LEO/accident investigator help. MPH...

[MCummings]

Had a friend that got run into today.



Vehicles involved,



2004 Jeep Liberty

'99 Dodge Dakota



The Dakota was turning around (pulled about 3' into a driveway, then backed up onto the road), the jeep liberty was traveling down a curved road with a major downhill leveling off to a minor downgrade. I'll have pics up tomorow.



The problem lies with the fact that my friend was cited for "failure to yield right of way leaving a driveway", when, the fact being, when he left the driveway, there was not a vehicle in sight.



The two girls driving the Jeep Liberty are claiming that my friend backed out of the driveway after he saw them coming down the road, so that they would hit him.



The skid marks that the girls left are over 92' long, actually, the are 92. 7' long . The speed limit is 25MPH, with a 20MPH "speed hump" just 15' in front of where the collision took place.



I want to know about how fast these girls were traveling in a residential area. I would love to turn the tables on the two scantily clad flirty girls that the cop fell in love with, and have them get a reckless driving, or some type of endangerment.



I'll get some pics up tomorow afternoon.



The pavement here is old, but does not have any debris on top of it that would hurt traction (loose rocks, top soil, pebbles, etc) the weather was clear and about 70* with a light wind and clear blue skys.



The girls were traveling down a minor grade when the skid marks begin, but I cannot say that is when she hit here brakes, but I think she just jumped on the brakes 100% at that time.



I got to watch the entire deal unfold, from hearing the Jeep accelerate, and hearing the high speed it was traveling at, to seeing it appear around the corner, and locking up the brakes, to the collision.



The impact was hard enough to lift the back of the Dakota up, and scoot it over about 4-5', and the tires were left with "scrub" marks were the truck slid a little after it was hit.



Thanks for any help...



Merrick

 

[MCummings]

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The 2nd pic is what he saw as he was backing out of the driveway.



If you want any measurements, I bought a cool little stanley walking wheel to measure distances. :-laf oh the excuses. .



Merrick

 

[TWilkening]

I'm no expert, but anyone who says they left a 90' skidmark going 25 is completely full of ****. I had my pickup sideways at 80 mph and the skidmarks were less than that. Don't ask how

 

[PC12Driver]

Did the Liberty's airbags deploy? If so, the airbag computer would have recorded the telemetry for the last few seconds before impact. All sorts of info. Most PDs should have someone on staff that has the equipment to read it.



Or, for a quick estimate:

Skid Speed Calculator

 

[CSnyder]

I think I need a pic of the scantily clad flirty girls to give my opinion on this.



Just kidding Merrick! I would say your buddy is getting bent over.

 

[scootergmc]

You may want to see what the insurance investigator has to say. Seems to me they would be able to see through the BS of the girls' story.

 

[fest3er]

An even better question is why were the ditzy babes driving on the wrong side of the road? It's possible the girls could be charged with willful destruction of property because, according to the physical evidence, they were aiming for your friend's pickup truck. And if they weren't aiming for the Dakota, then they were criminally negligent because they failed to maintain proper control of the vehicle. This seems to be a case where state authorities should be called in because the locals have shown themselves to be either prejudiced or incompetent.

 

[ToolManTimTaylor]

Standards: 5200-07 Computation and Estimation







Objectives: 5200-0701 Compute with whole numbers, fractions decimals, integers, and rational numbers. 5200 0706 Use estimation to check the reasonableness of results.







Abstract/Strategy:



During this activity students will determine the speed of a vehicle based on skid marks left when the vehicle was breaking. They will also determine the distance needed to stop at different speeds.







Occupational Connection:



Highway patrol officer- When called to the scene of an accident the officer would measure skid marks if any were left on the road. They would then use a given formula to determine the speed of the vehicle. They could also be called to testify in court to assure a jury of the minimum speed of the vehicle based on the length of the skid marks.







Recommended Resources/Materials:



1. a calculator for each student



2. an example of a set of skid marks or the length of a set of skid marks in feet. If available, skid marks in the parking lot could be used or an example of skid marks could be made using black markers and paper.







Time Allotted: One 45 minute class period.







Teacher Role:



If an example of skid marks is used then students need to be able to measure the mark in feet. The teacher needs to explain to students that skid marks are left on the road when a car is breaking and the breaks lock so that the wheels are no longer turning. If the car has Anti- Lock breaks, the skid marks that are left on the pavement are not continuos. The speed of the vehicle is determined by the following formula: 5. 5_(D*F) = speed. D is the distance of the skid marks in feet, and F is the drag factor. The drag factor on new concrete is . 95 and for polished concrete or asphalt the drag factor is approximately . 75. This formula will need to be explained to students and they need to follow order of operations and know how to find the square root on a calculator. Students also need to be able to change miles per hour to feet per second. For example if a car is traveling at 60 mph and they want to know the feet per second, they would first multiply 60 mph by 5280 (there are 5280 feet in one mile) to change it to feet per hour. Next divide the answer by 60 and this would change it to feet per minute, then divide by 60 again and this would change it to 88 feet per second.







