Hee hee
I thought that would bring a few darts flying.
I really do want to see the PM, don't you?
I thought that would bring a few darts flying.
I really do want to see the PM, don't you?
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I'm swithing from DTT to ATS, need tests to compare
- Thread starter Cummins Corvette
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Originally posted by EShaw
Heetseeker_1
Only an automobile?... ... ... ... ... Now you've done it!
Better suit up... ... . it's gonna get hot... ..... seek and you shall find.
:{
Eric
LOL, ok... ... I got way mad last night.
Re: Something wrong here
I feel mildy insulted that you think I don't know the difference between lockup and the 3-4 shift.
We all (well most of us) know that the overdrive ratio is . 69:1 . You might be mistaking the 3-4 shift as lockup though.
You're right on the 100 rpm drop when just cruising. I said WOT rmp drop. You said that your truck is at 2000 rpm in lockup at 70 mph, the same as mine. Here is a little math:
2000rpm/x = 0. 69/ 1 In this case x will be the rpm in third gear locked up at the same speed (70 mph).
. 69x = 2000
2000/. 69 = 2898. 55072
The EXACT rpm in third gear locked at that same speed is 2898. 55072 rpm. You're about 400 rpm off there buddy.
Yes, I do know the difference between the 3-4 shift and lockup.
I feel mildy insulted that you think I don't know the difference between lockup and the 3-4 shift.
We all (well most of us) know that the overdrive ratio is . 69:1 . You might be mistaking the 3-4 shift as lockup though.
You're right on the 100 rpm drop when just cruising. I said WOT rmp drop. You said that your truck is at 2000 rpm in lockup at 70 mph, the same as mine. Here is a little math: 2000rpm/x = 0. 69/ 1 In this case x will be the rpm in third gear locked up at the same speed (70 mph).
. 69x = 2000
2000/. 69 = 2898. 55072
The EXACT rpm in third gear locked at that same speed is 2898. 55072 rpm. You're about 400 rpm off there buddy.
Yes, I do know the difference between the 3-4 shift and lockup.
This is dejavu all over again. I find it utterly amazing that when a person purchased an item, and that item didn't perform as expected, he is chastised for trying another vendor, and telling everyone of his experiences.
Exactly... If something is wrong, you have the right (actually you have the responsibility) to do something about it.
If you are happy with your DTT, and you call ATS, they will answer your questions and NOT try to sell you a new transmission. Same goes for Bill at DTT. Both shops and their respective representation are there primarily to give you information. If you inquire about buying a new transmission, then they will BOTH try to sell you one.
No, actually it DOES REALLY MATTER! I just called Don and Clint at ATS. But I must first tell you where I'm coming from. Get ready, and read slowly, because everyone reading this must understand what I'm going to say.
I PURCHASED a new transmission from ATS for my 2002 truck. At 11,000 miles, with the power that I'm producing (475 RWHP), I desperately needed a new transmission. I did my homework, and chose the ATS (read about it in the other thread). I am not sponsored. I have the receipt to prove it if anyone wants to see it. I'm telling it the way I see it.
AGAIN, I'm not sponsored, and I'm not advertising for anyone. I have nothing to gain from this personally. I do feel that I have the responsibility to correct people when they seems to be speaking from their nether-regions. I only say this because a comment such as "It also seems, dare I say... " is an assumption. You know what they say about assumptions...
On with the story... When there are heated debates coming from a topic like this, with a very passionate following for both sides, there are bound to be very "colorful" accountings of what is happening to each of the products, both pro and con. So, it does matter when a person starts making assumptions just to fuel the fire. I was quite upset when reading this thread - so upset that I called Don and Clint at ATS and asked them both what the @#!$ was going on. I asked Don straight out (because remember - I have nothing to gain, or to loose personally) if they were sponsoring Chris. Don got upset and said "absolutely not, where did you hear that crap" - That means to me that Chris IS NOT BEING SPONSORED. So, as for Chris telling everyong about his experience, it looks to hold quite a bit of water seeing as how he is going to spend his money - again - for another transmission. So, then I asked if they were interested in the DTT core. Don also said that they were not. Now, you might say "of course they [ATS] aren't going to admit that they want the DTT transmission", but Don went one further - read this carefully...
