Motor Oil Bickering

[GSchlegel]

Hey Steve,



I've read all the posts from the Amsoil converts and the way I read it, Don trys to respond to their statements such as:



"There are numerous large OTR tractor rigs using Amsoil 15W-40 HDD&M as well as their newer 5W-30 HDD synthetic in conjunction with their Dual Bypass filtration systems with 200,000 miles plus... and I mean PLUS! I can't even remember how many such rigs that I've seen showcased in the Amsoil monthly magazine as well as other Amsoil literature. "



"Amsoil has nothing to gain by offering inferior products at high prices. They would not be around long if they were doing this. This I believe to be true regardless of the API certification(or lack therof). "



bla bla bla... .



He has presented facts and asked for facts and instead receives bla bla bla...



I think its the Amsoil convertees that keep this thread going by responding with non facts while "they" confront Don, etal with accusations that HE has an agenda! They are the vendors and users that are trying to convince others or justify their use of an expensive, non-certified oil. This in an application where regular maintenance (including oil changes) with a dino oil such as Rotella, etc. will give you a 500,000 mile engine. I have talked to many owners that deliver RVs with 700,000 miles plus and not a one had Amsoil in the crankcase. You and I both know that the vast majority of the TDR people including the "converts" will never put even 200,000 miles on their trucks!



As Illflem said "Steve, I think Don is just trying to alert folks to Amsoil's deceptive sales tactics. The people that cause these threads to go on and on are the sellers of Amsoil looking at their bottom line. I commend Don on his persistence in alerting everyone to this problem. "



Gene

 

[rrausch]

I agree with Illflem and GSchlegel. It appears to me that Don is trying to post facts, and the story of his search for those facts. Let him!



Don sounds like a Persistent Individual, the kind of guy we need in this country and in this forum. I don't believe I've seen any personal attacks against others in his posts. While I have seen many attacks from the

"Amsoil side" against Don's character, his motives and his methods.



Before these posts started I was in the "Amsoil is OK" crowd. I have to say all the bashing Don's logic has received has convinced me that Amsoil MUST INDEED be a Cult, and if you don't bow down to the great god Amsoil, you will be treated as a Heretic.



Steve St. L, Don has not said 125 times in 30 days that Amsoil has deceptive sales tactics. I think that is probably a mis-statement. I don't doubt the post total. But, GOOD FOR HIM! I believe we still have free speech in this Country.



The more irrational posts I read from from the people who push Amsoil, the less I want anything to do with the stuff.



"Let Justice Be Done, Though the Heavens Fall!"

 

['956Wheel]

Rifle,

You took my reply personel and that was not the intent, I know you are not selling the wonder oil. I post my feelings towards the salesmen that are pushing this stuff with little or just plain false info. , they know who they are. If their regular employment falls short of their needed income it is not the problem of the members here thus we should not have to be subjected to lofty stories and "pure horse pucky".



The reason, IMO, that A****l is critized so much is due to the fact that it is a high dollar oil that is backed up by nothing. I stopped wearing those #1 selling bluejeans when they put their price at $30 bucks, or more, a pair. Lets face it Rifle, most folks are getting tired of being taken for a ride when it is just not necessary.



Now, I urge you to not take this as personel... as it is not.



Mike (always '956wheel)



Edit, now I find you do sell it, back it with fact... find that 1/2 million mile Cummins with the stuff in it.



AMWAY, AMSOIL... . same thing $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$:-{}

 

[dalton4]

Steve,



I agree that Don M has made a lot of posts on this subject and has also used the word Amsoil many times (you reported 125 times in 30 days). And you may say that he has beaten the dead horse enough. Well, what about the other side? He may have posted more, but it was done many times in response to the Amsoil supporters.



Don has been the primary one in stating his point of view and asking the other side to show documented proof to support their claim. In doing so, using the word Amsoil is a given. Had he used the name brand X, snake oil, wonder oil or some other name, that probably would have been taken as an insult. He used the correct name for the oil and this is used against him.



