My CB kills my motor????????

[testraub]

Been there done that

 

[CumminsBu]

Ain't that the truth... I've seen guys pushing over 300 watts out of Connex 4600s and it only make the seatbelt light flicker... it doesn't affect the way the truck runs... although, that's pretty funny... imagine doing that to SOMEONE ELSE'S truck that's sitting beside you!!

That's funny right there! Man if that guy was pulling a grade. Key the mic and bye bye.

 

[Troll]

You may be able to solve your problem by sheilding your radio or the affected boxes with copper screen. It will not transmit radio frequency and is a well known sheilding device. (try sitting in a copper screen box and use a cell phone, won't work).

 

[steved]

You may be able to solve your problem by sheilding your radio or the affected boxes with copper screen. It will not transmit radio frequency and is a well known sheilding device. (try sitting in a copper screen box and use a cell phone, won't work).

As long as said box is grounded... grounding is the key...



steved

 

[JHardwick]

Also how do you have your antennae hooked up? I have seen a lot of problems with antennaes. The worst ones are the magnetic style ones that go on the roof or bed rails. They can cause havoc on a lot of things.

Yup, it's magnet mount, on the roof.

Why don't you call us and get the board swapped to the later version that has some extra RF protection built into it?

I sent an email to technical before I posted here. Friday night. I assumed it would be Monday morning at the earliest before I got a response. I just figured if I had to spend a bunch of money on a new box, I'd be better off with a box that had no RF issues. I'm not posting to bust anybodies chops, I was just having trouble and fishing for answers.

We made several post months ago on several different sites telling people that if they had a CB issue we were happy to swap it out with a new board?

I haven't had the Quad long (EZ convert) and just put my CB in. I probably skipped that thread since it didn't pertain to me at that time.

I am not sure what the XM radio has to do with any of it? I have never heard of an XM causing any trouble for anyone.

No, you misunderstood. The XM, the CB, anything to keep your mind engaged while putting down 1000 miles a day. The XM has talk radio, news stations etc ... ... ... ... you can only listen to so much music.

Also just so you guys know with these CB's that have RF issues. This is going to affect an EGT gauge as well as other things you may add to your truck.

My EGT gage is not effected. It's a Hewitt I believe, or SW? It's rebadged for Enterprise Engine Performance here locally.

Try an antenna on the bumper.

Like I stated earlier, I haul horses all over the lower 48, plus Alaska and use a gooseneck. That limits my mounting locations.

Run the power from the driver's side battery.

As stated earlier, that's where I'm powered from.

Is that 40w from the CB itself, or is there a seperate heater?

From the CB itself.

The EMI filters built in the CBs are NOT designed to take the additional current to run heavier finals in the rigs. The coil(s) in the DC input filter will saturate with the additional current from bigger finals.

I bought this radio off Ebay and had a local dude go through it. He verified what I bought and tuned it a bit. I'll go back to him and see what he has to say.

Just wire your power thru the fuse box and all will fair well.

I've read a little before buying my 1st CB, and read that direct battery power was the best?

TST and a Juice I know will work fine.

I've never been a fan of the TST, and I really like the simplicity of the Quad and use of my analog gages.

 

[BK]

Unless the input filter chokes are now 4x the size of what they were stock, they are probably still stock and saturating now.



Sorry missed the part about the goose neck.



The DC current is a huge factory in selecting the size of the core, usually powdered Iron, for a diff choke. If they weren't changed, and you went from a 4watt output, to 40w... the input filter wont handle that input current, and your power leads are radiating like all heck from the rf being conducted back on them.

Also at that power level the rf inside of the rig is much more, which now may call for a shielded input filter compartment. I haven't seen a CB that had a shielded input filter compartment,,, cause @ 4watts, just dont need to deal with re-radiation in the box.

The best beat would be a new line filter, rated for the input current, in a shielded box, bolted to the back of the rig. With no - or less than an inch of power leads or so between the rig and the emi filter. I bet there's a ton of RF being put back onto the terminals of the batteries. . even shielding the wires or the quad box may not solve it... I'll bet it's conducted thru the 12vdc lines, not radiated thru air.

I've got a few radio tickets to my name, but more so I spent years designing and integrating both mil and commercial telecom big and noisy SMPS (switch mode power supplies), and then integrating them into both RF and data systems.



To prove which is the primary problem , conducted or radiated... power the CB rig from another isolated (another car or ac-dc 12vps) , leave the radio in the truck... and try it. If it's all gone,,, it's conducted. . if it's still there somewhat, it's a bit of both. . of course if it's just as bad as ever... it's mostly radiated.