They do not want to put an ATS transmission in Chris's truck... They would rather DTT fix whatever problem exists. Talk about shocking - how can this be - they aren't trying to sell Chris a transmission? Unbelievable? no, not really... Guess that answers a few questions, and is one of the reasons that I chose ATS - they are absolute stand-up people, with very high morals and standards. So to answer Mopar-muscle, "whats ATS paying you for that DTT core ??? i wonder what will happen to it ????" - I would say that only DTT will know, because ATS doesn't want any part of it.
I don't judge anyone until I see the evidence. So, why are you calling ATS liars and cheats, and flaming them. Have you talked to them about their transmission? No, I almost forgot. You don't want to call them for fear that they might try to sell you something you don't need. Why are you so down on ATS? Only you know. Talk about REALLY being TOOOO prejudice - you won't even make a phone call.
Joel
Exactly... If something is wrong, you have the right (actually you have the responsibility) to do something about it.
If you are happy with your DTT, and you call ATS, they will answer your questions and NOT try to sell you a new transmission. Same goes for Bill at DTT. Both shops and their respective representation are there primarily to give you information. If you inquire about buying a new transmission, then they will BOTH try to sell you one.
No, actually it DOES REALLY MATTER! I just called Don and Clint at ATS. But I must first tell you where I'm coming from. Get ready, and read slowly, because everyone reading this must understand what I'm going to say.
I PURCHASED a new transmission from ATS for my 2002 truck. At 11,000 miles, with the power that I'm producing (475 RWHP), I desperately needed a new transmission. I did my homework, and chose the ATS (read about it in the other thread). I am not sponsored. I have the receipt to prove it if anyone wants to see it. I'm telling it the way I see it.
AGAIN, I'm not sponsored, and I'm not advertising for anyone. I have nothing to gain from this personally. I do feel that I have the responsibility to correct people when they seems to be speaking from their nether-regions. I only say this because a comment such as "It also seems, dare I say... " is an assumption. You know what they say about assumptions...
On with the story... When there are heated debates coming from a topic like this, with a very passionate following for both sides, there are bound to be very "colorful" accountings of what is happening to each of the products, both pro and con. So, it does matter when a person starts making assumptions just to fuel the fire. I was quite upset when reading this thread - so upset that I called Don and Clint at ATS and asked them both what the @#!$ was going on. I asked Don straight out (because remember - I have nothing to gain, or to loose personally) if they were sponsoring Chris. Don got upset and said "absolutely not, where did you hear that crap" - That means to me that Chris IS NOT BEING SPONSORED. So, as for Chris telling everyong about his experience, it looks to hold quite a bit of water seeing as how he is going to spend his money - again - for another transmission. So, then I asked if they were interested in the DTT core. Don also said that they were not. Now, you might say "of course they [ATS] aren't going to admit that they want the DTT transmission", but Don went one further - read this carefully...
They do not want to put an ATS transmission in Chris's truck... They would rather DTT fix whatever problem exists. Talk about shocking - how can this be - they aren't trying to sell Chris a transmission? Unbelievable? no, not really... Guess that answers a few questions, and is one of the reasons that I chose ATS - they are absolute stand-up people, with very high morals and standards. So to answer Mopar-muscle, "whats ATS paying you for that DTT core ??? i wonder what will happen to it ????" - I would say that only DTT will know, because ATS doesn't want any part of it.
I don't judge anyone until I see the evidence. So, why are you calling ATS liars and cheats, and flaming them. Have you talked to them about their transmission? No, I almost forgot. You don't want to call them for fear that they might try to sell you something you don't need. Why are you so down on ATS? Only you know. Talk about REALLY being TOOOO prejudice - you won't even make a phone call.
Joel
ps- thanks for the test ideas, consider it done.
heh... . Thanks Joel!! I did (still do) want to get sponsored for a transmission; a free transmission would be very cool, but I am not getting a free transmission. I want an excellent racing transmission, and I am going to end up paying a little (maybe a lot) more than everyone else here for it (billit shafts and stuff). 
Now what would you like to know about the differences so it can happen before I swap? That is the purpose of this thread. I am not going to try and stuff orange or any other flavor or transmission down anyone's throat. Speaking of phone conversations..... when I called Bill and asked him what he thinks of ATS... ... ... WOW!! That guy hates ATS bad. OTOH. . ATS has nothing but good to say about Bill's transmission. I like the ATS aproach a lot better.
Now what would you like to know about the differences so it can happen before I swap? That is the purpose of this thread. I am not going to try and stuff orange or any other flavor or transmission down anyone's throat. Speaking of phone conversations..... when I called Bill and asked him what he thinks of ATS... ... ... WOW!! That guy hates ATS bad. OTOH. . ATS has nothing but good to say about Bill's transmission. I like the ATS aproach a lot better.
