Is the Cummins really so mighty after all?

[lmills]

It is D/C's fault! We're talking about Dodge trucks, not Fords! If we were talking about Fords, then we can blame Ford. But since it's Dodges we're talking about, and it's Dodge that has the problem, then we can blame D/C.

I understand fully, but you obviously didn't. Like I said, it is mostly the dealer, not D/C. I have taken mine in 5-6 times with the twins hanging off the sides, injectors and boxes still attached. I have had no issues to date with warranty claims. As a matter of a fact it goes in tomorrow for a track bar. Believe what you want.

 

[SKneeland]

I understand fully, but you obviously didn't. Like I said, it is mostly the dealer, not D/C. I have taken mine in 5-6 times with the twins hanging off the sides, injectors and boxes still attached. I have had no issues to date with warranty claims. As a matter of a fact it goes in tomorrow for a track bar. Believe what you want.

maybe what we need to do is compile a dealership "blacklist" posted and stickied here on the TDR...



i know of 2 dealships in my area i will never spend another dime at, not to mention the lengths i will go to to persuade EVERYONE i meet to do the same



a little competetive boycotting if you will, might help encourage the "good" dealers to keep up the good work, and the "bad" ones to pull their heads from their ... .

 

[ohnoitsyu]

I understand fully, but you obviously didn't. Like I said, it is mostly the dealer, not D/C. I have taken mine in 5-6 times with the twins hanging off the sides, injectors and boxes still attached. I have had no issues to date with warranty claims. As a matter of a fact it goes in tomorrow for a track bar. Believe what you want.

I now understand what you're explaining to a point. Yes, some dealers will look the other way, but when stuff like Jonathan's comes up, the dealer has to be straight up with STAR with what they know. Otherwise, D/C may charge back what they paid out if they find out the dealer wasn't being honest.

 

[SHobbs]

Guess I am a lucky one. I have 172k on the odometer, still on the factory VP44, one LP, MAP ( boost pressure sensor ) and one water pump. Oil, filter and fuel filter are changed every 6k, no leaks or squeaks in the cab and the suspension is holding up well. I had to deal with DC on the LP and it was a hassle, since then I have not gone back.

 

[WoodT]

i didnt read the whole thread but my buddy has an 04. 5 that has 250k miles on it. Hes been pulling way outside his limits (darn near 45k combined). He destroyed his turbo and manifold due to excessive heat and dropped 1 injector so he replaced them all. Hes now runnin 500rwhp everyday towing heavy and pullin strong.

 

[CCahill]

Gary... . interesting comments... and most I totally agree with... My first car (at 14) was a Ford... after that I was pretty much a GM man... for years the only truck I would buy was a GM... although Ford , I think has built a "Heavier Duty" truck. . what ever that means... in any case, when I made the decision to buy a diesel truck, I felt I didn't have a lot of choices... at the time the DuraMax was just coming on line, and knowing GM's diesel history, is was not a choice at all... also with the Fords, they keep changing the engines in those trucks, and can't seem to get it right... That left me with what was my first choice anyway... the Cummins... the engine is legendary... and likely always will be. . it just happened to be in a Dodge body... all in all, I have been very pleased with the truck, but do also have issues with the longevity of the drivetrain... I also, again have had the same problems most others have had, lift pump, injection pumps, yata, yata... I love this truck, don't get me wrong, . . however with the new emission regs, and the reports of bad mileage, and other things about the Gen 3 trucks... the GM camp is starting to look a little friendlier these days... .

sorry for the winded rambling...

Colin

 

[machinemover]

I'm on my 4th Dodge Truck '97 traded 170,000 miles,2000 traded 300,000 miles,03 traded 235,000 ,and now an 06. I have had more then my share of Dodge problems and it is very frustrating. I've become acclimated to the truth that "there is NO dodge WARRANTEE. I don't buy the truck with expectations of warrantee issue any longer, I drive it as if I will have to pay for it when it brakes. After all my '06 brokedown on the Florida Turnpike last month with a battery issue, and guess what, DODGE REFUSED TO TOW OFF THE FLORIDA TURNPIKE> My issue don't buy a Dodge if you are expecting a warrantee you will be sadly disapponted. . . . THE PLAIN TRUTH!!!!!!!

 

[MCummings]

Where and when was this proven?



-Ryan

John,



Please come back and explain this to us.





Merrick

 

[Augie]

I have owned the following diesels:

1983 Isuzu I-Mark 326,000 miles (donated to charity)

1989 D-250 (4X2 5spd)

1999 Ram 3500 (5spd DRW, V/A Box)

2001 Ram 2500 (BOMBED! had a RASP, lift pump was the weak link)

2003 Ram 3500 (DRW 6spd)

2003 F-250 6. 0 (pos)

2006 Mega Cab 3500 4x2 (traded for below)

2006 Mega Cab 3500 4x4 (currently)



Spent many hours on FTE 6. 0, Diesel Stop, The Diesel Place forums. I have not owned a D-Max. Each platform and version has its weak link, and owners who will curse that brand to no end. I strongly feel overall the Cummins I-6 platform has been the most durable across the board. I have read numerous posts of D-Max and Ford owners wishing a Cummins was turning their shafts; but never have I read of a Dodge owner wishing a P/S or D-Max V-8 was under their hood. No BS

 

[Lektrikman]

PGreenleaf, I just bought a new 05 CTD and I'm getting concerned about all the bad press the 3rd gen is getting. Tell me, can you see the elbow you mention without taking the fuel tank down? I'm wondering if I can check mine with an inspection morror to see if I have the same open elbow... ... ... . Lektrikman

 

[john3976]

John,



Please come back and explain this to us.





