Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Injector & Turbo combos

[Cliffman]

What was the engine water temps when you were pulling the hill. I remember my 94 auto had a problem with the transmission oil adding to the water temp thus adding to the EGT's. Not likely but worth looking into IMO. Also, what about a partially blocked intercooler???

 

[Koa Man]

DLBurns,

Did you get an increase in power on the level and/or while not towing with the turbo and injector change?

 

[DLBurns]

What was the engine water temps when you were pulling the hill. I remember my 94 auto had a problem with the transmission oil adding to the water temp thus adding to the EGT's. Not likely but worth looking into IMO. Also, what about a partially blocked intercooler???

Cliff, the ambient outside temps were 85° and my water temp never got over 200° My transmission gauge was reading eratically the whole trip ( been doing this for awhile just neve consistently) When I looked at the gauge as I neared the summit in second gear at 27 MPH it was reading 220° :--) Don't know if this is correct or not as my water temps didn't get that hot. I do know that I will have a TC lock up switch before I make my next trip. If I'm gonna have to drive this pig in 2nd gear I want to insure the TC is locked up!

 

[DLBurns]

DLBurns,

Did you get an increase in power on the level and/or while not towing with the turbo and injector change?

10-4!!! power really came on after I put in the 1. 5's and the HX35.

My intent was to add enough power to pull these grades at the speed limit and have a little in reserve to pass the occasional trucker if I needed to. I could not get there with my EZ box and HY9.

I primarily use this truck to pull my 12K fiver, I don't use if for a daily driver and only occasionaly take it out on the weekends. It's 5 years old and I only have 34,000 miles on it.

I never intended to race or sled pull with it, just want something to pull my trailer and not be a hazard to other traffic on the road.

Don is sending me some 1. 6's to try, supposed to run a little coler. With these I may be able to bolt on a 16 and not have it become a lag pig. If that don't work???? it may be back to stock with the EZ box only

 

[DLBurns]

Have not heard back from Bob or Don in regards to the injectors so I need some more ideas from those of you who tow heavy with 1. 5's and an HX 35/12... In my feeble way of thinking there should be nothing keeping me from pulling at the speed limit unless these 1. 5's are generating alot more heat than what I have read about here on the TDR???

 

[DwayneKelch]

DLBurns,



I have similar setup to yours... HX35/12, 1. 5s and TTPM w/6-speed transmission. I can build 32psi of boost with the TTPM in #1 setting (timing only), and hit 36psi with the box on the #2 setting. Pulling 8,000 pounds, EGTs top out at 1250 degrees on the steepest grade I traversed from Oklahoma to Alaska... never came out of sixth gear.



1200 degree EGTs pulling a 12K 5er up a grade is normal. However, it's odd that you are loosing power on grades only. How does your truck perform when accelerating aggressively on flat ground with 12K 5er? Does it build the same boost? How much smoke are you getting? Seems that you should be building a little more boost. Are your 1. 5s new or did you buy them used? How does the truck idle? Do you have access to an infared thermal gun? Have you tried running the EZ as a boost fooler only to see how the truck performs?



As others stated, many possibilities... torque converter slipping? With the addition of the 1. 5s you're building quite a bit more torque.





Dwayne

 

[DLBurns]

DLBurns,



I have similar setup to yours... HX35/12, 1. 5s and TTPM w/6-speed transmission. I can build 32psi of boost with the TTPM in #1 setting (timing only), and hit 36psi with the box on the #2 setting. Pulling 8,000 pounds, EGTs top out at 1250 degrees on the steepest grade I traversed from Oklahoma to Alaska... never came out of sixth gear.



1200 degree EGTs pulling a 12K 5er up a grade is normal. However, it's odd that you are loosing power on grades only. How does your truck perform when accelerating aggressively on flat ground with 12K 5er? Does it build the same boost? How much smoke are you getting? Seems that you should be building a little more boost. Are your 1. 5s new or did you buy them used? How does the truck idle? Do you have access to an infared thermal gun? Have you tried running the EZ as a boost fooler only to see how the truck performs?



As others stated, many possibilities... torque converter slipping? With the addition of the 1. 5s you're building quite a bit more torque.





Dwayne

Thanks for the reply Dwayne, I agree, 1200° is normal pulling grades but not in 2nd gear at 27MPH! I plugged the wastegate off on my return trip and could just barely get it past 31 PSI. The truck accelerates good on the flat but gets to 1250° pretty darn quick and the boost is the same, I can barely pull a speed bump in OD without the EGT's getting out of control

1. 5's were purchased new and the truck idles smoothly at about 750 RPM.

I do have an IR thermometer, what should I check with that? Have not ran the EZ on boost fooler only, think that it's advancing my timing to much with the 1. 5's and generating all this heat?

