Modified Fuel Rails?

[boomchadda]

Does anyone know anything about the wild rails from T&C Diesel? Thinking about getting them for my truck. Is it worth installing?

 

[TGarris]

Yes, I did mine about a week ago. Noticable diff. and cheaper than a dual feed fuel line. Todd has been a huge help to me with this, and with a seperate problem that I am having with truck. Todd And Chris Are knowlegable and willing to help.

 

[Lightman]

Yes, I did mine about a week ago. Noticable diff. and cheaper than a dual feed fuel line. Todd has been a huge help to me with this, and with a seperate problem that I am having with truck. Todd And Chris Are knowlegable and willing to help.

Something I would like to know is how does the Modified Fuel Rail supply more fuel with only the stock feed line to feed it, you can only put so much fuel through that very small tube from the CP3.

 

[Tomeygun]

Does anyone know anything about the wild rails from T&C Diesel? Thinking about getting them for my truck. Is it worth installing?

though I can claim no max HP gain (due to the day I was testing my relief valve went belly up)... I CAN claim an increase in the bottom end tq

Thats for sure

 

[TCDiesel]

Something I would like to know is how does the Modified Fuel Rail supply more fuel with only the stock feed line to feed it, you can only put so much fuel through that very small tube from the CP3.

You can Upgrade the line, the factory rail is max capacity at 1800 RPMs or less, the CP3 runs @ have engine RPMs. any type of additional HP will put the the dry side way beyond the wet side. Example: the injection Dry side ( electronic Injection) dose NOT depend on RPMs, the additional fuel requirement's to support the added HP will be restricted at the rail. If the dry side requires more fuel then the wet side (Fuel supply) the pressure will drop and the system will adjust. . (if not being fooled). . if being fooled watch out eventual Injector(s) or engine failure is eminent.

Their are owners producing incredible amounts of HP on the dyno (3 second event) without modded rail. In any competition (Race or Pull) the Modded rail owner will have a Huge advantage. . My stand point is if you are adding any HP modded rail should be consider Part of the system to support it.

The complexities of the CR is enormous,Please feel free to contact us for any questions.

 

[Floor It]

The CP3 pump runs at the RPM as the crank 1 to 1.



John

 

[Triton]

The CP3 pump runs at the RPM as the crank 1 to 1.



John

John, can you say how running 4000K rpm's will affect the CP3 if it's 1:1 ? Also, with duals... the one pump is belt driven so it's not going to be affected by the rpm increase. How does that all work out ?

 

[Triton]

Something I would like to know is how does the Modified Fuel Rail supply more fuel with only the stock feed line to feed it, you can only put so much fuel through that very small tube from the CP3.

To maybe help with Todd's explanation, the rail is a storage tank. By modding it you've increased the size of the tank. There's a little more fuel available to be sucked out.

 

[Snoxracer]

Does diesel fuel compress? No, so what ever is leaving the rail has to be replaced with the same amount form the CP3. The rail is not like a air tank that has storage because fuel can not compress. The only thing that I can see the modded rail doing is increase flow. Cause if you are draining your rail pressure, and you mod your rail your, and do nothing else, your saying that it will support more HP?

 

[TCDiesel]

The CP3 pump runs at the RPM as the crank 1 to 1.



John

The high pressure pump is connected to the camshaft and therefore driven with half the engine speed. It contains three pump plungers which are pumping fuel into the high pressure pipe that leads to the main rail. In an ideal situation the pressure signal from the pump would have been a constant signal. In reality the signal contains mainly three sinus-waves with different phase. The main frequency of this signal is therefore three times the frequency of the pump ( the frequency of half the engine speed), which means around () Hz at an engine speed.

 

[TCDiesel]

Does diesel fuel compress? No, so what ever is leaving the rail has to be replaced with the same amount form the CP3. The rail is not like a air tank that has storage because fuel can not compress. The only thing that I can see the modded rail doing is increase flow. Cause if you are draining your rail pressure, and you mod your rail your, and do nothing else, your saying that it will support more HP?

The Cp3 is NOT capable of a constant supply, its done in waves or pulses, under extreme Pressure. . lengthen the wave or the Pulse. the entire system pass the Pump is affected. .