But I'm betting on the input line filter of the rig is not doing it's job. . it's supposed to keep the RF in the box and not let it get out via the 12vdc line.

With the increase of the input current, if there are even diff chokes in there, they are just pieces of wire now... core is saturated, and/or the re-radiation in the rig is soo bad... no matter what you do to the filter in the box it wont do it's job, it needs to be in a shielded compartment.



It's fine to do things to reduce the susceptibility of a device, but it's best to tame the source.

 

[JHardwick]

It's fine to do things to reduce the susceptibility of a device, but it's best to tame the source.

I agree. I'll take your recommendations back to this local cat on Monday.

 

[steved]

I highly doubt he is doing 40 watts dead key on a 29. Most likely it is similar to my old piece and doing about 8 watts dead key and swinging 40 watts (the reason the modulation changes the trucks running characteristics)... cb techs like to tell you that big number to make you feel better. Even with the galaxy finals, "connex board", and peaked out; mine only does 8 watts and swings 40. I was told by a good friend and cb shop owner that is about all a 29 will do without a super mod or the internal amplifier that replaces the OE speaker...



And hooking to the battery is the best bet... another thing I did to my radios is to run a separate ground from the body to the cb's chassis. Basically, I ran a short jumper from a screw in the body to one on the chassis. This helps on errant RF significantly... I don't know why the chassis wouldn't be grounded with the power supply, but sometimes they aren't. In my case, I'm mounted to plastic, so that might have been the culprit.



steved

 

[BK]

I highly doubt he is doing 40 watts dead key on a 29. Most likely it is similar to my old piece and doing about 8 watts dead key and swinging 40 watts (the reason the modulation changes the trucks running characteristics)...

No matter when the 40 watts occurs, it's 40 watts. . no magic. And for a CB thats a huge amount of input current due to it's lack of effeciency. They fit a cap be enough to source that peak current.

The power has to come from some where, and it's source is the 12vdc input power leads, the input current shoots up, overwhelms the input filter, supplies the power to the finals... and you have your 40watts of swing.

At that time the errent rf also makes it back out onto the dc power leads.

Fact is the original input filter was only designed to deal with 4watts. The role of the input filter is to keep alternator whine out, and rf in. The chokes and caps are designed for cost and to just marginally deal with 4watts, and it's associated input current. Chokes with a DC bias don't act like caps. . if a peak current is "only 10ms"... it will react to the peak current as it will for that 10ms. Except for heat... 10ms might as well be all day for that choke.

 

[JHardwick]

I highly doubt he is doing 40 watts dead key on a 29. Most likely it is similar to my old piece and doing about 8 watts dead key and swinging 40 watts

It actually dead keys 1w and 2w (adjusted with the dimmer switch) and swings to just a tad under 40w.

 

[qzilla]

Half of it is probably the magentic antennae.



Try taking the antennae of the roof and see if the problem quits. Just leave it un attched but hooked up.



You may want to go with a normal antennae, it seems the magnetic ones do something to the ground plane in the truck.

 

[Luken]

You want a cb. You want extra power. The easiest solution would be to get a box that produces more power and doesn't kill it.



I have pulled trailers all over the country in my dads truck with a tst with no cb issues...

 

[qzilla]

Throw a 40 watter in the cab and a magentic stick on antennae and let us all know how that works out.



The bottom line is that with poor RF filtering a powerful CB can be a destructive little device.

 

[Luken]

Throw a 40 watter in the cab and a magentic stick on antennae and let us all know how that works out.



The bottom line is that with poor RF filtering a powerful CB can be a destructive little device.

I don't know how many watts it is. It's my dads ole cobra from back in the day when he was a truck driver. We had a magnetic antenna on it until we noticed rust and now we mounted a 4 footer in the corner of the bed.

 

[JHardwick]

Half of it is probably the magentic antennae.



Try taking the antennae of the roof and see if the problem quits. Just leave it un attched but hooked up.



You may want to go with a normal antennae, it seems the magnetic ones do something to the ground plane in the truck.

I don't like the magnet mounts either, but with a 8 foot tall all aluminum gooseneck horse trailer, I am kinda limited. If I ever fall off the fence on an aluminum flat bed, I'll have a headache rack to mount the stick on.

 

[tmh1955]

If you are indeed running 40 watts from a CB, you are probably using some jury rigged/ illegal amp, therefore transmitting all kinds of spurs and such. No amount of grounding/bonding will fix that.



