Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Member feedback on Banks Proposal

[RKrueger]

Hi guys,
I don't get much opportunity to visit here, sorry to say.
Anyhow, we may purchase a 34 - 36 ft Toy Hauler, and because my 99 Dually has a 3:55 rear end, I'll need more power. Right now, it's got 4" SS Exhaust Turbo to Tailpipe, and AFE Mega Cannon, and an Edge EZ. It's fine, but even with our current trailer, I noticed a lack of pulling power in the 2000 - 2100 rpm
band going up long hills. I need to mention it's an auto trans, but with a triple disc torque converter and a DTT valve body and other mods.
So I phoned Banks and here's their suggestion:

High Ram Air Inlet Casting
Banks' streamlined, cast-metal High-Ram air inlet replaces the factory's smaller, angular piece for a 56% reduction in pressure loss. Greater boost on the intake side-without increased backpressure at the turbine-makes the engine more responsive and fuel-efficient.

Quick Turbo Assembly
Banks developed the Quick-Turbo in conjunction with the Holset turbocharger and Cummins Engine companies, to eliminate sluggishness "out of the hole" and produce strong acceleration. Quick-Turbo produces massive torque right from idle, achieves a higher peak faster, maintains more boost through the powerband, and doesn't over-boost. Banks' exclusive BigHead® wastegate actuator prevents "wastegate blow-open" by keeping the valve seated at higher pressures, increasing mid-range torque and top-end power.

Big Hoss Diesel Tuner *High Powered Version
* High Powered version capable to be programmed to the following Levels.
Level 1 50hp/115 lb-ft
Level 2 75 / 193
Level 3 100 / 238
Level 4 130 / 262
Level 5 160 / 317

A three part solution from Banks.
Two questions come immediately to mind:

1. Because I had Cummins replace the Bosch VP44 with a Viton sealed one last fall, I don't want to overstress this one, so I'm wondering if this will do that.

2. I'm surprised Banks didn't suggest an injector change. They do have a good reputation for engineering solutions instead of just piling on parts that don't play well together, but I was curious was some of you more knowledgeable gearheads thought of this.

They said to remove the Edge EZ, and install the other stuff, my engine breathes fine the way it is for the mods.

So I was wondering what you guys thought of this proposal and whether any of the other members was using this combo.

Thanks,
Robert

 

[johncameron]

I have a Big Hoss level 5 and I wouldn't recommend removing the EZ. You can run them both together as the big hoss only adds fuel through the pump wire.



That said, the down side to the big hoss is it is not adjustable, The TST is.



I prefer my DDII injectors over the big hoss for towing, the power is smoother.



The big hoss adds alot of power and it surges too much for towing with my setup.



Others will bash banks for sure in this thread, it is normal.



Injectors may be your best choice.



John

 

[JTruelove]

I have the same setup, but only I installed a Smarty. Great Combo, went to Florida empty with just about 500lbs in the bed and got 20mpg running between 75 and 85. Be sure to wear the HAZMAT suite, because most here do not like Banks equipment nor their customer service. There are trucks that are faster than mine or put out more smoke, but its been my daily driver and haven't seen the troubles that some have posted.

 

[Rattlin_Ram]

Skip the Banks, and keep the EZ with a set of RV275's or MACH 1's or 1. 5's. It'll be cheaper and easier IMHO.

 

[RKrueger]

John,
I'm confused... are you using the Big Hoss and EZ together AND the injectors (Diesel Dynamics)?
When you installed the injectors, has your mileage decreased?

Rattlin Ram,
What are MACH 1's?

As I haven't been in here for quite some time, why is everybody so down on Banks?

Thanks,
Robert

 

[johncameron]

I am using a Smarty / Big-Hoss / DDII inj trio.

The EZ does the same type of fueling as a SMARTY, just not as good

My milage may have dropped . 5MPG with these injectors. I gained that back and more with the SMARTY.

John

 

[AFoulk]

Mach 1's are injectors made by Formula 1 Diesel. the word around here is F1 injectors are some of the best you can buy. As long as you can keep your foot out of it, you will usually get better mileage with upgraded injectors. As for the Banks stuff, I don't care for it, but to each his own. I have heard from some guys that have done a bit of work to their trucks have actually lost some power when they put the Banks High Ram intake on. For what you wanna do, your stock manifold is good enough. The only downside I could see to going with injectors is if you go to big and your egt's start climbing. Atleast if you go with a module, you can lower the power level... with injectors, your stuck with what you got.

 

[KKunz]

this is how I feel about banks

https://www.turbodieselregister.com...998-5-2002/181259-wow-banks-high-ram-pos.html

 

[Rattlin_Ram]

injectors24



I guess they are 1. 6's now, but same thing... If you are doing a lot of towing I don't think I'd want a smarty, but that's IMHO. The only other thing I'd do if you are not looking to upgrade turbo's is maybe swap out the EZ for a COMP or JUICE so you can turn it up and down.



The stock turbo should keep the small injectors cool on a low comp setting. What EGT's do you see now?



I'm guessing that BANKS total would be over $2000 or so? $600 for Mach 1's and sell the EZ for $250-300 and buy a Comp for around $5-600. You'll have about $900-1000 in it and have the same if not more HP than the banks kit. Or buy a set of RV275's for $300 on ebay and get by even cheaper.



The Big Hoss tuner adding 160hp? I'd have to see an independent dyno sheet on that! Evidently the Big Hoss taps the wire?