I feel that Don was correct in bringing the API certification up and standing firm.



I have to sign off. I've used the "A" word three times and I don't even have an oil leak.



Steve and all have a nice day.



Jerry

 

[stevek]

Geez... is it me or was this thread aimed at stopping the bickering?

 

[Sled Puller]

Originally posted by Riflesmith

illflem,

Let me be direct; Bull. This thread has absolutely nothing to do with my bottom line. I have never made any money selling Amsoil, nor do I ever intend to. I have never tried to deceive anyone, ever, regarding this subject.



I, on the pro-Amsoil side have far fewer posts that the people who keep criticizing it. The pro-Amsoil posters combined don't add up to as many on this subject as DonM alone.



I suppose you would have us concede than DonM and those in his corner are right. Well speaking for myself I would..... if I believed he was correct.



IMHO there is no way an oil like Rotella will protect a turbocharged diesel engine as well as a high quality synthetic. The dino oils are much thicker during cold starts, resulting in more startup wear. This is a bigger factor than many of you are willing to admit since our trucks see far more starts/shutdowns than big rigs do. Coking of the oil in the turbo bearings is another issue where synthetics out-perform dino oils.



So dino oils are so superior to synthetics(note reference to multiple brands of synthetic oils)? Why don't they deliver superior iron numbers in head to head oil analysis with the same miles on the oil? This, along with other metal contaminants, is the best indication available of how a lubricant is protecting an engine, short of tearing it apart to see or waiting for 15 years of miles to accumulate.



You are correct that Don is very persistent. As discussed over and over, he is persistent in presenting his own opinions. I have yet to see any proof of any claims other than the lack of API certification. This lack does not concern me, all I want is superior products. If Amsoil chooses not to certify their oils that is their decision to make. Mine is what kind of oil I am going to use.

Ditto.



I see the bashers are out here in force, following the leader!



If you do not use the product in question, why are you posting?.



I have missed all these facts Rrausch insists have been posted.

I have read lots of Dons opinions and hearsay, but no facts.



Oh wait. One fact. An undisputed fact.



Some of Amsoil's products are not API Certified.

So don't use them.



In fact, I am STILL waiting for some links from him. I fear they won't be found, and I will never get to see what they really said.



Every time somebody posts "snake oil", or "wonder oil", that is a deliberate bash at an honest company and would not be tolerated about any other company on this forum.





956 WHeel?

Where are these salesman PUSHING Amsoil???

Do we read the same forum?

Somebody asks a question about Amsoil, Amsoil users and /or salesmen respond with factual answers.

And that is wrong HOW?



Then you bashers jump in with your mistruths.



On the other hand, if somebody asks about Rotella T, nobody comes in and tells them they should use Amsoil.



Once again, your double standards sicken me.

 

[dalton4]

Steve,



I agree that Don M has made a lot of posts on this subject and has also used the word Amsoil many times (you reported 125 times in 30 days). And you may say that he has beaten the dead horse enough. Well, what about the other side? He may have posted more, but it was done many times in response to the Amsoil supporters.



Don has been the primary one in stating his point of view and asking the other side to show documented proof to support their claim. In doing so, using the word Amsoil is a given. Had he used the name brand X, snake oil, wonder oil or some other name, that probably would have been taken as an insult. He used the correct name for the oil and this is used against him.



I feel that Don was correct in bringing the API certification up and standing firm.



I have to sign off. I've used the "A" word three times and I don't even have an oil leak.



Steve and all have a nice day.



Jerry

 

[Don M]

Steve,



I had to break down and work today. I just returned to read your post.



Not sure what to say to your post that others have not done already.

Unless you close this thread down like you did the last one I really doubt I will be shutting up any time soon about Amsoil and extended drain intervals that employ junk science to back up their validity.



I guess I need to tell ya that plenty of people are reading these threads to make them some of the most popular on the boards.