TC and VB are Suncoast and have less than 15K on them. No problems slipping thus far at 340 RWHP and 684 lbs torque

It has been suggested to me that DD's may run cooler than the Mach 1's?

At this point I am willing to give anything a try that doesn't cost a small fortune.

 

[DwayneKelch]

DLBurns,



At 27mph on a grade, what max boost number are you seeing... 30+psi? How long can you hold the boost pressure? Can you control the boost/EGT by feathering the accelerator pedal? If so, you're fueling correctly and getting the exhaust gases needed to spool the turbo. Your EGT doesn't seem out of line (not too hot) with what I experience. Too, you're pulling another 4K pounds more than I've ever pulled with my setup. It takes more fuel to move that weight, especially pulling a grade.



The IR thermometer can be used to check exhaust gas temperatures at each cylinder. Check the exhaust gas temp, for each cylinder, just as it enters the port of the exhaust manifold. You're checking for extreme temp differences between the cylinders (I believe 5/6 runs a few degrees higher than the rest of the cylinders). If the injectors are popping late, early, or not at all, this will have a significant impact on exhaust temps. An unbalanced set of injectors can cause one or more cylinders to work harder than the others.



Your horsepower/torque, boost (few psi low), and EGTs all seem to be normal. The only abnormal thing is the the 27mph while pulling a 12K 5er up a grade. I still can't help but think it's transmission related. Is your engine rpm any different for a given speed when pulling or not pulling your 5er?



Check it out and let me know what you find.





Dwayne

 

[JBlock]

ISOPRO put out some pyro guages around the end of 2001 early 2002 that are known to read high. There is a calibration adjustment. I know my temperatures are always high. 1150 is prettry easy to reach with no load, just running RV275 and super tuner. I have a PDR 35 too.



If your is the model with the amp box that likely part of the problem.

 

[DLBurns]

DLBurns,



At 27mph on a grade, what max boost number are you seeing... 30+psi? How long can you hold the boost pressure? Can you control the boost/EGT by feathering the accelerator pedal? If so, you're fueling correctly and getting the exhaust gases needed to spool the turbo. Your EGT doesn't seem out of line (not too hot) with what I experience. Too, you're pulling another 4K pounds more than I've ever pulled with my setup. It takes more fuel to move that weight, especially pulling a grade.



The IR thermometer can be used to check exhaust gas temperatures at each cylinder. Check the exhaust gas temp, for each cylinder, just as it enters the port of the exhaust manifold. You're checking for extreme temp differences between the cylinders (I believe 5/6 runs a few degrees higher than the rest of the cylinders). If the injectors are popping late, early, or not at all, this will have a significant impact on exhaust temps. An unbalanced set of injectors can cause one or more cylinders to work harder than the others.



Your horsepower/torque, boost (few psi low), and EGTs all seem to be normal. The only abnormal thing is the the 27mph while pulling a 12K 5er up a grade. I still can't help but think it's transmission related. Is your engine rpm any different for a given speed when pulling or not pulling your 5er?



Check it out and let me know what you find.





Dwayne

I am able to control boost/egt's by the right foot and the boost at 27 MPH was maxed out at 31 PSI. I drive by the gauges when I'm pulling a grade so I am constantly feathering the throttle.

Have not checked the the RPM's for a variance when pulling and not pulling. I will check that as soon as I can. I have to store my fiver away from my house so I can't just hook it up and go for a test.

I thought maybe that was what the IR thermometer was for, just don't know if I can hang on to the side of the truck at 55 MPH long enough to get the temps

Thanks again Dwayne, I'll keep you posted.

Dave

 

[DLBurns]

ISOPRO put out some pyro guages around the end of 2001 early 2002 that are known to read high. There is a calibration adjustment. I know my temperatures are always high. 1150 is prettry easy to reach with no load, just running RV275 and super tuner. I have a PDR 35 too.



If your is the model with the amp box that likely part of the problem.

Funny thing, we were just discussing this very possibilty the other night at the RamRunners meeting. I bought and installed my gauges in December of 2001

I can get my egt's past 1200° just merging onto the freeway on ramp.

Don't know if I have the amp box or not. I'll have to ask Blair as he did the install.

Man if it turns out to be just a bad pyro I will be in hog heaven!

Thanks for that info

Dave

 

[DwayneKelch]

Dave,



The wrong signal (voltage) amplification box would explain an enhanced reading during situations where you'd expect to see lower EGTs. However, 27mph on a grade with your 12K 5er is a separate issue.



