K&N doesn't stop dirt!!!

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Had a K&N for the last 23K miles, no prefilter. Had the truck in for service at cummins. The tech pointed out a nice black slimey film on the turbo inlet and highly recommended against continued used of the K&N, or any oil filter. This filter was not over oiled, if anything I thought I under oiled it. (I washed it new, because it was over oiled out of the box).

This greasy slime gets pushed through the intercooler and into the engine, eventually causeing premature engine wear. So, if your not planning to put 200k on yours, probably not a problem. If you buying a used one, look for this grease in the intake. (As per the cummins tech).

Back to paper for now. I miss the whine though.


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99' Quad Cab, 4x4, Auto, 3. 55, All options except fog lights and leather, Glasstite topper, Chrome Nerf Bars, VA CPC, Boost Mod & elbow, DiPricol EGT & Boost Gauges Pillar Mount, K&N Air Filter**, Turbo Silencer Ring Removed, Infinity sound w/pillar tweeters, 300w speaker system under rear seat, Metalic Red. Hum, transmission mods and injectors next? ** Removed K&N Replaced w/ paper filter - problems w/ K&N

 

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FYI - 27. 7"w. c. = 1psi

w. c. stand for water column (better thought of as a column of water). It refers to the amount of pressure existing at the bottom of that column of water. A column of water 27. 7" high will exert a pressure of 1psi at the bottom of that column (this is in addition to the atmospheric pressure). When talking about it in regards to a filter, it is the amount of pressure lost across the filter due to restriction.

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1999 2500 QC 4X4 LB Auto 4. 10LS, Driftwood, CD player with Steering Wheel Controls, Power Driver's Seat, 275HP Injectors, PowerEdge, Bill K's Valve Body, ISSPRO Boost and EGT, K&N Air Filter, Brushguard, Spray-in Liner, 285/75R16 BFG AT KO's, Nerf Bars, Black Diamond Plate Deep Well Tool Box, Mopar flat antispray guards (front and back)
Soon to have: Bill K's TC when available
2000 Yamaha Big Bear 400 4X4
NRA Member

 

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Stock is best. K&N is ok for a dirtbike, but not our expensive diesels.

 

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The other day I drove through a strong sand/dust storm, for about 20 miles, so bad I had to slow down to 40-50mph due to poor visibility. My Patriot Blue truck looked like Driftwood afterwards. Engine bay looked terrible. Pulled the intake hose, zero trace of dust buildup whatsoever.

Illflem sent me an interesting email, about air analysis taken in Eastern Washington revealing we have some of the finest dust in the world (as in teeny tiny particles). There is an abundance of dust under 1 micron, unstopable by filters #ad

 

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<font color=teal>Maybe the Washington dust is really small. If it is smaller than 1 micron even paper filter won't stop it well. Have you ever done a oil analysis? If so what was your Silicon?</font>

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Dee'sel
97 2500 Club 4X4 3. 54, Forrest Green/Driftwood, LSD 5 speed, K&N Air filter RE0880 & Psychotty, TST #11 all the way forward, #12 for winter, AFC spring kit, Geno's Exhaust Blanket, TST EGT gauge & TST 0-60 boost gauge in A Pillar, Hypo clutch ass. , Cat-be-gone, 4" Dynomax Bullet muffler, Crome 4" turn down, AmsOil ser 2000 75W-90 in Trans, Geno's trans filter kit, AmsOil ATF In Transfer case, AmsOil 15W-40 Oil W/ Bypass system, AmsOil Ser 2000 75W-90 in front & Rear ends, Lund Winter front, Leer Cab Level Shell Driftwood , 235/85R16 Goodyears, Dyno'd 342 HP *NRA/USPSA member and proud of it*

[This message has been edited by drawson (edited 08-04-2000). ]

 

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Never thought about it till I read these posts about size of dust particles. Could that be the reason some are seeing dust on the turbo vanes and others don't? Guys who live in fine dust areas may need to figure out a way to hook up a big rig style air filter. My big truck has prefilters and filters for both the air and fuel.

[This message has been edited by Koa Man (edited 08-04-2000). ]

 

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I've had some feedback from DC on the K&N "square" air filter - apparently the problem has been with the sealing. K&N has been including a tube of synth grease with their filters for a while now, and though they don't say anything about it, it's obviously for sealing the rubber gasket. I drive 6 miles each way on a gravel/dust road at least once each day, and have never seen any dirt in the clean side, but I have seen dust creeping up the corners of the airbox before I caught on to the purpose of the lube. Now that has stopped too, and with the additional noise provided by removing the silencing ring, my truck is starting to sound really good! #ad
Now, for that 4" exhaust! #ad