Get a amateur license. run up to a kilowatt, legally, mobile

 

[JHardwick]

Get a amateur license. run up to a kilowatt, legally, mobile

If the 40w messes with the Quad, do you think 100w will, 3500w? I checked back today with the dude who went through it ... ... ... . I bought it tuned up and he verified everything was up to snuff.



Again, this is not a slam on Quad. But he did say that the plastic box was a problem. If it was steel, or wrapped in aluminum duct tape and could be grounded, the problem would disperse.



I dunno, I like my Quad and so far like my Cobra, but they don't play well with each other :{

 

[BK]

If the 40w messes with the Quad, do you think 100w will, 3500w? I checked back today with the dude who went through it ... ... ... . I bought it tuned up and he verified everything was up to snuff.



Again, this is not a slam on Quad. But he did say that the plastic box was a problem. If it was steel, or wrapped in aluminum duct tape and could be grounded, the problem would disperse.



I dunno, I like my Quad and so far like my Cobra, but they don't play well with each other :{

I hear ya, again, in the real world there are standards products and sub components need to meet for susceptibility. . and then there's standards for how much crap the other items can produce.

For the commercial world its FCC 22, mil it's 461.

If all goes well, all play well together. As you say , Quad made changes to decrease their susceptibility. . but what if you get a new box from Quad and you still have problems, or problems with a new toy you install?



I know you went back to this guy, but sorry.

Even many technical folks dont understand emi filtering and magnetics.

I dont think your CB guru could even tell you what material should be use for a diff choke vs a common mode choke, never mind how and why to select the cross sectional area, or even how to wind one and why.

Shot me a pix of the inside of the rig, particulalry the area the 12vdc is entering. I'll be able to tell if anyone bothered to increase the line filtering.

Stock form they are only designed to deal with the current from developing 4w of output power. not 40.



I'll bet no attention was paid to the input filter. I have never heard a "tech" modifying rigs even discuss input filtering and modifying it. It seems they just have no idea. . they think it's there only to keep alternator whine out.



Again, if you don't want to bother with that, but want to prove it to yourself, power the rig from another freshly charge car battery sitting on the ground and not connected to your truck and see what happens. Remove any local grouds you put in at the rig.

I'm betting it's a conducted problem... the rf back onto the 12vdc bus.

 

[JHardwick]

I hear ya, again, in the real world there are standards products and sub components need to meet for susceptibility. . and then there's standards for how much crap the other items can produce.

For the commercial world its FCC 22, mil it's 461.

If all goes well, all play well together. As you say , Quad made changes to decrease their susceptibility. . but what if you get a new box from Quad and you still have problems, or problems with a new toy you install?



I know you went back to this guy, but sorry.

Even many technical folks dont understand emi filtering and magnetics.

I dont think your CB guru could even tell you what material should be use for a diff choke vs a common mode choke, never mind how and why to select the cross sectional area, or even how to wind one and why.

Shot me a pix of the inside of the rig, particulalry the area the 12vdc is entering. I'll be able to tell if anyone bothered to increase the line filtering.

Stock form they are only designed to deal with the current from developing 4w of output power. not 40.



I'll bet no attention was paid to the input filter. I have never heard a "tech" modifying rigs even discuss input filtering and modifying it. It seems they just have no idea. . they think it's there only to keep alternator whine out.



Again, if you don't want to bother with that, but want to prove it to yourself, power the rig from another freshly charge car battery sitting on the ground and not connected to your truck and see what happens. Remove any local grouds you put in at the rig.

I'm betting it's a conducted problem... the rf back onto the 12vdc bus.

I'll be in Maryland next week and carry plenty of cash

 

[tmh1955]

Radio

If the 40w messes with the Quad, do you think 100w will, 3500w? I checked back today with the dude who went through it ... ... ... . I bought it tuned up and he verified everything was up to snuff.



Again, this is not a slam on Quad. But he did say that the plastic box was a problem. If it was steel, or wrapped in aluminum duct tape and could be grounded, the problem would disperse.



I dunno, I like my Quad and so far like my Cobra, but they don't play well with each other :{

I Dunno. I run 2m/75cm ham rig at 60 watts and also 100w from a HF ham rig in my 2001 Ram 2500 Quad, Cummins with no problems. Antenna for the VHF stuff is just a door edge mount (not a whole lot of ground) and a Hustler resonator type vertical on the bumper with ground wire run to the frame for the HF. I have not seen so much as a hiccup.