Bob Wagner
TDR MEMBER
Just a question, no flame intended
Joel, Why won't Don or Clint post the response's here on the boards, instead of going through you?
Thanks,
Bob
Joel, Why won't Don or Clint post the response's here on the boards, instead of going through you?
Thanks,
Bob
Clint and Don work about 70 to 90 hours a week. And no, I am not kidding or exaggerating. Would you rather hang out posting or sleep? Maybe spend a few seconds with your family?
Originally posted by Cummins Corvette
I want an excellent racing transmission, and I am going to end up paying a little (maybe a lot) more than everyone else here for it (billit shafts and stuff).
Now what would you like to know about the differences so it can happen before I swap? That is the purpose of this thread.
OK, now I understand why you are considering the ATS transmission, for racing and the locked shifting will give you somewhat better performance.
I want a trailer pulling transmission and want nothing to do with locked shifting. But, everyone has different wants and needs.
So the obvious test for an ATS racing transmission vs your current DTT transmission is the quarter mile speed and ET. Before and after numbers will tell the tale on performance on laying down HP/torque to the pavement. It will be interesting to see the numbers.
As a trailer puller I am interested in tests that demonstrate torque multiplication at low rpms and a 7-8 percent grade with a unlocked TC in 3rd.
what's up?
Ok, but what's up with the super secret PM?
Ok, but what's up with the super secret PM?
Chris ,
I have been so deafened by your silent opinion these last few months on these transmission threads that i finally had to comment.
Bill says i that i shouldnt even bother with this because your biggest problem is that you know best and wont listen .
People have to learn to weed out the BS' ers from the guys that actually know what they are talking about.
I am not going to get into a debate with you first because i dont have the time you seem to have, between work and trying to tune our race car we are just hopping, secondly because you just cant seem to listen. Look at your invoice again, it says repaired, and it also in in Canadian Funds just to clarify the math.
You wouldnt listen to Bill when you were up here, you wouldnt listen to Piers, you talk to Joe Donelly like he's an idiot, you were complaining Kurt's turbos were too expensive, Diesel Dynamics were jerks because they wouldnt tell you how stuff was built. Do you ever think maybe there is a common denominator here??
Chris, i may be younger than you but i respect these people and i am trying to learn from them and their experience, most of these guys wont even bother to dignify some of the things you are arguing with them about with an answer mostly because it makes no sense and again because you wont listen.
As for your smoke issue, why do you think guys like TST, Piers,Lawrence at DD, Mitchell, ect. spend time designing and tuning these plates and power modifications for different applications. Maybe you should try putting your plate back in, listen to these guys man, they know what they are talking about. They have experience.
I have been so deafened by your silent opinion these last few months on these transmission threads that i finally had to comment.
Bill says i that i shouldnt even bother with this because your biggest problem is that you know best and wont listen .
People have to learn to weed out the BS' ers from the guys that actually know what they are talking about.
I am not going to get into a debate with you first because i dont have the time you seem to have, between work and trying to tune our race car we are just hopping, secondly because you just cant seem to listen. Look at your invoice again, it says repaired, and it also in in Canadian Funds just to clarify the math.
You wouldnt listen to Bill when you were up here, you wouldnt listen to Piers, you talk to Joe Donelly like he's an idiot, you were complaining Kurt's turbos were too expensive, Diesel Dynamics were jerks because they wouldnt tell you how stuff was built. Do you ever think maybe there is a common denominator here??
Chris, i may be younger than you but i respect these people and i am trying to learn from them and their experience, most of these guys wont even bother to dignify some of the things you are arguing with them about with an answer mostly because it makes no sense and again because you wont listen.
As for your smoke issue, why do you think guys like TST, Piers,Lawrence at DD, Mitchell, ect. spend time designing and tuning these plates and power modifications for different applications. Maybe you should try putting your plate back in, listen to these guys man, they know what they are talking about. They have experience.
This will be my only post in this thread. I would like to clarify one thing. The lock to lock shifts are an option. You can use it if you want to. I mainly use the lockup abillity for engine breaking and when I am stuck in traffic coasting along at a slow constant speed. The fluid coupling works the way it is suppose to.
I've stayed out of these until now, but I gotta weigh in on this thread before it gets killed.
