Here I am

Might have found a fix for hard shifting

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dtt or ats trans builders

Oil analysis labs????

Good Job Guys...

Surprise, surprise. Wow, you guys did a good job on this thread. Oil and trannys "all-in-one. " A little friction modifier and va voom. Only a little heat rise. Guess that’s what temperature gauges are for. :D Good job. Well done. And I thought it was just us Auto guys. :D Commendations all around.



PS. Kris (Gizmo 007), I think you did the right thing. Good job. :cool: :cool: :cool:



PPS I love this site… :D
 
I've been beating on some more transmission guys... here it was I've

learned today... . I'm not saying this is holy grail but it makes some sense if it is for real...



NV chose the Texaco MTX because it has next to basically the lowest sulfur content of any petroleum based oil. . (all oils have some)... suflur is bad for the yellow metals in the transmission...



this explains Sledpullers book:

Amsoil's Synthetic manufacturing process does not add sulfur that is why the Texaco can cross reference over to Amsoil



Take if for what you think its worth, these were not individuals I know well but like I said it makes some sense



-Matt
 
I guess nobidy read my post, so I will post it again!



All you people who have the NV-5600 transmissions prior to the 2003 may have some sort of plate on the side of it, making some statement concerning a specific product, but I'm telling you my 2003 model does not have any such thing. In the Repair manual, this is what it says about the brand of lube.



NOTE: DaimlerChrysler recommends using Mopar

lubricants or lubricants of equal quality.



Transmission Lubricant- NV5600 - Mopar Manual Transmission Lubricant.



This tells me I can use any Manual Transmission Lubricant I want as long as it is of "equal quality", and I'm doing just that, however it is of a higher quality!



Wayne

amsoilman
 
Thanks guys..... you have totally confussed me :confused: not the first time though. . In order to be fair, and wayne you know me, I put Amsoil 75w-90w gear lube in my front differential tonite!!!! I also put 8oz. of prolong in the NV5600 with yesterdays Redline MTL. I use Delo 400 15-40 in my crankcase, and Mopar gear lube with modifier in the rear differential. I have had a six Pack of Bud ( not lite) for me, so all fluid levels are topped off. :D



I will report later on my findings for the truck... As far as I'm concerned, Bud works just fine for me, and never had any problems in 47 years!!!:) :)



later, Steve
 
Well after reading the 9 pages here, I am going to take the case of Redline I bought and put the required amount of it in. I will have enough left for another change then need more for the next one. I have 34k on my truck now and have towed with it 3 times of low weight trailers (5k lbs) Should be dirty enough... .



Thanks to all that replied and discussed, and for the triers of the fluids. shifting fine at 18 deg?, thats good. We get really cold weather here in Salt Lake City. the record low here on this date in 1932 was -21:eek:



i plan on changing the transfercase with the normal ATF that it needs... .
 
My truck was built in 4/02 and there is NO sticker with a fluid recommendation on either of the PTO cover plates on my NV-5600 (just plain ol bare metal). Maybe this trend started when Texico was bought-out and no longer the official suppier of lube for the NV-5600??



The 2002 Owner's Manual states the following:



"Lubricant Selection for NV-5600

This transmission if filled with manual transmission fluid at the factory. This fluid does not require periodic changing. If it is necessary to add or change the fluid in this transmission use Mopar manual transmission fluid (Mopar P/N 4874464). This is the only lubricant recommended for use in the NV-5600 transmission. "



So since the Owner's Manual states Mopar lube is the ONLY fluid RECOMMENDED, does that mean DC needs to provide us with the fluid (since it's the ONLY fluid they see fit to use) or do they get off on the technicality of it is RECOMMENDED, but not absolutely necessary or else the transmission will self destruct when using anything other than Mopar branded lube???



I'm still inclined to hunt for something better than the precious Mopar lube DC recommends we buy.
 
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Originally posted by NVR FNSH

Because it's a pyramid scheme:D Sorry, I couldn't resist.



Seriously, I'd love to see some documentation (maybe a dyno sheet - reference to the dieselstop thread - preferrably from a 3rd party) that SHOWS that Amsoil, Redline, Royal Purple or any other fluid meets the spec.



Brian



NVR - If Redline / Royal Purple / or any other aftermarket supplier makes a lube that "meets the DC Spec", you'd get exactly what you can already buy from the stealer. The problem is, people with the NV 5600 are complaining about poor shifting quality.



I believe that the point here is that they want a "better" fluid than the DC Spec. It is available from these after market suppliers. however, due to differing lubricant technologies used, neither the Redline MTL nor Royal Purple Synchromax can be "certified' to meet the DC spec because they are not "exact copies" of the spec fluid.