Merrick

It was found that 2% of Banks 24 Valve customers have experienced injector pump trouble while the national rate for Cummins and Dodge is reported to be 3%. There are a substantial number of Banks equipped 24 Valve trucks now in service around the country. If Banks product was causing failures then Banks failure rate would be greater than Cummins is experiencing overall. The data indicates that Norm’s Stinger Plus System was not the cause of his failures.



http://thepowershop.com/index.php?pr=Wingprayer2

 

[rbattelle]

It was found that 2% of Banks 24 Valve customers have experienced injector pump trouble while the national rate for Cummins and Dodge is reported to be 3%. There are a substantial number of Banks equipped 24 Valve trucks now in service around the country. If Banks product was causing failures then Banks failure rate would be greater than Cummins is experiencing overall. The data indicates that Norm’s Stinger Plus System was not the cause of his failures.



http://thepowershop.com/index.php?pr=Wingprayer2

I find it hard to simply take statistics like that without any kind of references as to how the data was collected, sample size, or sources. In my opinion, that website is a long way from "proving" anything.



I'm not completely discounting it (the article was well written, at least), but I'll take it with a very large grain of salt. Any statistics coming from an aftermarket company whose interests lie in selling product (like Banks or The Power Shop) are highly suspect.



-Ryan

 

[machinemover]

Augie,

Well put that's why I put up with the DC no Warrantee factor. Kind of like a president not taking responsibility!

 

[john3976]

I find it hard to simply take statistics like that without any kind of references as to how the data was collected, sample size, or sources. In my opinion, that website is a long way from "proving" anything.



I'm not completely discounting it (the article was well written, at least), but I'll take it with a very large grain of salt. Any statistics coming from an aftermarket company whose interests lie in selling product (like Banks or The Power Shop) are highly suspect.



-Ryan

Do you really think Dodge is going to come out and tell you the percentage of failures they are having?



The figures from the article are for Banks equipped trucks which had an average failure rate of 2%, the reported national failure rate for Dodge and Cummins for the same lift pump problems were 3%, I don't know what else you require, but those numbers are pretty strong indicators that the problems were not being caused from aftermarket parts when the national failure rate for Dodge and Cummins was at 3%.



Face it the fuel systems on these trucks is suspect from the get go, I bet the failure rates for injectors are the same be it stock or modded, that indicates that the problems are not being caused by aftermarket parts but it does indicate that Dodge and Cummins has a problem with their injectors.



Why is it we don't read about the same percentage of injector failures from replacement aftermarket injectors?



At some point even you have to start to see the facts in the numbers, you can't continue to just blow them off just because DC has not meet with you and opened their books and oh how I would love for DC to open their books, I bet it would prove beyond any doubt that all of these failures are not being caused by the aftermarket parts.

 

[JARichard]

I don't care about the no warranty issue so much as the value of the truck versus Ford or chevy!



I can't believe how little I am being offered on trade and my truck is well kept up!

Just 3 years old and a 131,000 miles. Basically, the truck is worth $6k less than a caomparable Ford with 180,000 miles same dealership!

 

[john3976]

I find it hard to simply take statistics like that without any kind of references as to how the data was collected, sample size, or sources. In my opinion, that website is a long way from "proving" anything.



I'm not completely discounting it (the article was well written, at least), but I'll take it with a very large grain of salt. Any statistics coming from an aftermarket company whose interests lie in selling product (like Banks or The Power Shop) are highly suspect.



-Ryan

Here is a link to another site, please read what this business says needs to be replaced with a vp-44 pump, this pretty much backs up everything stated in the first article: http://www.mwfi.com/VP44.htm

 

[machinemover]

I'd shop that one out, sounds fishy to me...

 

[john3976]

I find it hard to simply take statistics like that without any kind of references as to how the data was collected, sample size, or sources. In my opinion, that website is a long way from "proving" anything.



I'm not completely discounting it (the article was well written, at least), but I'll take it with a very large grain of salt. Any statistics coming from an aftermarket company whose interests lie in selling product (like Banks or The Power Shop) are highly suspect.



-Ryan

Here is Dodge tech seeking some answers to what he has been seeing and replacing, seems injectors number 3 and 4 are the most common to fail.



http://www.doeuv.com/Cummins-Injectors-1439352.html

 

[Turbo Tim 1]

The figures from the article are for Banks equipped trucks which had an average failure rate of 2%, the reported national failure rate for Dodge and Cummins for the same lift pump problems were 3%

This reminds me of an old saying though, "Liars figure and Figures lie!" You can make anything look like anything, those numbers look like Banks put them together



Could it be that the guys willing to spend thousands of dollar for a few more horsepower take better care of their vehicles and kept an eye on fuel pressures etc. whereas the general public knows nothing of these problems and therefore ends up with failures because of ignorance. I really don't want to get in on your fight but I don't see how anyone would gather these numbers even partially accurate.

 

[john3976]

This reminds me of an old saying though, "Liars figure and Figures lie!" You can make anything look like anything, those numbers look like Banks put them together



Could it be that the guys willing to spend thousands of dollar for a few more horsepower take better care of their vehicles and kept an eye on fuel pressures etc. whereas the general public knows nothing of these problems and therefore ends up with failures because of ignorance. I really don't want to get in on your fight but I don't see how anyone would gather these numbers even partially accurate.

Simple, both Cummins and DC are public traded company's and as such are required to provide access or reports to their costs of doing business, so yes it is possible to get numbers from them through reports.



Also automotive trade magazines that deal with the automotive industry do a pretty good job of tracking warranty repair costs of the manufactures.



While DC, Ford, GM, Toyota, Nissan, Honda and the rest do not want to admit to the amount of warranty repair and the types of warranty repairs they do, you can find the figures on the internet.



Ford, GM and DC all spend over 2 billion dollars a year on warranty repairs, that comes out to guess what, about 3 to 5% of their sales. Go figure.