:-laf Had to laugh about the IR thermometer scenario. Although it would be better to get readings under load, it would be very difficult. Do you know anyone who owns a dyno? Take readings with the truck at idle and then rev up the engine to about 2500rpm, hold for a minute or so, then take readings. If EGTs are similar chances are good the injectors are okay. Ideally, it'd be best to bench test the injectors for popping pressure and leak down. Haven't read about anyone experiencing problems with the DonM EDMs so think you're going to be okay. Try using the EZ as a boost fooler only to see how the injectors perform on their own. Your boost should be around 28psi.



If it was fuel related, your boost would be down (I see about 36psi), EGTs down, little to no lift pump (FASS) pressure, and lousy acceleration whether towing or not. Too, if you had an air restriction/intake leak you wouldn't be seeing 30+psi of boost and have lots of black smoke. What kind of power/torque is your transmission setup rated for



You'll get the problem nailed down, hang in there.





Dwayne

 

[gotchili]

how about the EZ

Did ya remember to move the jumper on the EZ, so as to change it from level 3 to level 1, which is recommended when you up the injectors. This should lower you EGT's.

 

[Cliffman]

I thought maybe that was what the IR thermometer was for, just don't know if I can hang on to the side of the truck at 55 MPH long enough to get the temps

Dave, we'll just stuff little BPINE under the hood with a flash light. :-laf

 

[DLBurns]

Dave, we'll just stuff little BPINE under the hood with a flash light. :-laf

ROTFLMAO!! :-laf :-laf

I would pay to see that!!!

Of course he might take a flying leap like he did when he was installing your shocks!!! :-laf

 

[DLBurns]

Did ya remember to move the jumper on the EZ, so as to change it from level 3 to level 1, which is recommended when you up the injectors. This should lower you EGT's.

I have not done that?? When I set it up to use it as a boost fooler only I will change that setting.

Thanks

Dave

 

[DLBurns]

Dave,



The wrong signal (voltage) amplification box would explain an enhanced reading during situations where you'd expect to see lower EGTs. However, 27mph on a grade with your 12K 5er is a separate issue.



:-laf Had to laugh about the IR thermometer scenario. Although it would be better to get readings under load, it would be very difficult. Do you know anyone who owns a dyno? Take readings with the truck at idle and then rev up the engine to about 2500rpm, hold for a minute or so, then take readings. If EGTs are similar chances are good the injectors are okay. Ideally, it'd be best to bench test the injectors for popping pressure and leak down. Haven't read about anyone experiencing problems with the DonM EDMs so think you're going to be okay. Try using the EZ as a boost fooler only to see how the injectors perform on their own. Your boost should be around 28psi.



If it was fuel related, your boost would be down (I see about 36psi), EGTs down, little to no lift pump (FASS) pressure, and lousy acceleration whether towing or not. Too, if you had an air restriction/intake leak you wouldn't be seeing 30+psi of boost and have lots of black smoke. What kind of power/torque is your transmission setup rated for



You'll get the problem nailed down, hang in there.





Dwayne

I agree about the injectors, I have not heard one bad thing about Don's injectors thats whats so darn confusing. When I went this route I had read many things about the great towing combo the 1. 5's and HX35 were. The 1. 6's are supposed to deliver a little more HP and about 50° leass egt's. I'll see when I get them I guess. In the mean time, I will set up the EZ to run on boost fooler only and see what happens.

As for the transmission, I am not sure what power rating it is made to handle It is a single disc Suncoast TC and VB which I have run with my stock injectors, EZ and the HY without any problems. Would the 1. 5's at about 85 additional HP be too much for the transmission??

Can't thank you enough for all your help with this Dwayne, this is why the TDR guys are the best!

Dave

 

[BPINE]

Dave I have a flashlight and a spare guage so lets go testing.

 

[DLBurns]

Dave I have a flashlight and a spare guage so lets go testing.

I am ready when you are old buddy!! I am sure I have some bungee cords that will hold you to the side of the truck

I know you have been busy with the refinery and I didn't want you to feel pressured to help out a diesel dummy!

Just let me know when you have some time.

Dave

 

[DwayneKelch]

BPINE - we all could use a few friends like you... what a pal. Be careful not to get sucked into the air filter when Dave starts to build boost. Remember to wear your fall harness when attempting work like this. You can clip onto the lifting eye on the front of the engine.



DLBurns - it's not really the horsepower that kills the auto trannys, it's the torque. The components, unless beefed up, can't take the torque developed by the mighty Cummins. Your horsepower went up 85, but the torque went up about 160lb/ft. Add the hp/tq from the EZ and you've significantly increased stress to the transmission over stock. I'm no transmission expert, however there are many on this site that could tell you whether the upgrade to your transmission will hold the power, torque, and towing weight (12K pounds) you're throwing at it. Call Suncoast to get their input on your setup.



Hope you get the two problems worked out.





Dwayne