Worry about performance, not specs.

I've read nothing but good things about people who have tried the RP Synchromax in the NV 5600 (and Tremecs and T-5's and ZF's) where the fluid HAS improved shift quality and operation.



But, if you want poor shifting and are worried about warranty, then your only choice is the factory lube.



By the way, I've been using RP MaxGear 75W90 in my NV4500 for 5+ years and 120K with excellent results. Before that, I used RP products in my 89 Getrag which is still running at over 300K.



RP makes great products.
 
Originally posted by Gary - KJ6Q

I especially liked THIS part:



"NVG will not condone the use of

alternative fluids in any of our products. "





Sorta tells ya what NV thinks of cross-referenced stuff that is supposedly "just as good" or "equivelent to", but doesn't *specifically* meet the spec... ;) :D



Bullsh%% Gary.



I work for a manufacturer of lubricants and what this means is that New Venture does not want to mesh with the time and effort of checking out the alternatives to the one that they chose.



I have personally talked with an engineer at NV on the NV4500 about an alternative lube and was told that the NV4500 was too small a volume product line to support additional testing of lubricants. Castrol Syntorq was chosen due the Castrol being the OEM supplier in place when this transmission was designed and built. I offered "free oil" to New Venture for comparison testing, even priced the higher performing product below that of the Castrol Syntorq and they were not interested.



Stop looking through rose colored glasses Gary. NV is out to make parts at minimum cost, not the best they know how. Otherwise, how can you explain the half spline 5th gear shaft on the NV 4500?
 
"Stop looking through rose colored glasses Gary. NV is out to make parts at minimum cost, not the best they know how. "



Totally *unlike* Amsoil, whose *ONLY INTEREST* is in making happy and joyous customers - special lubricants for specific applications, carefully meeting or exceeding EACH and EVERY spec? Sorta like GM, DC and Ford are ONLY INTERESTED in making happy and satisfied customers - no matter WHAT they must do to accomplish that goal?



And YOU accuse ME of looking thru "rose colered glasses"? SHEESH!



"New Venture does not want to mesh with the time and effort of checking out the alternatives to the one that they chose. "



And of course, outfits like Amsoil would NEVER do that - try to use the best match in a lube they ALREADY had for a border-line application... NAHHHhh - instead, they would do the "right thing" and spend the time money and effort to develop a fully complying lube that clearly meets ALL those specs - and is clearly marked and certified to do so... Yeah, SUUuuure they would = especially on a product that even you admit is a low-volume product:



"was told that the NV4500 was too small a volume product line to support additional testing of lubricants. "



And THAT was the 5-speed - which sells FAR more units than the 6-speeds do!



So NV wouldn't take advantage of your offer of a lube to test? Tell ya what, GM specifies Dexron III in THEIR 6-speed trannies - waltz on over to GM and make THEM the same offer - in fact offer to PAY them $50,000 to test yer stuff - and I'd be willing to bet THEY would tell you to take a hike as well - those outfits have neither the NEED, time or motivation to do involved lube testing for every fly-by-night outfit wanting into the game - especially when they ALREADY have a proven supplier with a clearly demonstrated ability to provide a spec-meeting lube for their needs - all competing refiners need do is MATCH or EXCEED that spec - Redline has done that - so has Pennzoil - why can't Amsoil do the same?



All Amzoil need do is print right on their bottles, "Meets or exceeds Chrysler spec #MS-9224", and all is well, and THIS debate is over - what's so hard about that? WHY won't Amsoil do it? Seems most of the "discussions" we have here concerning Amsoil in particular revolves around their steadfast inability or refusal to "play by the rules" and obtain the same certifications and provide the same spec lubes the competition does - ya gotta wonder WHY...



Some here will insist it's because "Amsoil is so much BETTER than spec, they can't get certification... " - which is a lot like saying yer doctor is SO much better than all the others, HE can't get a diploma... :p :p



It's already been WELL pointed out that lubes designed for BEST operation in ENGINES, do NOT work best in transmissions - the loads and functions are DIFFERENT, requiring differing characteristics - and it would seem to follow that a transmission oil designed for best operation in a transmission would not be best in an engine either, for the same reasons!



Yet Amsoils engine lubes are supposed to excell in BOTH applications? Rose colored glasses? UNH-HUNHhhhh! ;)



"One size" isn't likely to fit all needs - or at least to do it as well as SPECIFICALLY designed and spec'd stuff will... Wanna use a "compromise" product - have at it, chances are you'll get by with it in a reasonable manner - unless you frequently run yer transmission out at the ragged edge of it's ratings in terms of load, heat and torque - but shucks, if you only put yer transmission to moderate usage, Wesson oil might just do the trick for ya too...



