2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission My steering sucks...

[BroncoMarc]

I've always had sloppy steering on my Dodge. I replaced the track bar with the Advance Auto lifetime warranty track bar last year and it helped for awhile, but the play came back. I replaced it again last month. It was a little better... for about 100 miles, then it was sloppy again.



I crawled under there while someone turned the wheel back and forth and the track bar was still good! It looks like most of my play is coming from the drag link rotating my tie rod up and down. It rotates the tie rod, then the wheels turn. This seems to add quite a bit of slop.



Is this common? Would replacing the tie rod ends help?



The parts store's computers say I should have an inverted Y steering setup (drag link goes from pitman arm to right knuckle, tie rod is from drag link to left knuckle). But I don't. . I've got the T steering setup (Tie rod goes from knuckle to knuckle, drag link goes from pitman arm to tie rod)



Would an inverted Y steering setup have less slop than a T setup?



Another option, if I want to get extreme, is to do the mod I'm in the progress of doing to my Early Bronco trail rig. I had the same problem with the drag link causing the tie rod to rotate. I'm changing over to a steering system with heim joints instead of tie rod ends. The drag link will go to the knuckle so it can't rotate the tie rod.

Here is the system I'm switching to on my Early Bronco : http://stonecrusher.classicbroncos.com/



I'm just a little hesitant of doing something like that on a 6700 pound truck that I'm normally driving at 65 or faster. The Bronco gets very little street use. . It's average speed is < 5 mph!



Are there other options??? Or should I just go with one of the factory setups?





While we're on topic of steering. . check out the last few pics on this page for a very innovative trail fix for a broken tie rod end:

http://www.broncomarc.com/bronco/trips/tellico1004.html

Mine is the tubular Bronco that resembles a John Deere

 

[dieselshu]

steering fix

One of the best improvements to the steering you can make is to install a DSS darins steering stabilizer, you can buy them thru Rip Rook of sourceautomotive as well as a few other vendors. Its very simple and easy to install and will make a extremely dramatic change to your steering for the price. You can buy directly from Darin but have to wait awhile because of customs. Here is there website steering stabilizer .





Dave

 

[PUMPERDUDE]

Definately change the worn tie rods. I was having trouble with my passengerside tire wearing and that was the cause. Check your ball joints also. Add the DSS as suggested earlier. It does help a good bit. Good luck.

 

[BroncoMarc]

I've had replys to add a DSS (Something I've been looking at already), change the tie rods and change the steering box. None of this really addresses my concern of the drag link causing the tie rod to rotate up and down. Does this happen to anyone else? Is this cause by worn tie rod ends? Would the inverted Y linkage contribute less play?

 

[gtobey]

Fix your steering...

I have had some slop in the front end of my '02 for a while, so I went back to my trusted friend at our local frame and alignment shop. That is all they do. While on the machine, he showed me that it was set up like recommended on the website Steering System Specs and that there was beginning to be some play in the ball joints. I could expect about 6 more months of use out of them. We spoke about the track bar and tie rod ends, and discussed Luke's Link and determined that those would be the way to go when I need to service them. Check out those links and you'll see... I plan to do them when the ball joints get replaced!



But the best thing right now was the DSS Steering Stabilizer, so I ordered one and proceded to install it. Neither my friend at the alignment shop nor I could explain what I found as I began the installation. You are to take a 1-5/16" socket and remove the original nut from the steering shaft which holds the pitman arm. It should be torqued to 185 lbs. ft. I got my 3/4" drive socket and breaker bar ready, but to my amazement, it was turning without major exertion on my part! It seems it had about 40-45 lbs. ft of torque from the factory! This allowed the pitman arm to move ever so slightly while driving, but we did not notice any movement in the pitman arm with someone inside the truck turning the wheel back and forth. And it wasn't enough to cause the steering wheel to be offset to one side or the other, it just required a lot of correction while driving, sort of like a Ford front end. I know our Dodges are better than that! In fact, the stripe of paint still was aligned with the shaft and nut and lock washer as if someone at the factory had checked it and painted that stripe on it... Go figure! Somebody forgot this one, or was "out-to-lunch" when it went by on the assembly line...



After the short installation time and DSS was on, man what a difference! I am sure some of the problem could be attributed to the loose nut on the steering shaft, but the rest of the improvement I give to the stabilizer bar and now the steering is feeling like it did when the truck was new!

This item was well worth the $$$. My guy at the alignment shop is purchasing them and installing them on trucks for folks now! He was impressed!



Hope you will find the same experience if you put one on your truck!

