My Banks nightmare story

[DPKetchum]

As I mentioned earlier there have also been cases of this on totaly stock motors also.

 

[PeterT]

Matt McDonald came into this forum to give his side of his story. Later he himself suggested that I respond as did others placing posts, so I did. I presented the facts as we know them and our position on the matter. I don’t expect everyone to agree with them, and I understand the difficulty of going through an engine failure, but Banks is not going to assume responsibility for failures that are not the fault of our product. If our product were to have caused a failure it would be a different story.



Mike R,

David Fredendall no longer works for our company and hasn’t for quite some time. Perhaps that is why you have not heard anything from him. If you would like to PM me your contact information, I would be happy to have someone else provide the information that you are looking for.



TBrennan,

I am not attempting to determine the actual cause of Mr. McDonald’s failure, I am simply pointing out that based on the information available, the Banks Six-Gun could not have been the cause of failure. We are aware of engine failures in STOCK form that are the result of improper piston clearance, but I cannot assume that that is what occurred in this case, that would simply be speculation.



qzilla,

Uneven temperatures between cylinders are the result of uneven airflow, not uneven fuel flow. I would expect you to know this considering that you also sell a product that adds fuel. Does yours not add fuel to all cylinders equally?

 

[mike r]

Pete, 3 and a half years is tooooooo loooooong for me to wait. Maybe he wized up. Uneven airflow? From a common manifold? From a single pressure source? I think another variable would be a pulsed injector. No, it couldn't be. Could it? The only other source of uneven airflow could be a cam with every lobe ground differently. Egad, we're onto something now. Someone has located the source of the failure. Oo.

 

[qzilla]

qzilla,

Uneven temperatures between cylinders are the result of uneven airflow, not uneven fuel flow. I would expect you to know this considering that you also sell a product that adds fuel. Does yours not add fuel to all cylinders equally?

My product only affects the fuel rail, not the fuel injector. The only way that anyone can control the amount of fuel that reaches the cylinder is if they in fact control the injector and they must also run a balance test while controlling them in order to make sure that they are indeed flowing a certain amount of cc's at a given time.



If the module does not do these things then the best it can do it provide equal rail pressure to each injector.



Now on the other hand if you can in fact control the amount of fuel into each cylinder, then you would be silly not to run less fuel in #5 and #6 because we all know that they run hotter than the other cylinders.



So if your product does fuel the cylinders eqaully then you simply had too much fuel for the load and your module did not back it down before it melted some pistons. It does not sound like this gentleman messed with any of the airflow improvements in a negative way either, so that should not have been worse than stock. If it were a timing issue then I do not believe it would have melted down unless the timing was retarded. IF the timing was retarded then it would not have been just the back cylinders ( you know the hottest ones). IF it was timing advance that caused it, typically it would have broken pistons due to detonation and it also would not have been picky about which cylinders it decided to break.



I would also be curious to see how you figure a truck with the timing that out of whack, either way, would even be drivable?



Thanks for the explanation and if I am wrong about fueling the cylinders please correct me.





Quad

 

[TCDiesel]

Quad,I have some Questions for you, which of the 6 holes on the 03 ISB is wastegated first and runs normally the hottest,and what degree does ambient Temp affect clyinder temp at sea level.

 

[BRayls]

Pete, 3 and a half years is tooooooo loooooong for me to wait. Maybe he wized up. Uneven airflow? From a common manifold? From a single pressure source? I think another variable would be a pulsed injector. No, it couldn't be. Could it? The only other source of uneven airflow could be a cam with every lobe ground differently. Egad, we're onto something now. Someone has located the source of the failure. Oo.

I will have to say you are wrong mike r,yes airflow can be uneven in a common manifold even under boost. just being under boost does not mean all ports get even flow. I would say yes qzilla is right if you were measuring the fuel flow to that extreme, however I think it is safe to say they should fuel the same givin' the same timing and duration events. which would leave the airflow shortage a very good possibility. now I am not taking sides on this, just taking and stating observations. uneven airflow could be a sharp shortside radius in the manifold or port.