 

[Snoxracer]

The Cp3 is NOT capable of a constant supply, its done in waves or pulses, under extreme Pressure. . lengthen the wave or the Pulse. the entire system pass the Pump is affected. .

How are you lengthening the wave or the pulse by modding the rail? Plus not sure what you really mean?



My point on the situation is, liquid (diesel fuel) does not compress, so no matter how big of rail you have, what ever fuel leaves the rail has to be replaced by the CP3 pump, if it comes in pulses, waves or what ever. So if your CP3 can't support the mods you have, by changing the rail is not going to give you increased capacity.



I could see that it could give you a little better flow.

 

[TCDiesel]

How are you lengthening the wave or the pulse by modding the rail? Plus not sure what you really mean?



My point on the situation is, liquid (diesel fuel) does not compress, so no matter how big of rail you have, what ever fuel leaves the rail has to be replaced by the CP3 pump, if it comes in pulses, waves or what ever. So if your CP3 can't support the mods you have, by changing the rail is not going to give you increased capacity.



I could see that it could give you a little better flow.

Correct, A stock Pump can produce more volume than a factory rail will support, Now add hp,Injectors,turbo,intake,lift system, etc. Example: turn you basement faucets Hot & cold on than shut them intensely, the Pipes will rap or hammer effect, Now increase the Pressure X366 and increase the frequency X500, how long before the faucet is destroyed, now add four more valves,open one or two at a time, do this 30 to 60 time a second. . with demand comes reaction.

Please DO NOT get the impression that modded rail(s) should replace upgraded Pumps. For the owner that want to squeeze a little more out of the stock Pumps modded rails will do that, Modded rail(s) will also support upgrades and twin pumps.

 

[SShafranko]

If you are upgrading your fuel system why would you do 75, 60 or 80 percent of it? Add the fuel pump, bigger lines, mod the CP3, bigger rail, and injectors. Complete the system! I think it makes sence. Doesn't it? I have never seen a fuel injected performance gas car which had 300 horsepower added to it without changing the fuel rails.

 

[speedyjdl]

May not compress but it would definately add volume, which sounds good to me.

 

[Snoxracer]

But my point is, what ever is in the rail has to be replaced by that same amount or other wise you loose rail pressure.



So if this being true that a modded rail helps, then why don't you make a rail that has a 20 gallon capacity?



If you have a given area (rail) and you pressurize to a given amount (22,000psi) with fluid and remove ONE DROP the pressure will drop to ZERO. Yes with one drop, the only way it will maintain pressure is if you add that same drop back to the system.



I do pressure vessel testing on 4000 liter tanks and to do it we use a hydro tester to do this. One, because water does not compress, and if you have any leak (even a drop) the vessel will loose pressure. If you were to use air on that big of tank, it could take many hours before we would see any pressure drop with a small leak. This way with water you will know instantly, because like I said before, one drop will make a huge difference on our tanks.

 

[TCDiesel]

Its a distribution center, Not a storage center, except when off.

 

[Snoxracer]

Its a distribution center, Not a storage center, except when off.

Exactly, so why does everyone want to make it bigger?



And my only point that I am trying to make here is that since fuel does not compress, anything that leaves the fuel rail has to be replaced! No matter how big, small or other, whatever leaves the fuel rail has to be replaced by the CP3 or you loose rail pressure.

 

[BManier]

Well as Twest pointed out this is not a storage tank. Making the rail bigger may not add any more fuel on tap by compression however it will change the hydro dynamics of the system. I can not do any calculations on the system but it should allow a decrease in flow resistance, a change in instantaneous velocities, and could even change the flow characteristics (Laminar/Turbulent). Now I am not saying this is good or bad. I would honestly think the fittings would be more of a limiting factor in power. This would be the last modification I would make to my fuel system.

 

[TCDiesel]

1&6 are ported Bigger, 2 thru 5 are machine Bigger. The lines are now the limiting factor, I have larger tubing (rated 50k) and fittings ,But I have not found any who will form them to factory. I have look for close to a year. I am open to suggestion or tips...