Yeah, *I* wear "rose-colored glasses"... .

:p ;) :D



Wanna debate the issue more - or are we now to name-calling time?:-{}
 
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Well to update... As you know I changed my trans fluid to Redline MTL. . Next day added 8oz. of Prolong to the mix. . Yeaaa babyyyyyy!!! The redline MTL made a noticible difference over the Mopar fluid, and the Prolong sealed the deal with shifting like butter!!! Still can't believe it. I'm not an advicate of "moose juice" additives, however, this combination does work. . Instead of draining 8oz. of Redline MTL, to make up the difference for the Prolong, I un-bolted the top 9/16" nut on top of the PTO which is higher then the fill hole and injected the prolong into the transmission. It was instant results.



There maybe other combinations, like with Amsoil and Prolong or Energy Release. . but this works!! Next time I'm going to try Redline with Energy Release, if and when hard shifting ever occurs. .



I purchased the Redline MTL (5qts. @ at 8. 75) and the Prolong at $12. 95, maybe not the best prices, but for under $60. 00 my shifting problems went away and real happy. . :D :D



HeberRam again takes his Ram into the unknown for the benefit of TDR members. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:



Steve
 
HeberRam,



Again, you except the information for what it's worth, process it, and decide whether it is worth trying (will it benefit you) and took the plunge. Now I know why your truck is so awesome. Thank you for trying my suggestion. I am glad that it turned out good for you. :) I would not have brought this to the board if it had not come from a very good source with overwhelming success.





Peter
 
just replaced the trans fluid with redline. I havent driven more than 10 miles since yet but so far, it is much easier to get into reverse and the shifting is smoother. and it is 40 deg here right now going down fast, snow coming.



I also did a little synpower power streering fluid in the PS , just added a little to top off, BOY! what a diff. the wheel turns twice as easy! on hard parking lot turns.



Wayne, Later on I will buy some of that 75W90 diff lub from you. I have the Mag hytec so I will need 8 qts plus the front which has the mag also. It is like 1 qt more than stock I think... Let me know how much. Be after new yr.
 
Prolong: says for automatic & manual transmissions

Eric... There are several different Prolong products... Get the one that says for automatic & manual transmission... It comes in an 8oz. gold and purplish box. Can be found at Pep Boys, Checkers, Autozone etc. Best price I've found is Walmart if there is one near you... As far a Energy Release another good product I've tried(however, not in trans yet) is only available at Checkers. . ER good to add to power steering, motor oil, diff etc. 2oz. per Qt. of oil... just a dab in power steering.



Good luck... let us know if the prolong makes a difference for you. .



Steve
 
Originally posted by redram

NV is out to make parts at minimum cost, not the best they know how. Otherwise, how can you explain the half spline 5th gear shaft on the NV 4500?



I think RedRam hit the nail on the head.



I use Synchromax in my 5600 and it is a definate improvement in shift quality as well as lower lube temps. I had to find a better lube since I had two 5600 die because of severe grinding. This 5600 (& Synchromax) shifts the best of all. Time will tell.



I wouldnt be afraid to try Amsoil, RedLine, Synchromax or the stuff that Peter (thanks Peter) suggested or mashed bannas. The OEM lube leaves much to be desired.



The only consideration here is that if you dont use OEM lube you *may* have your warranty denied. PERIOD. It wont matter to DC if Amsoil or God himself said the replacement was "equivelant".



Photo of OEM lube @ 30k miles:



https://www.turbodieselregister.com/user_gallery/displayimage.php?&photoid=2213&width=1
 
Last edited:
Originally posted by Tejas Deezul



The only consideration here is that if you dont use OEM lube you *may* have your warranty denied. PERIOD. It wont matter to DC if Amsoil or God himself said the replacement was "equivelant".




Seems like that might be REAL important to members that would reather spend their $$$ on something other than buying a new 6 speed transmission, that is under warranty if you use the OEM lube. I've read the entire thread and several members feel that some alternative lubes have given them better service. I would be more inclined to try something other than the OEM recommended lube if 20 or more members have not had any problems with the alternative lube they have been using for "say" over 100K miles. Seems like miles and time would be a better test for an alternate lube then "feels better"? JMHO. Of course mine shifts great. But if it did not shift great I would beat up on the dealer until it did. That is what a warranty is for!!
 
Comes a time when ya gotta "let go" of a worn out thread, guess it's about that time for this one - after one more point/comment...