 

[muchsnow]

The y configuration has more inherent slop than the T does (more non serviceable links). You are saying that you have a straight center link from knuckle to knuckle and the relay rod goes from the pitman to the centerlink? That's the way my 77 cherokee was and between adjusting the steering box and keeping the rod ends greased, it always had nice steering (no slop, still steered like a JEEP, no sport just utility).

 

[muchsnow]

Your pics kind of indicate your steering box(leakage?) is failing (typical). Have someone check for the sector shaft cocking when you rock the steering wheel back and forth. That bottom bearing shot can cause alot of steering and tire problems. The shaft is not supposed to have side to side movement. Darins steering brace would alleviate this but don't install one on a bad box. Also make sure the steering box is tight to the frame. It's around a 100 foot pounds I think, without looking it up.

 

[muchsnow]

I can visualize what you are talking about, turning right rotates it down, left up. If you have a service manual check if there's specific orientation to the tierod ends when the suspension is assembled to limit this. The rotation would equate to slop. make sure if you adjust around on the links, dont leave it in a potential bind at some point of suspension travel. I'd cock the links to limit rotation then drive it to see if it offered any corrective action. Then try to figure out what to do about it.

 

[CRSmith]

My steering tightened up considerably after doing the TSB that dealt with the bearing preload and over center adjustment on the steering box. Do these first. Hey, they're free. Here's the link: http://dodgeram.info/tsb/1997/19-10-97.htm



My only advice is to get a legitimate spanner wrench as opposed to two 10/32 screws tack welded to a big nut, turned with a bigger crescent wrench.

 

[fox]

My 02 was hard to drive. My right camber was about 1 * neg and the right was 2 +. The tow -in was out about a 1/4 out.

I found the right top ball joint was off-set from the factory , rotated it till I got all the positive I could. Reset the tow to 1/8 in.



It now drives much better. I also added the DSS. It welped some also.

 

[muchsnow]

The parts store's computers say I should have an inverted Y steering setup (drag link goes from pitman arm to right knuckle, tie rod is from drag link to left knuckle). But I don't. . I've got the T steering setup (Tie rod goes from knuckle to knuckle, drag link goes from pitman arm to tie rod)



Would an inverted Y steering setup have less slop than a T setup?

>>>>>>>>>>>>

You have the HD steering available in 1999. The inverted T is more durable, stable, easier to inspect and maintain. This setup is retrofitable, however you have to ensure usage of the correct tie end of the relay rod @ the pitman arm. (use your year tie rod end) every thing else fits, better clearance at the diff. Mines a 2001 and I just switched it over. Rock solid steering now. I have the NAPA #s for this setup.

 

[jjohn]

The parts store's computers say I should have an inverted Y steering setup (drag link goes from pitman arm to right knuckle, tie rod is from drag link to left knuckle). But I don't. . I've got the T steering setup (Tie rod goes from knuckle to knuckle, drag link goes from pitman arm to tie rod)



Would an inverted Y steering setup have less slop than a T setup?

>>>>>>>>>>>>

You have the HD steering available in 1999. The inverted T is more durable, stable, easier to inspect and maintain. This setup is retrofitable, however you have to ensure usage of the correct tie end of the relay rod @ the pitman arm. (use your year tie rod end) every thing else fits, better clearence at the diff. Mines a 2001 and I just switched it over. Rock solid steering now. I have the NAPA #s for this setup.

Muchsnow

I would like those part numbers and gotcha's list please. Sounds good to me.

 

[muchsnow]

Dodge Ram Steering Retrofit

Muchsnow

I would like those part numbers and gotcha's list please. Sounds good to me.

The steering on my 2001 4wd 2500 is nearly perfect with this retrofit, adjustable track bar, steering box replaced, steering brace, edelbrock ias shocks, leveling kit, replaced oem brakes, and a good alignment (including thrust angle). Kind of a Cadillac ride on and off road (not what I was shooting for, just turned out way better then I expected).



The retrofit puts the centerlink back to a JEEP type configuration that was utilized for over 30 years..... go figure huh?



The NAPA #'s/components(MOOG) all have grease fittings, the TRW #'s probably do also, but I havn't inspected those. I paid the high price for the option of having parts ordered just to look at. Big tipper huh?



I've worked with a lot of equipment that some engineer needed to be tenderized for, this looks like another one.



Part numbers can be derived from Adobe Acrobat attachment attached.



You need to change the file extension from . txt to . zip after you right click and save as. You need to extract then open w/ adobe.



Sorry, the original file was 1k beyond allowed upload, and zip files are not part of what is allowed. Worst case, E-mail me and I'll send it to you.







Any questions?... ... . muchsnow@bellsouth.net



Hope this helps some folks out.