 

[MStrain]

My truck is a daily driver with occasional towing, I love the Banks Six Gun, it is safe, not worried about frying my $40K truck and has plenty of power, I normally drive around on three, occasionally ill kick it up to six for fun. I have tried the Smarty and it is really good, i like how you don't have to install anything, but the downloads are slow and you can't just turn a knob like my Six Gun. Also the smoke is out of hand with the Smarty, you have to be careful not to black out intersections everytime the light turns green. Until Smarty figures out how to make power without excessive smoke like Banks has than I'll stick with my Six Gun w/speedloader. Also the Banks has top notch build quality and has been very reliable. I used to have the Edge EZ and it was a cheap piece of junk and my engine didn't sound smooth, with the Banks the truck runs as smooth as stock, also the Edge gave me very little power not too noticeable. I don't know where people get prices from, the Six Gun and speedloader which comes with the pyrometer cost me a little over $600, cheaper than the $685 Smarty.

 

[Rattlin_Ram]

MStrain you're talking about an '06 common rail, we are talking about a 98 24v. Correct?



COMPLETELY different!



I've been in an '04 w/ a 6 Gun with I believe a TST stacked (could be wrong on the stack) and that truck ran WELL! But his stock tq converter wasn't loving life much...

 

[BTowler]

The Banks high ram actually drops your hp, there have been more than a couple of posts with dyno results about this.

There is also this post: https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/general-diesel-topics/188155-edge-vs-banks.html

Save your money and go with a Smarty or Edge Juice and a mild set of injectors. Banks is a marketing company, they want you to buy a package deal at a ridiculous price.

 

[SHobbs]

Why not a set of M1. 6's, smarty and say umm ps62/14. I am in the same boat as you. I want a little more and the M1. 6's with a Smarty is the direction I am going. The turbo is the tricky part I want to keep my E-brake.

 

[Boondocker]

From where you are now, mod-wise, I would recommend just adding RV275 injectors. I would say that the Edge EZ + RV275 injectors was the best towing combo I ever used and by far the best value. Of course I wanted more. My current setup provides more power than I need for towing around 17K lbs. Running the Smarty on level #3, which is the stock fueling program plus timing and fuel, I'm still overfueled. With the (90 hp) injectors and stock turbo, I have to keep a close eye on the EGT gauge going uphill.



By the way, you stated "lack of pulling power between 2000 and 2100 rpm". That's the sweet spot for my engine, exactly where I prefer to keep it while towing. My basic advise is, don't go overboard by adding power you can't use because it makes too much heat.



Neil

 

[BTowler]

To address your questions though, 1-Viton is superior to nbr or epdm so that should not be any more of an issue than any other vp44, actually less since it is a stronger material. 2-Banks products don't work well with larger injectors (at least on the 2nd gen trucks), or turbos, they are made to work with the stock parts.



As far as lack of power, just do the mods I suggested above and you will have plenty of power, but be aware, there are some issues with the Smarty and auto 2nd gens, see here https://www.turbodieselregister.com...2/181785-smarty-auto-conversation-thread.html .

 

[DEdwards]

because my 99 Dually has a 3:55 rear end, I'll need more power.

You don't need more stuff, you need a lower gear if you are going to pull a 34' to 36' toyhauler.

 

[16919]

rv275 will do nicely.....

 

[RKrueger]

Well, I want to thank all you guys for your input, it certainly was worth the time to construct the thread, and I learned a lot.

Based on the input, I think I'll can the Banks stuff, move up to the Edge Juice, as I contacted Edge and they will allow me to upgrade from the EZ at 50% off.

I think I'll buy a set of the DD Stage 1 or 2 injectors. From previous conversations with DD, their Stage 1 is the same hole size, but they polish and shape the interior to produce a much finer mist that supposedly gains around 30 hp through more efficient combustion. But I'll contact them again to get their $0. 02 worth before I make a decision on which Stage to buy.

The Banks turbo shell change actually made sense to me, though, it sounded pretty good. What do you guys think? Is there a similar alternative?



BTW, that whole Banks setup is quoted at $1700. 00.



Regards,

Robert

 

[RKrueger]

DEdwards,
Yes, you are correct that I could use the 4:10's, but that's too pricey for me, especially in a 4x4. If the mods don't work, I'll sell it and buy a new one with the 6. 7, but I'm hoping I won't have to for a couple more years. I put $13,000 into the truck last year to get it to like-new mechanically, including a new HD transmission and injection pump. I'm trying to make do for a little longer.

Regards,
Robert

 

[NoSeeUm]

From where you are now, mod-wise, I would recommend just adding RV275 injectors. I would say that the Edge EZ + RV275 injectors was the best towing combo I ever used and by far the best value. Of course I wanted more. My current setup provides more power than I need for towing around 17K lbs. Running the Smarty on level #3, which is the stock fueling program plus timing and fuel, I'm still overfueled. With the (90 hp) injectors and stock turbo, I have to keep a close eye on the EGT gauge going uphill.



By the way, you stated "lack of pulling power between 2000 and 2100 rpm". That's the sweet spot for my engine, exactly where I prefer to keep it while towing. My basic advise is, don't go overboard by adding power you can't use because it makes too much heat.



Neil

This is the best advice in my opinion. When towing the most (first) limiting factor is EGT. Then around 400 Hp the coolant temperature will be a problem.



If you decide to go with the Banks be prepared to use it very sparingly while towing until you can upgrade your turbo. With the Banks and EZ stacked their settings at full tilt you would need air for close to 350 - 400 Hp. This is way to much to tow with using a stock turbo.



You can also look at running smaller tires, just check the weight ratings to make sure they will handle your trailers tongue weight.



I have 285's on my truck, too high of a gear ratio for pulling grades in 5th gear most of the time. The truck will pull it and keep EGT's below 1200, but the drive train takes a beating. But those tires also put me around 2250 rpm for 60 mph in 4th gear. That is an rpm the truck can run at all day long. At that rpm my truck pulls very well with zero EGT issues. Running in 5th gear empty I am at 1800 rpm at 65 mph. Another option for you.



Jim