I get told to go away from more guys that just you on Amsoil.



Its no secret that I have had a bunch of support in this fight, so to speak. For every guy that posts in my favor I receive10-15 e-mails from others that decided not to post cuz they dont like the treatment Im getting. Who would? I dont like it.



Until I get some credentials from the salesmen and some engine testing data I am still gonna keep asking where it is.

Show me an API license, some engine performance data, some degrees or training in oil related fields and I will shut the heck up.



Until then... ... ... ... ... ... ...



Don~

 

[GLASMITHS]

amsoil

Don M has done a whole lot of good on this subject. It didn't take me very long to relize what his drift was. So, up front Ichanged the engine oil to Cummins Premium Blue, with a Fleetguard filter; yeasterday the UPS man brought my Redline for the transmission and Dana 80. :--) If the weather gets better next week all the SCAMOIL will be gone. I refere you to my posts on the"other" thread for the answer to that insult.



Oh yea, I spent my Santa money -- Smokindiesel provided an EdgeEZ and an AFE Mega Cannon air filter stuff. I couldn't believe I was in the same truck! My wife could, she was screaming to "let off it". It is great to own a new 4 year old truck. And when the new SPA GAUGES GET HERE

 

[Sled Puller]

Originally posted by Don M

Steve,

.

Unless you close this thread down like you did the last one I really doubt I will be shutting up any time soon about Amsoil and extended drain intervals that employ junk science to back up their validity.



Don~

Don,

Please get at least one of your facts straight before you post!



Steve was in Chicago covering the press intro of the '03's for the TDR membership when that thread was closed!





Robin closed that thread.



Just helping you get your facts straight once again, buddy!



Gene

 

[Briar Hopper]

Unless I'm mistaken, someone else posted that Redline is not API certified either. You're worried about your engine and driveline so much, that you're taking out a good oil, and then BOMB'ing the crap out of the engine? Does anyone else see the contradiction here in such actions?

 

[Don M]

Gene, you muffed up even the simple fact that Steve did close one of the big threads I started about Amsoil and the API. The same thread I was told by you to install the filter assembly the correct way.

Yes, Robin did close the last thread, but Steve closed the big one before that.

So, you should get your facts straight.



Now Im just helping you to get your facts straight too, Buddy.



Don~

 

[Don M]

Briar,



He is using the Red-line in the transmission and the rear axle. The API does not license axle lube or transmission fluid.

DC does not care what brand of fluid you use in the trans or axle as long as it meets the proper specs and has the correct viscosity.



So, there are no contradictions at all



Don~

 

[Briar Hopper]

Oh yes there are contradictions, Don. You objected to the Amsoil as not having API certification. Now Glasmith posts that he's using a different brand that isn't certified, and all of a sudden that is okay? Glasmith indicated that he is making this change because of what he has read that you have written in the forums. Also, if he is so worried about his engine, why is he BOMB'ing it? I'm sure we all agree that doing so will shorten engine life, no matter which oil you put in it. It can, and has shortened transmission life, getting the engine BOMB'ed. Lots of contradictions there, Don. One more thing, you stated that D-C does'nt care what you use in the transmission. Wrong-o. Just ask your hero Joe Donnelly . D-C specifies Castrol Syntorq, nothing else, in the 5 speeds, or else your warranty is voided on the transmission.

 

[Sled Puller]

Why Don, you are an avid Castrol Syntorq boy too.



You claim they care about that lube, come on now, quik, edit!







LOL!

 

[Sled Puller]

I like Don makeing fun of Amsoil's warranty, says it is no good because he claims it won't cover a BOMBed engiine!!!



Like Dodges warranty will!!!!



For cryin out loud!:-{}

 

[Don M]

Briar,



You did not even read his post did you? He said he is using Premium Blue in the engine. He is using Red-line in the trans and the axle.

Once again Briar you are wrongo.