Oil specs deal with a number of aspects - some deal with wear, others with heat, flow ability in cold, shear, etc. , etc. NOW, a fella having a problem with stiff shifting might well find a "substitute" or "compromise" lube that is actually superior in HIS specific case, and delivers smoother shifting he was seeking - and of course, he's happy as a clam and will swear he's discovered the "perfect lubricant" - and it MIGHT be, in HIS specific case, and under the conditions he most often uses his vehicle.



But what he might NOT be aware of, or sensitive to, are the OTHER important characteristics and specifications required in his choice that are NOT quite as apparent - things like detergency of the lube - how well it deals with shear forces and heat/cold extremes - and wear protection - all over the LONG haul. For SOME, it might be WORTH a small sacrifice in some of the more obscure aspects of lube specs, IF their choice deals well with the one glaring problem they are most concerned about at the time... Though the others may at some future time raise up and bite them on the a$$...



I remember other past similar lube issues, where individuals switched to a "new and superior" engine lube, and gloated loudly at "how clean" their oil stayed with the new "wonder stuff"... Later, after 30-40 thousand miles, they paid the price for that "clean oil" in sludge build-up, clogged smog valves and noisy lifters - because their "clean oil" was obtained due to loss of detergency that PROPER SPEC oils include to keep sludge and contaminents in suspension, to be drained in regular (NOT extended!) oil changes.



Ya gotta be careful - as PB points out, that yer SHORT TERM gains, don't turn out to have a LONGER TERM penalty!:p ;) :D



I'm outta here... :D
 
Originally posted by redram

NVR - If Redline / Royal Purple / or any other aftermarket supplier makes a lube that "meets the DC Spec", you'd get exactly what you can already buy from the stealer. The problem is, people with the NV 5600 are complaining about poor shifting quality.



I believe that the point here is that they want a "better" fluid than the DC Spec. It is available from these after market suppliers. however, due to differing lubricant technologies used, neither the Redline MTL nor Royal Purple Synchromax can be "certified' to meet the DC spec because they are not "exact copies" of the spec fluid.



Worry about performance, not specs.

I've read nothing but good things about people who have tried the RP Synchromax in the NV 5600 (and Tremecs and T-5's and ZF's) where the fluid HAS improved shift quality and operation.



But, if you want poor shifting and are worried about warranty, then your only choice is the factory lube.



By the way, I've been using RP MaxGear 75W90 in my NV4500 for 5+ years and 120K with excellent results. Before that, I used RP products in my 89 Getrag which is still running at over 300K.



RP makes great products.



redram,

The DC spec is a MINIMUM specification. The various fluids can meet or exceed the stated spec. I don't know exactly what DC/NV spec requires or how the trans fluid spec relates to NV5600 performance specs. I want to know that I'm not robbing peter to pay paul - ie I can live with the shifting if the trans will last 300K if my choice for getting smooth shifting is to cut the life of my synchros to 75K.



Does anybody - Amsoil/Redline/Royal Purple etc - have any reliablity testing data for their recommended fluids in either the 4500 or 5600? I'm not talking about Jim Bob ran our 5W-30 for 150K and the synchros look good. I'm talking about hardcore transmission dyno testing type stuff - you know, controlled engineering/R&D tests? Put your money where your mouth is and show me the data.



Brian
 
Unfortunately no, this type of test data that you are requesting is not available due to the lack of ROI due to the small potential market. A company would have to capture the ENTIRE market for NV4500's or NV 5600's (two different fluids) to justify the expense of performing the type of testing that you are asking for.



Ask for the dyno reports on the Castrol Syntorq or Texaco MTX? How do you know that these fluids were not chosen due to 'low bid' scenarios rather than the end all to meet end all?



I've not seen any conclusive test reports justifying the 26/ quart price or the only average results that I have seen in my 10+ years of owning a Cummins powered vehicle



I can stand behind the product that I believe. If you use one of them, and the fluid fails and causes the damage, then as a manufacturer in the US, we are required by law to have liability insurance. It has to be proven that the lubricant was the casue of the failure / damage.



Hey, if you're not ready to accept that there may / are better lubricants for the applications on our trucks, then use the OEM fluids. No one is forcing you to do anything but your choice. But you shouldn't force your feelings on others who have tried things that they find have improved the shift quality.



The product that I am recommending has been used in very heavy duty transmission service in excess fo 10 years for government use and mass transit use where the average transmission life tripled in service from the previous fluid.

This was in GM, Dodge, and Ford applications with heavier payloads than our 2500 or 3500 trucks.
 
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