Kdp Question

[nwcatman]

why does TST not list a KDP kit for any trucks prior to '94? not as much as a problem then or not enough demand? THANKS

 

[blacksheepdiesel]

nwcatman,



Don't know why TST doesn't list it.



Actually the 1st gens have as much a problem with the kdp as with the inner timing case bolts. The front cover should be pulled and the kdp tabbed and the bolts removed, cleaned, and loctited to the proper torque. Do a search for "timing cover bolts", "kdp" or something close to that in the 1st gen forum only.



Trent

 

[LV-CTD]

On the first gen Cummins engines in our trucks there is a reinforcement ridge between the dowell pin and the bolt that the tab would be bolted under that the 2nd and 3rd gen engines don't have. It could still be tabbed, but the tab would have to be much longer and bent in a dogleg fashion to rise over the ridge to get to the dowell pin. I would have preferred to have the tab when I had Joe Donnelly fix mine, but the jig fix, which places a bolt thru the timing case and over the dowell pin is easiest. Mine was nearly half way out when Joe did it and I only have 48k actual miles on it. While you're in there definitely remove, clean, locktite and retorque your timing case bolts since on the 1st gen engines they can loosen and fall out with nearly the same frequency and damage potential as the dowell pin. You will not be able to remove one of the bolts, just retorque it, since it's in an awkward place under one of the gears. Several of my bolts were a little loose but not too bad.



Tom

 

[quikshft]

I called and asked TST if their kit for '94 and on models would work for my '92. They said yes so I ordered it. The tab the kit supplied was useable, but I did 'dogleg' it to make it work.

 

[nwcatman]

Originally posted by quikshft

I called and asked TST if their kit for '94 and on models would work for my '92. They said yes so I ordered it. The tab the kit supplied was useable, but I did 'dogleg' it to make it work.

thanks! how hard was it to get to the timing cover? my son is having visions of hours and hours of downtime and needed skills he may not have, although he is a pretty good wrench on gas

engines. is it a job the average backyard mechanic can do?

 

[quikshft]

I'm a pretty average mechanic and I did it over the course of about 3 evenings after work. If you get the TST kit they have decent instructions included. Digest those for sure.

The most difficult part was getting the 'Fan Nut' loose. If I remember right it is left hand thread, difficult to get to and there is no easy way to hold the waterpump still while you apply wrench pressure to it. I can't really recall what was finally successful for me... I think it was persistance.

 

[nwcatman]

Originally posted by quikshft

I'm a pretty average mechanic and I did it over the course of about 3 evenings after work. If you get the TST kit they have decent instructions included. Digest those for sure.

The most difficult part was getting the 'Fan Nut' loose. If I remember right it is left hand thread, difficult to get to and there is no easy way to hold the waterpump still while you apply wrench pressure to it. I can't really recall what was finally successful for me... I think it was persistance.

yea, persistance is always the great equalizer. thanks again.

 

[Mel Fuelling]

If you look at this procedure and it makes you uneasy or uncomfortable, find a coach or someone else to do it. A good wrench on gas engines should have no problem if he has a Dodge Shop Manual or equivilent.



It took me 4 1/2 hours to do mine, but I had never been inside of a 5. 9 CTD before. I could probably do the next one in 2 hours.



Personally, I prefer to tap the dowel pin back in, raise a burr in the bore of hole with a gouge punch (or a prick punch could be used) in three locations surrounding the dowel pin, clean the bore

with brake Kleen and air, and loctite the pin in with blue loctite for good measure. This is not a tdr approved solution, but one I prefer.



None of my bolts under the front cover had loosened up more than 1/8th of a turn, so I just retorqued them. If you have a good place to work, its probably safer to loctite them too.



Buy a front crankshaft seal and plastic installation sleeve from Cummins. To install the seal in the front cover before replacing the front cover on the engine, support the bore of the seal in the front cover with a large socket or piece of pipe just slightly larger than the front seal O. D. when you want to drive the seal into the front cover. It will bounce a lot if you don't. I didn't have the nerve to put the front cover back on the motor, then try to drive the seal in as the instructions read.



If you don't have the right size wrench and fan pulley holder, you can fabricate them easily with 1/4" steel sheet, a cutting torch, and a 4 1/2" grinder. If you are in a hurry, use a 2# hammer, a round rocker prybar or large chiesel to break the fan nut loose and tighten it back up when done. Pull the fan and shroud out.

Find a large flat piece of cardboard to set up against the radiator

to protect it in case you slip or drop a tool.



It takes longer to torque all the bolts down that you can get to than it does to fix the dowel pin.



Mel

 

[JLEONARD]

Personally, I prefer to tap the dowel pin back in, raise a burr in the bore of hole with a gouge punch (or a prick punch could be used) in three locations surrounding the dowel pin,

FWIW, if I were to take my front cover off, this is the method I would use. I would "stake" it in place.



Mine is fixed via the jig method.



Jay

 

[nwcatman]

Originally posted by JLEONARD

FWIW, if I were to take my front cover off, this is the method I would use. I would "stake" it in place.



Mine is fixed via the jig method.



Jay

what does the jig method do versus the stake method?

 

[nwcatman]

thanks mel, i am gonna let him read ur post a few times.

 

[JLEONARD]

The jig method is where you use a "KDP drill jig". You drill and tap a hole in the side of the case, and insert /loctite a set screw that blocks the pin from comming out.

It is easier and faster than removing the case. Opening the case to tab or stake the pin however allows the tightening of the bolts which also have been known to get loose.



A note about the wrench for the fan nut.....

If you borrow from a mechaninc or buy from a parts store... be sure to ask for a "fan nut wrench". That is how those guys know the tool.

I asked my son for the correct size combo wrench and we couldn't find one. He asked what it was going to be used for... when I told him he said... "oh, why didn't you say you needed a fan nut wrench. (opens drawer in tool box) Here find the one you need".



Go figure.

Jay