No one has had one good thing to say about the 555. I'm knee deep in one right now and can honestly say it will be my last.

 

[BIGNASTY]

Yes it did. See below.







Anyone I've talked to about the 903's said they weren't bad as long as you kept them at about 2,800 rpm!!!!! That is a slug of iron to be rolling around that fast!



No one has had one good thing to say about the 555. I'm knee deep in one right now and can honestly say it will be my last.

I agree the V8's were heavy iron and I didnt have any of them but ran with a few guy's that ran the Big Cat they could run and hard for a long time. My 1693 was a IL 6 but ran almost as strong and was just as heavy Cat's were the big HP in my early tucking days fuel was cheap. :-laf 903's were insane RPM

 

[Dl5treez]

Scania makes exceptionally reliable V8 configuration class 8 truck diesel engines.

The tag on a 7. 3L Powerstroke under the hood of a Ford F250/350/450/550 says "Light Heavy Duty. "

Not sure what the 6. 0L says, nor what the tags on the T444E and VT365 say, but there had never been a tag saying "Light Duty" on any of the Powerstrokes when the myth perpetuated on the internet began around 1999.

I'll take a picture of the ISB6. 7 in my '08 F-650 tomorrow so ya'll can see the differences 'tween it and the ones in the Rams.

FYI Powerstroke is spellchecked in TDR posts. :-laf

 

[HBarlow]

I haven't looked in years but when I looked at the engine data plates on my '01 and '06 Cummins engines the description was "medium heavy duty" whereas the Furd and OM V8 diesels were described as light heavy duty.

THAT is the reason why many of us on the forum say a Furd NoPowerStroke is a light duty engine.

 

[Dl5treez]

Pics

2003 7. 3L Powerstroke---unfortunately a CARB compliant truck, but it was slim pickins trying to get a new 7. 3 truck at the time I got it
#ad


2007 5. 9 ISB in my '07 2500
#ad


some pics of the 6. 7ISB in my '08 F-650
#ad


#ad


#ad


#ad

 

[BIGNASTY]

The 7. 3 Power Joke has been in school bus's for a long time and has done a good job in many other app's. It was Fraud that made changes in design and International told them its wrong. But would Fraud listen NO their Fraud. BUD dont mean to tell anyone how to treat they pride and joy but there is a thing call a pressure washer :-laf

 

[Nyoest]

I haven't looked in years but when I looked at the engine data plates on my '01 and '06 Cummins engines the description was "medium heavy duty" whereas the Furd and OM V8 diesels were described as light heavy duty.



THAT is the reason why many of us on the forum say a Furd NoPowerStroke is a light duty engine.

No disrespect Harvey but isn't this a little like trying to decide whether to buy a blind horse or lame mule?



I can understand if some people don't like brand x but good lord who really cares if it's a minor major or a major minor?

 

[Dl5treez]

The 7. 3 Power Joke has been in school bus's for a long time and has done a good job in many other app's. It was Fraud that made changes in design and International told them its wrong. But would Fraud listen NO their Fraud. BUD dont mean to tell anyone how to treat they pride and joy but there is a thing call a pressure washer :-laf

:-laf That truck would be filthy in a day anyway. It's a money maker, not a show truck and everything works so I don't spray it off on a weekly basis.

The EPA killed the 7. 3L, unfortunately.

 

[NIsaacs]

The in line 6, Hall Scott 1091 cid gasser was the baddest of the bad in it's day. The military used them in WII, in Diamond T's to haul tanks. After the war when they become surplus the Loggers in the Northwest used them. They used two fuel pumps with a 5/8 fuel line or some were propane. I am not that old to know first hand:-laf but lotsa old time truckers told me about them.



Nick

 

[Gonzo 1066]

The in line 6, Hall Scott 1091 cid gasser was the baddest of the bad in it's day. The military used them in WII, in Diamond T's to haul tanks. After the war when they become surplus the Loggers in the Northwest used them. They used two fuel pumps with a 5/8 fuel line or some were propane. I am not that old to know first hand:-laf but lotsa old time truckers told me about them.



Nick

One of the guys in our local antique Tractor-Truck club has a I-6 Hall-Scott. Its on a stand and he fires it up at the show. . Really quite a interesting engine. . Twin plugs, two distributors. LARGE carb. .

 

[RMcKinney]

HBarlow forgot mention

The inline 6 has a natural self balancing thing with the piston position and firing order.

I'm pretty sure this is one of the reasons they last so long.

RMcKinney 1995 2500 270,000 miles on it with nothing wrong.

You are not naive, dumb, or misinformed. For the last 30 years or more all OTR truck tractors have used inline six cylinder engines. I believe all farm equipment and road building equipment does also.



The simple reason why inline six cylinder engines are in widespread use is they are less expensive to build and repair, more practical to work on, more economical to operate and overhaul, are capable of providing one million miles of service, and they produce huge torque at clutch engagement rpm and max torque just above idle.



V8 diesels are ONLY in use for transportation applications in Furd and Obama Motors light trucks. They are throw away engines compared to our Cummins engines.



An old friend of mine who has been a Chevrolet truck salesman for 30 years or longer was dumb enough to try to sell me a GM/Isuzu diesel several years ago. I laughed at him and told him when all OTR tractors began running V8 diesels to give me a call. He said lots of them were running V8s! He was so dumb he thought that the OTR tractors with dual exhaust stacks behind the cab were V8s!



A typical loyal nobama motors fan and salesman.

 

[JUeckert]

I'm not sure what you were attempting to say. You both adopted my agument as your own and attempted again to refute it.



I repeat my earlier statement. V8 diesels used in light truck applications are throw away engines. Cummins ISBs are not. They provide very long service as new and can easily and cheaply be freshened up or rebuilt.



Furd 7. 3s, 6. ohhs, 6. 4s, and now 6. 7s are not now and never were medium duty engines. Look at the engine tag and you will clearly see light duty. Not even Furd or obama motors ever claimed their engines were medium duty.



Neither is a Furd F-450 a medium duty truck.

You stand corrected. Look under the hood of a 4000 series international with a 444e[7. 3] and get back to us with what the emissions label on those engines say. . The tag is there for emissions that the engine is capable of passing. Not wether it's a medium duty engine[it is] or not. The tag on the 6. 5 in one of my gmc 3500's says hd emissions, i think we can all agree it's not a hd engine. . And as mentioned correctly by a previous poster, all parent bore diesel's were consindered throw away, includeing the cummins. .

 

[AEdelheit]

The tag on the 6. 5 in one of my gmc 3500's says hd emissions, i think we can all agree it's not a hd engine. .

I think you stand corrected, the 6. 5 is in fact a Huge Disaster = HD!