 

[mike r]

Let me get this straight. I'm wrong on the theory of uneven cylinder pressures from a common plenum. OK, how then do engines pass durability testing from the manufacturer under known load conditions with such a severe deficiency between cylinders known to cause a failure that you seem to think are perfectly normal. I cannot believe that you think that a deficiency of that magnitude is normal. Deviation between cylinders? Yes, absolutely within a tolerance of 5% perhaps. The pressures in those cylinders would have to be 2-3 times higher than a cylinder operating at safe levels of pressure. Perhaps someone stuffed the manifold with cotton. Could happen I guess on Monday or Friday. This truck as it left the factory was not that far out of his GCWR and quite a few of these guys on here run at weights much higher than he was running. Perhaps you should warn the rest of them.

 

[TBrennan]

TBrennan,

I am not attempting to determine the actual cause of Mr. McDonald’s failure, I am simply pointing out that based on the information available, the Banks Six-Gun could not have been the cause of failure.

Peter, I hope on re-reading this you can see how contradictory this statement is. Unless the cause is known, you can't possibly declare it's not the Six-Gun, can you? Of course DC is probably taking the exact same stance. They have hundreds of thousands of vehicles in service with no problem, it can't possibly be there problem, therefore it must be the Six-Gun.

 

[TCDiesel]

What We Do know is that thier is no mention of turbo Damage,No indication of excess heat,No mention of lack of HP or Boost levels being low, or EGT would have been Higher, # 5 has a broken valve 4 & 6 are scored badly, Now if EGT"s were high the speed loader would have pick it up and set the tuner to Default levels {stock} this is supported because no exhaust or turbo damage is mention. when the event in 5 occurred the probability that it contaminated 4 & 6 is high,The Damage must have happen suddenly . How long before the ECM picks up the event in # 5 in a Low boost code or a injector problem, Also two Pryro"s did not pickup excess heat. What cause the Valve in # 5 to Brake ,Excessive heat would have certainly burned a hole in the piston first and the damage would have been contained thier only,If all three holes were running hot the two Pryro"s would have pickup on it. The speedloader would have put the tuner in default AND MAT WOULD HAVE FELT THE HP LOSS. or would have seen his post above 1000*. The ISB can dissipate heat quickly ,So when the event happen in # 5, the cylinders were running and being destroyed until it was to late. I think DC should RECIND the restriction and pay for Mat"s Claim.

 

[ChrisOlson]

Mike R,

qzilla,

Uneven temperatures between cylinders are the result of uneven airflow, not uneven fuel flow. I would expect you to know this considering that you also sell a product that adds fuel. Does yours not add fuel to all cylinders equally?

PeterT

I will disagree with the above statement. A diesel engine cylinder temp is dependent more on fuel than on air. the injector is designed to inject fuel at the exact time under exact pressure and closing at the exact time without fail any variables in this and the cylinder temp varies. As I said earlier in this thread. I personally think that the engine failure that started this thread was due to a failed valve in #5 cylinder, and not the fault of your banks kit, further more after reading your disclamier it always leaves a bad taste in my mouth when a company that sells a performance product will not back its product because it was used as a performance product.



thank you for reading and your interest

chris Olson

 

[hasselbach]

I'm disappointed to see such negative posts against Banks prior to all the facts being known, its almost like a witch hunt. Many of you are way out of line with your replies to Peter T. This is embarrassing to say the least.

 

[DPKetchum]

The STOCK trucks that blow torched a hole through a piston(one with 500 miles) was a faulty injector.

 

[Big MAK]

I think everyone has had a chance to get their view posted :-{} so I'm going to lock this up before there's six-gun shootout at high noon :-laf . Please feel free to open a new thread on "things that can cause an ISB to fail" or some such thing; because that's an interesting read.