Is the Cummins really so mighty after all?

[RKerner]

It doesn't take a lot of effort to search out the Big 3's warranty rates.



Here's GM and Ford for last year:



4 billion for Ford, 4. 7 billion for GM, holy cow



DCX reports in euros, so the best guess is here:



DCX 2004 warranty estimate



In mfg, the goal is usually 1% failure rate that is warrantable. 1. 5% is barely tolerable to CEO and Board of Director types. Over that and there are 'programs' and new corporate directives to reduce the bleeding. To think that DC has a better warranty rate than others is not realistic. Cummins is at 2. 4% so they have their issues also.



Anyway, the poll should be for MY04. 5, MY05, and MY06 as it appears that very few 03's had injector issues. The 04. 5 is a first gen emission engine and has significant infant mortality on injectors. Most have not caused engine failure or warranty dismissal. Divide the total population of each model year represented by the members here into the injector failures and you will create statistically significant failure rates.



The internet is interesting soap box that seems to tolerate the creation of mountains out of molehills.



I had injectors 1, 3, and 5 replaced but Star had the tech put #1 in #4 so does that mean I had numbers 3,4 and 5 replaced or ... . ???? My thought is that the position of the injector has little to do with its failure rate.

 

[MCummings]

The only Cummins problems I've had are a shutdown selenoid and a starter for preventive maintenance.

That's a Bosch part BTW. The Only Cummins problems I have truly heard of are cracked manifolds, warped heads, oil piston cooler nozzle failures, and KDP.



Merrick

 

[JHardwick]

This poll is no good ... ... ... ... ... how about NO injector failures? 178,000 miles and still going!

 

[Mhannink]

i personaly think that the problems we are seeing w/ the fuel system is coming from the poor fuel which is why we don't see any europen diesels here yet our fuel is terrible and w/ the tighter and tighter tolerances in the fuel system but yet running the same micron filter we alwasy used is allowing once harmless particles to enter the system and ruin the injectors. i predict that we will see a decline in these problems once the new fuel comes in. just my . 02

 

[JPereira]

This poll is no good ... ... ... ... ... how about NO injector failures? 178,000 miles and still going!

I agree this needs a no failure... 49,000 on my 4. 5 and not a single trip to the dealer. My drivers door seal is showing wear but that does not affect the Mighty Cummins. I enjoy my truck...



Jeff

 

[Ol'TrailDog]

Jeff, the door seal should be covered by a TSB, i. e. replaced at no cost. I had the 04 door seals replaced under the TSB.

 

[JPereira]

Jeff, the door seal should be covered by a TSB, i. e. replaced at no cost. I had the 04 door seals replaced under the TSB.

I do not think the TSB would apply to me as I am over the 36k warranty for that component. If that is not the case please let me know how I can have this covered. 49k on the odometer at the moment.



Thanks

 

[Ol'TrailDog]

Unless I'm mistaken the TSB are not dependent on the vehicle being under warranty.



see http://dodgeram.info/tsb/00Faq.html



However, I don't see the TSB for the door seal premature wear ??? It exists because I had it done on my 04.

 

[Scrappy]

unless it is safety related if you are out of warranty, it is on your dime.

 

[jnelson]

I have spent much less on this truck than my '01. Only engine related problems were 2 injectors replaced under waranty, 1 ilift pump (which later turned to a FASS), and 1 engine belt.

 

[MRosinski]

i personaly think that the problems we are seeing w/ the fuel system is coming from the poor fuel which is why we don't see any europen diesels here yet our fuel is terrible and w/ the tighter and tighter tolerances in the fuel system but yet running the same micron filter we alwasy used is allowing once harmless particles to enter the system and ruin the injectors. i predict that we will see a decline in these problems once the new fuel comes in. just my . 02

I also agree. They tightened the tolerances in the fuel system, but did not increase the fuel quality or filtration. Once the ulsd comes out, I think it will solve many injector problems. 500ppm vs. 15ppm is a universe of difference in high pressure systems when the tolerances are typacilly . 0001", whether it be fuel or hydraulic.

 

[RustyJC]

To that end, it would be interesting to see failure statistics on Bosch VP44 systems as used on European diesels where 50 PPM sulfur diesel fuel has been available for years.



Rusty

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

I suspect that ACTUAL - not theoretical - quality of the diesel fuels we will get at the pump is the cricial item. All the early-on stated goals suggested and promised to us don't mean diddly-squat unless we GET what we are promised!



And comparisons between what Europeans get at the pump vs our ULSD are worthless apples/oranges, unless we can also see how they commonly compare in analysis test labs in terms of purity and overall quality on a consistent, across our nation average.



High standards and quality don't end at the refinery, if we are to get what we will be paying for...

 

[RustyJC]

And comparisons between what Europeans get at the pump vs our ULSD are worthless apples/oranges, unless we can also see how they commonly compare in analysis test labs in terms of purity and overall quality on a consistent, across our nation average.

Gary,



I don't believe a MTBF comparison between European and US VP44-based systems is meaningless. If the data vary significantly, then it indicates that something is fundamentally different between the Euro and US applications - and that might well be fuel quality.



Rusty

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Rusty, I should have been more specific - when I said comparisons between our fuel and that of the Europeans, I was referring to the several statements in this thread where the casual inference was that our low suplhur diesel should be just peachy, since it has been doing so well in Europe - they may have FAR better regulations and active standards in place than we do, or will have - so THAT comparison might not be of much value...

 

[rbattelle]

Which trade pub are you referencing? I'd like to check it out.



-Ryan

John - still wondering which trade publication you're referring to... . I still want to check it out, because that'd be some good info.



-Ryan

 

[BradyWilliams]

I just wanted to point out that the problem with having to have more sophisticated fuel systems is not a Manufacturers issue. It is driven by GOVERMENT/EPA and many special interest groups. As fuel pressures go up to control emmisions, we all pay the bill either when we buy a new vehicle or when the failures start as a result of load values that keep increasing or extra components that are fitted to injection pumps. The P7100 pump was very bullet proof and now we have gone through VP44 and now common rail. Thanks

 

[rbattelle]

Well, John, the poll is closed now. Can you interpret the results for us?



And what about those trade publications that track warranty repairs. To which publications are you referring?



-Ryan

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Well, John, the poll is closed now. Can you interpret the results for us?



And what about those trade publications that track warranty repairs. To which publications are you referring?



-Ryan

To be absolutely fair, John is probably a lot like most of the rest of us - reads stuff at various places, home, doctor's office. etc. , but doesn't necessarily keep EVERYTHING he reads cataloged and filed away in his PC in order to "prove" later references he makes to what he has read...



I occasionally make such references myself - well intended and accurate to the best of my ability - but "Proof" for the critics and various other disbelievers?