Cummins Corvette, I don't know you personally, but given your posts in this thread alone, I can't possibly imagine you writing an unbiased, factual account of a product comparison.
As a DTT user, I am totally stumped by your comments about temperature problems, needing to shift into neutral at stoplights, and driving around unlocked at freeway speeds. I have none of those issues. I work my truck like a dog towing trailers in the mountains and stop/go traffic, it's a daily driver, and once in awhile it eats a Powerstroke for lunch. I have NEVER seen my temp gauge go above 170. 99% of the time it sits at or below 145. At freeway speeds my transmission is always locked, unless I put my foot to the floor to pass somebody.
And for the record, DTT's customer service is second to none, and the same goes for their installer Bob Berends. I can personally attest to that.
Have you called Bill or one of his installers to ask for help with your issues? I'm no expert, but there's something wrong with a transmission behaving as you describe. You owe him that before you bash his products here, when you know good and well he can't defend himself on this forum without getting whacked by the moderators. If you went against his recommendations on TC specs, won't call him personally to get help, and then smear his products on this forum, I'm sorry, but you're not the guy to be writing a product comparison.
Jim D
P. S. You want a diesel race truck at Utah's altitude, and don't want smoke at stoplights? This is DTT's fault how?
Cummins Corvette, I don't know you personally, but given your posts in this thread alone, I can't possibly imagine you writing an unbiased, factual account of a product comparison.
As a DTT user, I am totally stumped by your comments about temperature problems, needing to shift into neutral at stoplights, and driving around unlocked at freeway speeds. I have none of those issues. I work my truck like a dog towing trailers in the mountains and stop/go traffic, it's a daily driver, and once in awhile it eats a Powerstroke for lunch. I have NEVER seen my temp gauge go above 170. 99% of the time it sits at or below 145. At freeway speeds my transmission is always locked, unless I put my foot to the floor to pass somebody.
And for the record, DTT's customer service is second to none, and the same goes for their installer Bob Berends. I can personally attest to that.
Have you called Bill or one of his installers to ask for help with your issues? I'm no expert, but there's something wrong with a transmission behaving as you describe. You owe him that before you bash his products here, when you know good and well he can't defend himself on this forum without getting whacked by the moderators. If you went against his recommendations on TC specs, won't call him personally to get help, and then smear his products on this forum, I'm sorry, but you're not the guy to be writing a product comparison.
Jim D
P. S. You want a diesel race truck at Utah's altitude, and don't want smoke at stoplights? This is DTT's fault how?
Uhmm, did I miss something? Joel could you please point out as to where I called ATS a liar or cheats? I have nothing against ATS... I have never used their products so how can I know what they are like? The only reason I choose DTT in the first place was because they are 2 hours from my house and they had great feedback here on TDR. Otherwise I would have looked more carefully. Joel, if you could please enlighten me as to why I should call ATS when I do not need a new trans. IF and WHEN this transmission goes out you can rest assured that I will call ATS among others. Does this mean that I will go with ATS... . lets wait till we have feedback.
I like many others are just getting real tired of reading numerous threads on how bad Chris A transmission is. Yet he refuses to try to fix what he has. Why? Only he knows. It isn't my problem. We all can spend our money as we see fit. However there are others that are running alot more HP than Chris that don't see anywhere near 500 rpm drop at WOT.
As for a test... . WOT going from fluid coupling to locked..... how far do your RPM's drop. And use the same method that you are using with the DTT trans. If the DTT transmission is 500... . than what will the ATS be with less fluid coupling, 700, maybe 800. Of course that is unless there is indeed something wrong with the DTT TC in which case the ATS would be less.
Wow!
Jim D,
spoken perfectly.
Jim D,
spoken perfectly.
joel richards , thats all well and good , if i lived where you live i would possibly consider ATS also , its better to drive a few hundreds miles to address a possible concern i guess as opposed to 1100 miles or more , though DTT does have a good installer in the area . me i'm over 3000 away , but what was (and still is) available to me in the area was not good enough in my eyes to get it local . if i want a heat generating slip into lockup i would have saved my money and kept the factory POS TC .
as far as ATS possibly doing something with a core, the TC core is what i speak of . the only part of interest to anyone on gods green earth is the stator . i guess maybe i'm stirring the pot a bit to much ??? shame on me , i have no clue what they want or do not want , but there is a 91 tc going to end up on someones floor ...