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1999 Sport 2500 QC LB, 4x4, SLT, 5 Spd, 3. 54, Camper Package, Trailer Package, Linex liner, SmittyBilt nurfs, K&N filters, 245/70R19. 5 Toyo M680Z, 19. 5" rims, SilBlade wipers, NO silencer ring

 

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Just my thoughts but,
How much air flow does your turbo require for your bomb level? I believe even the stock filter will supply adequate flow but would like to see some figures. If it does, the problem seems to be one of quality of air not quanity.
For me, there are enough vendors out there that will tell you anything to get you to but their product. We you have one that tells you not to, LISTEN TO THEM!
For my $35,000 + Cummins, No K&N for me. As for the sound, I will find another way to get it. I don't want to hear the sound of my Cummins destructing. Also, there is an air box out there I was going to purchase but will not until the vendor endorses the filter supplied with it. This is not intented to offend anyone, just my thoughts.

 

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TV, I've posted this information before, but for those who didn't read the post, here it is: I dyno tested a smewhat dirty Mopar filter vs. new Fleetguard vs. no filter with the box propped open on a Ram with 390 hp as measured on the Dynojet 248C. While this dyno won't measure the true torque, it does show turbo spoolup and attendant hp increase very well, and does a good, repeatable job on peak hp. All three setups gave identical curves! So, I don't feel the restriction of the stock filter is too bad, at least up to the 510 hp level I have tested so far. I have pulled out the colar between the fender and the air box, because it is restrictive (or the fender inlet is) and/or tends to collapse under high suction. I don't like warm underhood air, but it is better than no air! Scott1 has a good idea with his cowl induction Psychotty system, but I want to find a good quality paper filter for it before I try something of this type in my dusty desert location.

 

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Joseph, I would be interested in this set up you are talking about. Could you send me some info? Thanks.

 

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The AF942M is about $37. KW in Denver has them,but the last time I got it at IHC. They had several - it must be a big mover in their equipment. I change it yearly even though it looks clean yet. I took the magnahelic off after the initial testing. I saw a round collar with flange in a Torit dust collector catalog that may be just right for this use. I need to call them and check it out to be sure. I'll post the pt. # if it's right. That would save having to make one, like I did.

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97 3/4Ton, 2WD, 5SP, #11 Plate, 14 Housing, AF942M Air filter, Gutted Cat, 4"From Turbo, Shortened Frame, Custom Bed, HEY FORDBOY POWERSTROKE THIS!

 

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Joe, I have e-mailed Fram, Fleetgard and Amsoil. No reply from Fleetgard or Fram.
Amsoil reps keep telling me that Amsoil will custom build a filter. That is not what Amsoil says.

The reply was short and sweet from Amsoil and they even referred to the K&N filter with the wrong part number.

I asked a few Amsoil folks about this and got no reply.

Where else can I go to get a paper element filter made for the Psychotty Air?

EH

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My Site

 

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Anyone want my K&N? You pay postage it's yours. Used 22K miles.

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99' Quad Cab, 4x4, Auto, 3. 55, All options except fog lights and leather, Glasstite topper, Chrome Nerf Bars, VA CPC, Boost Mod & elbow, DiPricol EGT & Boost Gauges Pillar Mount, K&N Air Filter**, Turbo Silencer Ring Removed, Infinity sound w/pillar tweeters, 300w speaker system under rear seat, Metalic Red. Hum, transmission mods and injectors next? ** Removed K&N Replaced w/ paper filter - problems w/ K&N

 

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Joe,the rubber cone is a very good point!I got the 16" with stock paper and 11" with k&n in the stock box w/cone. I didn't check delts P's of the components. After switching to the AF942M,I discovered with the magnahelic that the under hood pressure is very high. I too decided that high pressure under the hood would be better than too little. After checking air requirement charts in Donaldson and Fleetguard catalogs, it looked to me that a 5. 9L,4 stroke TD, running about 2900 rpm takes nearly 600 cfm. I don't remember the ratings on the AF942M, but it is WAY more than adequate. I've seen from many years of HVAC service in a CGMP environment and testing with a laser particle counter, that the extra filter media is very beneficial,even if the maximum velocity for the particular filter is not being approached - larger IS better. Fewer particles will pass through the media if the velocity is lowered. The validation of a larger filter is a "no brainer",at least to me! Hey,what the heck,it's not expensive,it's much larger and paper is proven. It's what's used in Hepa's (99. 99% @ . 03 mic. and Ultra Hepa's (99. 999% @ . 02 mic. ). Craig

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97 3/4Ton, 2WD, 5SP, #11 Plate, 14 Housing, AF942M Air filter, Gutted Cat, 4"From Turbo, Shortened Frame, Custom Bed, HEY FORDBOY POWERSTROKE THIS!

 

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Donaldson? Baldwin (do they make air filters?) Scott, I guess the best way would be to find out the original application the K&N was made for, and seek OEM and replacement filters for that application.