Premium Blue is API licensed and the trans and rear axle oils do not get API licensed.



Once more, engine oils get the AI license. Transmission fluid s and oils do not. Neither do Axle lubes. You are an oil salesmen and should know this stuff.



Don~

 

[dalton4]

Hey guys, I'm sorry for the double post to Steve. I don't know what happened. I hit the submit button once and got a double.



Jerry

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

Don, you're right I did close that thread back on January 20th because I had received more requests from people to close it than any other thread in the past! I also posted this at the end of that thread:

Looks like this horse has been beat to death, revived, and then beat to death again several times over! I've received many requests to close this thread. If anyone wants to make further comments on this start a new thread and try to keep it on topic please.

You'll note that I invited the topic to be reopened there - not trying to bury anything. From what you've posted I'm receiving just as many requests to put a stop to this bickering as you are receiving cheering you on. For what it's worth I have nothing to gain or lose by allowing these threads to go on or to shut them down. I was trying to point out the points that I've received from many people in my above posts. Trying to remember all the posts on this recently I don't recall any of the Amsoil fans on here disagreeing with you pointing out that it isn't API certified - they've answered your questions, yet you still continue to hammer the point home.



I personally have run a VERY expensive (more expensive than Amsoil BTW) dino oil that is API certified in my truck for quite a while and had worse oil analysis numbers than friends that ran Amsoil in their trucks. I recently switched to Amsoil 15W40 in the engine (less than 2,000 miles ago) and I can tell you that if nothing else when I have to start the truck without it being plugged in that it cranks MUCH MUCH easier - you can tell the difference with your ear. I'll be keeping track of my oil analysis and I'll post my results once I have enough data to compare the two. BTW, even if I wasn't running Amsoil in my truck I would be making this post.



I avoided posting on these threads all this time because I don't like to get caught up in issues that are extremely emotional to people. It's obvious to me from all of your posts here and from your last one that you have a vendetta against Amsoil and that you will not be happy nor will you back down until noone mentions Amsoil in any way shape or form on the site again. All because it's not API certified - doesn't that seem like a little bit of overkill? You've hammered home your point at least 125 times in the last 30 days - I'm quite sure that EVERY single person that reads the forums here knows your take on the issue - do you need to continue it? I'm getting requests every day to stop the bickering over motor oils - how do you think I should handle that? There's two issues that become nearly like a religion on the TDR site - oils and automatic transmission's. MANY users have left the site and are threatening to leave the site because of the amount of emotion over these issues. How are we supposed to balance between the users that want us to shut this stuff down and kick people off and those that want no rules at all? It would make it SOOOOOO much easier if people would make their point and then let the issue lie rather than bringing it up time after time. I don't see any of the Amsoil proponents making posts pushing it on the site - if someone asks about it they answer their questions. The opposite is not true - currently if Amsoil is mentioned in any way shape or form then there will be a post from yourself or a couple of others EVERY time. How about this as a way to end this. Every time there is a post that mentions Amsoil in any way I will post this: "NOTE: Amsoil is not API certified, Amsoil Inc. states that it meets or exceeds API's specifications based on their own tests"?



I will not respond to this further because I refuse to get dragged into this fight - I am simply trying to voice the opinion of the many people that have emailed me as a moderator on the site.



-Steve

 

[Don M]

Gene,



I though Mr Smith was using automatic transmission fluid. Not manaul transmission oil. If he has a 5 speed I would suggest he used the factory called for Syn-Torq.



I feel that after the oil has been proven to run cooler and have the least amount of HP drag it is still the best oil we could use in our 5 speeds that I have seen so far.

BTW, the Castrol Syn-Torq is sitting here waiting for you to send me some Amsoil to test against it in a dyno run.



I was not making fun of Amsoils warranty. I just stated that the warranty was useless for the guy that modifies his truck. That seems to make up for more than half of the TDR guys.

So, for half of us the Asmoil warranty is no good.



Don~