edit , i didn't read this page , stakeman , i'm not expecting a reply , but my 93 TC creeps in traffic at 8 mph in fluid coupling , i drove a stick once , that is not how i want to creep at an idle , but then again its nice i assume to be able to choose the gear you want to idle along in , can't do that in an auto unless you have a full manual VB ????
chris , i still think its 3-4 shift . with a 91 , thats about what i saw on the 3-4 shift, TC locking was about 100-125 , less than 100 now with my 93 . again what do i know , i still swear my non race locks at about the 1000 ft mark on the track , Bill swears up and down that its not , i know when mine locks ...
you aren't pleased with how tight the TC is , thats your biggest gripe it appears to me . funny thing is alot of the competition claims a lower stall speed than DTT , if this were the case then we would see more complaints of having to fight the truck at a stop light , i only see that gripe from DTT equipped trucks .
be careful of a REAL stall test , things inside your trans WILL BREAK , been there , done it .
the way the DTT non race TC is designed under WOT the TC is not going to lock till the engine speed is within [censored] rpm ( don't want to give away anymore secerts) of the trans speed ,thats the way it was explained to me , at 400 rpm its not going to lock . if it is then there is something wrong with the TC , its possible , i hadn't seen a bad one in the 10-15( more ??)i was involved with .
as far as ATS possibly doing something with a core, the TC core is what i speak of . the only part of interest to anyone on gods green earth is the stator . i guess maybe i'm stirring the pot a bit to much ??? shame on me , i have no clue what they want or do not want , but there is a 91 tc going to end up on someones floor ...
edit , i didn't read this page , stakeman , i'm not expecting a reply , but my 93 TC creeps in traffic at 8 mph in fluid coupling , i drove a stick once , that is not how i want to creep at an idle , but then again its nice i assume to be able to choose the gear you want to idle along in , can't do that in an auto unless you have a full manual VB ????
chris , i still think its 3-4 shift . with a 91 , thats about what i saw on the 3-4 shift, TC locking was about 100-125 , less than 100 now with my 93 . again what do i know , i still swear my non race locks at about the 1000 ft mark on the track , Bill swears up and down that its not , i know when mine locks ...
you aren't pleased with how tight the TC is , thats your biggest gripe it appears to me . funny thing is alot of the competition claims a lower stall speed than DTT , if this were the case then we would see more complaints of having to fight the truck at a stop light , i only see that gripe from DTT equipped trucks .
be careful of a REAL stall test , things inside your trans WILL BREAK , been there , done it .
the way the DTT non race TC is designed under WOT the TC is not going to lock till the engine speed is within [censored] rpm ( don't want to give away anymore secerts) of the trans speed ,thats the way it was explained to me , at 400 rpm its not going to lock . if it is then there is something wrong with the TC , its possible , i hadn't seen a bad one in the 10-15( more ??)i was involved with .
Last edited:
Re: Just a question, no flame intended
Well, Bob... I choose to post here. I don't ask permission to do so. They don't go through me! I just tell it like it is. You see, I feel that I'm on this mission in life - expose the bull****, get people to think for themselves, and life will be good. Now you know why I post.
BTW, I'm pretty sure that they are going to be posting real soon. It'll be interesting to see what people have to say if that happens.
Joel
Well, Bob... I choose to post here. I don't ask permission to do so. They don't go through me! I just tell it like it is. You see, I feel that I'm on this mission in life - expose the bull****, get people to think for themselves, and life will be good. Now you know why I post.
BTW, I'm pretty sure that they are going to be posting real soon. It'll be interesting to see what people have to say if that happens.
Joel
Spool up????
Seems to me that the B1 may have something to do with that.
As for DTT's trannies and temps I have a 11K lb. truck that gets a lot of daily driving and it rarely goes to 180°, usualy around 140°.
Daily driver/Race truck
Quick spool up/More air
Tight transmission/Cooler temps
I think choices have to be made on these issues. You can set up for racing, towing or daily driver but not all three at once in my opinion. Where it may be strong in some respects it will lack in others.
Garrett
Seems to me that the B1 may have something to do with that.
As for DTT's trannies and temps I have a 11K lb. truck that gets a lot of daily driving and it rarely goes to 180°, usualy around 140°.
Daily driver/Race truck
Quick spool up/More air
Tight transmission/Cooler temps
I think choices have to be made on these issues. You can set up for racing, towing or daily driver but not all three at once in my opinion. Where it may be strong in some respects it will lack in others.
Garrett
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