My main goal right now is to add more fuel to Sickly. Poor old thing is fuel deprived #ad
When he starts gasping, then I'll need more air too! #ad

 

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Just purchased K&N filter for the stock air box 2 weeks ago. The filter came with a small tube of grease and very specific installation instuctions regarding the application of the grease to ensure a postive seal. I did consider the filter to be over oiled, so it was washed and lightly re-oiled before installation.

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97 2500 SLT 4X4,3. 54 gears,PAC brake,Cat sitting on shelf,Centerforce Dual Friction Clutch,K&N Filter

 

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Anybody consider putting a diesel tractor air filter in?There's plenty of room with the stock air box removed and they can easily be plumbed in to draw air from Scott's firewall location. The paper filters on my John Deere and Massey-Fergison tractors can be cleaned six times before replacing. When the clean filter light comes on at least a half gallon of dust comes off during cleaning,just goes to show how dirty a filter can get before it starts restricting flow. Clean with compressed air or soap and water. The best thing about the tractor filters is that they have a seperate inner safety filter(non-cleanable)for insurance and further filtering. My tractor filters run $34 for an outer and $18 for inner,not sure on the outer steel canister but for sure under $100,all are made by Donaldson. Outer filter is about 1/3 bigger than a re0880 K&N. The canister has an outlet for a filter minder,warning light sender or even a vaccum gauge. If anyone feels like tring this out E-mail me and I can get part numbers and prices.

 

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It's hard to add to this informative thread but I'll through in my views and/or questions.
I get over 30# of boost when I accelerate. I seem to have good boost at all rpm levels. If I have all the boost I need, why do I need a different than stock filter for the engines needs? My egt's are fine. The indicator has always showed some movement when the filter is dirty. It seems to me filters are more critical on carburated engines, but our diesels? I'm not so sure. It seems some of Joes experiments prove this percieved problem is over rated.
OK, if you don't want to buy new filters all the time or require more noise, the K&N is cool. If you have high egts or require more noise, Scotty has the answer. If you are mildly enhanced and like quiet, I think the stock filter is the way to go.
I feel real safe with the stocker... ... .


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'99 Quad long bed, 4x4, 5 speed, 3. 55 limslip, DD stage IIs/boost module and elbow, US Gear D-brake, Mag-Hytec, 4" exhaust, gauges, stock filter, air bags and a bunch of other stuff. Pull a 30' Wildwood
fifth wheel.

 

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Had to verify before I posted this, but . . .

The black on the turbine blades is NOT caused by the K&N only. I have seen the same stuff on a mildly modified truck with the stock box and stock paper air filter. I have no more on my blades with the K&N than the truck I am referring to. I thought I remebered seeing this on my turbine blades prior to changing to the K&N, but wanted to verify my memory (my wife thinks that's always a good idea for me #ad
).

And as far as the filter minder, it is a VERY SIMPLE vacuum gauge. Now, would we put a boost or EGT gauge in our truck that looked as cheap as this thing??? So why even worry about it and not just consider it a plug for the hole DC put in the airbox?!?! It's a piece of junk, simply put - not accurate at all. For you guys that see it pull down with a clean filter, try this: take the filter out and run it WOT down the road just once. I can tell you that mine will still pull the filter minder down. This tells me that the filter is not restricting, but something probably is - the air horn between the box and the fender is my guess. I think I'm going to try Joe's idea of just removing it and see what happens to boost and EGT's.

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1999 2500 QC 4X4 LB Auto 4. 10LS, Driftwood, CD player with Steering Wheel Controls, Power Driver's Seat, 275HP Injectors, PowerEdge, Bill K's Valve Body, ISSPRO Boost and EGT, K&N Air Filter, Brushguard, Spray-in Liner, 285/75R16 BFG AT KO's, Nerf Bars, Black Diamond Plate Deep Well Tool Box, Mopar flat antispray guards (front and back)
Soon to have: Bill K's TC when available
2000 Yamaha Big Bear 400 4X4
NRA Member

[This message has been edited by TXRam (edited 08-06-2000). ]

 

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I can verify that I do have a slight oily ring on the housing around the blades. Don't really see any on the blades though (maybe I didn't look hard enough). My intake has always been stock. Still don't trust the K&N though. I can't see spending the money for something that could lessen reliability. Especially when it doesn't add that much enhancement.

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2k, 15k miles, QC, 4x, 6sp, 3. 54,285/75r16 bfg/at, VA, DD1's, PS Boost module, DD Elbow, stock air cleaner (reliable), silencer ring "in" (runs better), popup cmpr, 9000 lbs. 15-16. 5 mpg's. Say no mas.

[This message has been edited by Shortshift (edited 08-06-2000). ]