Activity:



1. If a highway patrol officer is available they would be able to come and talk to the students and bring investigation photo's if available about why they measure tread marks and how they use that measurement to find the speed of the vehicle. If not available the teacher would explain this to the students. See the Work-Based Learning/Community Partner Role and Resource.



2. Students will either be given the length of the skid marks or they will measure the skid marks and then use the formula to determine the speed of the vehicle.



3. Given the fact that it take 3/4 of a second for people to react when they are driving under normal conditions, how far will a vehicle travel before the driver can react if they are traveling 70 mph? Students will need to change the mph to feet per second in order to find the distance traveled in 3/4 of a second and then use the formula to determine how many feet would be needed to stop the car.



4. An optional activity is to have students create their own sets of skid marks using a bike, then have other students to figure out how fast the bike was traveling.







Suggested Assessment:



Students need to explain why their answers are reasonable, and turn in their answers with their explanation.







Work-based Learning, Community Connection:



If a highway patrol officer is available to come into the classroom they could explain what they would do when they arrive on the scene of an accident. They could also talk about the need for different speed limits such as in cities people there is less stopping distance than on an open highway. They could also talk about the fact that skid marks are left on the road when the brakes of the car lock and the wheel is no longer turning. The length of these skid marks can be used to determine the speed of a vehicle using the formula 5. 5_(D*F)= speed.

 

[MCummings]

Yah, we will talk to an investigator.



The air bags did not go off. Her Jeep hit the Dakota at a 45* angle, and his bumper went in just above her bumper (cracking the bumper cover), then the bumper took out the grill, and bent the hood, and popped the radiator.



I wish the bags would have gone off. As we were sitting there waiting for the police, all the radiator fluid emptied out of the radiator. When the cop asked her if she wanted a wrecker, she said no, she'd be fine. LOL. I wonder how far she got?



As we were standing around talking about the deal, another suburban came down the hill and almost hit us. The 'burban must have been doing about 40 as well, and she had to hit her brakes hard, but lucky for her she had anti-lock brakes, and they were "anti-locking" all the way down the hill where she stopped about 8' from the rear of the liberty. Somehow the cop didn't see that?



When the liberty driver left the "crime scene" she didn't stop at the stop sign just around the corner and nearly had another collision.





The speed calculator shows the jeep to have been traveling between 47 and 49MPH.



Merrick

 

[MCummings]

An even better question is why were the ditzy babes driving on the wrong side of the road? It's possible the girls could be charged with willful destruction of property because, according to the physical evidence, they were aiming for your friend's pickup truck. And if they weren't aiming for the Dakota, then they were criminally negligent because they failed to maintain proper control of the vehicle. This seems to be a case where state authorities should be called in because the locals have shown themselves to be either prejudiced or incompetent.

ohh, how I like you. We will bring that up.



The bummer part was that when the cop arrived (music blaring BTW) He went and talked to the the girls and then after a while of talking he let them go, then walked over to my friend and said, "sir, I'm going to site you for "failure to yield right of way exiting a drive" and was asking him to sign.



Not once did we get to tell our side of the story. When the cop came over with his ticket book in hand, the girls were allready about 75' down the road and driving away.



Merrick

 

[PC12Driver]

Time to go talk to a supervisor.

 

[BigPapa]

My wife got rear ended in May and the joker got out, looked at his truck, got back in and left. 2 of the 3 witnesses new the guy, so the cop went to his house after writing it up. Sure enough the truck had damage consistant with the accident but the guy told him that he had done that the night before to his brothers truck so guess what? The cop says "Thank you" and leaves!



The assistant chief's daughter is married to a good friend of mine and she's a cop in another town, so I gave her a call. 30 minutes later her daddy called and said that the officer had been suspended and they had sent another car to arrest the guy. What are these small town cops thinking?



Scott

 

[rbattelle]

Do they make Liberties without ABS?

Ryan

 

[DJW]

Some years ago while backing out of his driveway this person was struck by a speeding vehicle. He was cited for the accident, claims vehicle backing into traffic is at fault in that type of collision. Tip, in any accident never claim you had Right of Way. Going legal speed limit in fast lane is no excuse for Blocking Traffic, (civilian traffic)

 

[CJ Johansson]

Well, as an ex-LEO, I'd have to say that the citation for not yielding right of way is technically correct. And, the girls may also be cited for speeding following the investigation.

It's the same as technically being at fault for read-ending someone, even if they slammed on their brakes right in front of you. You were following too close for safety.

So, when coming out of a driveway, traffic on the road has right of way, if you get hit, you didn't yield to them. There's nothing in the law that says you only have to yield the right of way if the other traffic isn't breaking any laws.

Now, all that being said, if the other car was coming so fast, around curves, etc. that it was impossible for you to yield, well, that's not something for the LEO to decide, he's just supposed to take the action based on the facts that he knows. That's what the courts are for, and your friend should definitely contest the citation and take it to court.

After the investigation, if it becomes determined as a fact that the other car was speeding, that driver may indeed (and should if true) be cited. This may also reverse the citation for failure to yield as well.

-cj