Les

 

[jjohn]

Thanks Les

Looks like a good project.

 

[dieselshu]

Muchsnow, pictures, got any pictures???? of the setup installed.



Thanks

Dave

 

[JTHosler]

I also have play in the steering, so my question is. Will this DSS stabilizer fit with push beam for a Boss Snowplow on the truck? Thanks in advance.

 

[BroncoMarc]

Do the napa tie rod and drag link ends have a lifetime warranty?

 

[muchsnow]

I also have play in the steering, so my question is. Will this DSS stabilizer fit with push beam for a Boss Snowplow on the truck? Thanks in advance.

Stabilizer crossbar fits at the mounting points for the swaybar w/ a boss that supports a self centering bearing assy that supports the steering box sector shaft on the bottom side of the pitman arm. If you have side to side movement of the sector shaft when rotated on it's axis this is a good mod. If you have excessive slop (1/4 inchish+) of the shaft, replace the steering gear first (my recomendation). The stabilizer pretty much maintains the same profile as the stabilizer bar (just aft of it). really shouldnt interfere w/a plow. Unit can be removed in about 15/20 minutes if it's an issue w/plow requirements.

 

[OTRPU]

Mine doesn't suck. . . but sure does growell/groan. Anybody make an aftermarket that has more or adjustabel power assist?



Cheers,

OTTRPU

 

[kparker]

For those of you that might be interested in heading towards the "extreme" concept BroncoMarc is doing to his Bronco, you should be aware of several annoying little problems you will encounter while attempting it on your Dodge. I too had a sloppy front end on my 96, and after weighing a few of the options, I chose to replace my Y-type factory steering with a burly, heim joint, DOM tubing, steering system from Bullet Proof Steering. The system consists of a drag link and tie rod built to measurements you take off your individual vehicle. The parts were impressive when delivered. Good quality stuff, no doubt.



Now for the problems:



(1) To install heim joints to your steering knuckles, you need to drill out your knuckles and pitman arm, to accomodate the 3/4" bolts. No turning back at this point, the taper is lost for OEM type tie rod ends.

(2) Usage of factory front sway bar is lost due to the new position of the drag link.

(3) Minor grinding of swaybar end-link mount was required to clear drag-link. This would not be a problem on later 2nd gen trucks, as the swaybar attachment is different than the earlier ones.

(4) You will need to come up with a different method of mounting your steering stabilizer.

(5) This is the tricky one. When mounting the drag-link atop the steering knuckle, you change the angle between your drag-link and your trackbar. No bueno. You have now introduced considerable bumpsteer into your Dodge steering that you are trying to "improve".



Solutions:



(1) What the hell, I knew this before I bought it. Break out the 1/2" drill and go for it. Try not to envision the many trips to the junkyard searching for "good" OEM stuff to replace the "good" stuff you are ruining.

(2) This is a great benefit to driving off-road, especially if you have the state of the art, Fox racing shocks supplied with a KORE suspension system. I do use a camper in the bed as well, and then the front of the truck rolls a little too much for any high speed cornering you might attempt with it. Ha ha. Without the top-heavy camper, it feels fine though.

(3) Out comes the 4" grinder and the safety glasses. Not too big of a deal.

(4) At this point I decided to go big and order a Fox steering stabilizer from KORE, and adapt it to my steering. I had to fabricate/weld a mount to the axle, so the stabilizer would mount like a 3rd gen Dodge does. A much better method.

(5) After driving a Dodge for a while that wanted to jerk the wheel out of my hands when going over minor bumps in the road, I decided to modify my attachment point. I then turned this system, into a T-type arrangement, by drilling a hole in the perfect location, welding in a precise sleeve, and shortening the drag-link accordingly. Instant gratification. Bump steer eliminated.



So. needless to say, it is a lot of work to make an aftermarket steering system perform as good as your OEM set-up. I can only hope that the longevity of the whole mess, outweighs the hassle of the install. Would I do it again? Probably not. But after solution(1) I was stuck with it. It now performs, and that is really all I care about. We will see what the next few years of torturing it in Baja brings.



Prior to the steering mods, I had already installed a DT track bar, DSS, and KORE suspension. The DT unit is ok. The DSS is a good idea and was noticeable. It was definitely not as much of a cure-all as I have read in several past posts. The KORE suspension was nothing short of phenominal though. I could go on for a while here, but since this is my first time ever posting anything on this site, I should take it easy on you guys and let you read somone else's ramblings.



I will try to attach a few pics here displaying the mis-alignment encountered with the trackbar and draglink.



Thanks for bearing with me here,

Keg



PS I need some help uploading the pics. It seems the files are too large. What's the trick?