New here and considering a diesel

[JFortner5]

Just to give a little update.

We took our first trip this past weekend. It was about an hour and a half away. With the weight distribution the truck seemed to handle the weight pretty good and I had no problems slowing down. I took it easy getting up to speed. The truck would hold in 5th gear at about 2500rpm at 60-65mph on flat ground. Any hill would drop it to 4th at about 3200. Bigger hills was down to 3rd and running about 4000. We averaged 7.5mpg. Overall it wasn’t terrible, but not very relaxing lol.

Sunday on the way home was pretty bad. We had a 20-30mph crosswind. It really slowed me down and I couldn’t use 5th gear on the flat parts. We got 6.3mpg on the return trip.

I think I’m going to go ahead and move forward with a diesel. I think the 6.0L would do fine towing a 9k boat or maybe car trailer or something but the camper is just too much drag for it. It does ok up to about 55mph but after that you can really feel it.

 

[AH64ID]

Just to give a little update.

We took our first trip this past weekend. It was about an hour and a half away. With the weight distribution the truck seemed to handle the weight pretty good and I had no problems slowing down. I took it easy getting up to speed. The truck would hold in 5th gear at about 2500rpm at 60-65mph on flat ground. Any hill would drop it to 4th at about 3200. Bigger hills was down to 3rd and running about 4000. We averaged 7.5mpg. Overall it wasn’t terrible, but not very relaxing lol.

Sunday on the way home was pretty bad. We had a 20-30mph crosswind. It really slowed me down and I couldn’t use 5th gear on the flat parts. We got 6.3mpg on the return trip.

I think I’m going to go ahead and move forward with a diesel. I think the 6.0L would do fine towing a 9k boat or maybe car trailer or something but the camper is just too much drag for it. It does ok up to about 55mph but after that you can really feel it.

View attachment 137035

Sounds about right for a gas engine.

You will need to have a substantial increase to your budget if you want to move to diesel and make it relaxing.

 

[Tuesdak]

Overall it wasn’t terrible, but not very relaxing lol.

How was the RV and camping itself? It's some work to deal with the RV itself vs. a hotel. Getting the RV to the campsite is really just a Truck Driving Job parading around as a Vacation Trip.

What you got will get you there and you haven't even hit peak torque RPM. You might consider just pouring the gasoline down it and ENJOYING revving it up now and then. The cost to trade the truck and what you need to spend on a Diesel pickup to not get a pile of junk needing an engine or something else expensive with missed RV trips because it's in the shop for say an engine:

After this camping season is further along you may have a better feel if the RV you have is going to work. You may want a smaller truck camper, a motorhome, 5th wheel, tent in the bed, or nothing at all. Why trade twice? And a 5th wheel is better off with a longbed should you want to go down that rabbit hole.

Maybe even ask a new friend from the campsite if you could ride along in one of their nice Diesel pickups while towing their rig and see if it's any less of a Truck Driving Job just because the tach sounds slower.

 

[JFortner5]

We had a really good time with the actual camping part. It took me about 30 minutes to set up once we got there. I have used my parents camper some in the past and had a little experience with getting everything connected so it wasn’t too big of a deal. We’re looking forward to the next trip here in a few weeks.

 

[Topzide]

@JFortner5, Glad you were able to get out there and enjoy nature! @Tuesdak hit it on the head with his post. There are many trade offs with different setups! Maybe put a few more trips "under" your belt and save up to invest in a truck and/or another camper. I think if you could find someone to ride with in a diesel truck towing their rig would be a great tool to help with the choices. Even see if you could find help with a bumper pull vs. 5th wheeler! For now, focus on getting out there and enjoying the family time!

 

[petersonj]

Head over to the local scales and know your truck with no trailer, full tank, you in the seat and if your super loaded with stuff inside account for that.

Then load up you trailer and get those weight.

That costs less then $20 and is super valuable info.

That goes for Gas or Diesel,

@Timd32 is right on, here. Weighing the rig before and after is a must for having a more relaxing and safer driving experience with either a gas or diesel truck. It will help you arrive at the correct tongue weight. You can then distribute the proper weight back to the front axle of the truck by adjusting spring bar tension of the weight distribution hitch.

A weight distribution hitch is an excellent addition, but only if it is distributing the weight properly.

I only bring this up because you did not mention whether or not you weighed your rig in this manner.

- John

 

[Tuesdak]

The truck would hold in 5th gear at about 2500rpm at 60-65mph on flat ground.

It really slowed me down and I couldn’t use 5th gear on the flat parts. We got 6.3mpg on the return trip ...

I commend you for staying within the limits of the RV tire speed rating.

5th gear for the conditions wasn't the proper gear choice. To maintain speed the engine needed to be closer to it's torque band and the automatic transmission programming shifted it to higher RPM to get there. Again a desire to lug the hell out of your engine is going to be more expensive when it overheats offhand from not enough water pump and fan RPM. As things get hotter in the combustion chamber from lugging things like timing have to be retarded and MPG suffers from that. This 6.0L engine needs RPM to work hard towing and it has high redline to work with.

When we hauled RV's commercially there was a limit for windspeed they wanted you to stay off the roads and sit around on your own dime without pay. We burned the extra fuel fighting the headwind and it payed off because the storm we outran flooded the area we left badly. Went from 12 MPG to 7.5 MPG from the high headwind. Winds can rip the roof off a poorly built new RV. They can also blow the RV and big rigs clean over. Being underwater from flooding is an insurance claim.

Couple of very good posts about MPG below by @slowmover . It's a number best used for entertainment value for RV's unless it comes off your bottom profit line: then it matters. Selling your gasoline pickup for a Diesel pickup for RV towing has a large cost in the tens of thousands. MPG difference for towing: are you towing enough miles for it to matter? I doubt it. The economy unloaded of the gasoline engine is close enough to Diesel that you spend your gas money on more expensive more often oil changes and fuel filters the Diesel needs. For awhile Diesel was over a buck a gal more than gasoline here. Don't kid yourself that the every few weeks RV camping is going to save you enough in MPG to pay the tens of thousands in cost to get a good Diesel pickup.

We could buy a tanker truck of Premium Gasoline for the amount of parts we put into a GM 1988 6.2 IDI diesel. The 1994 "Gutless" 454 Dad bought after it had a serious drinking problem. He just couldn't stand it's drinking problem and traded it on what turned out to be a Lemon. Repairs aside the trade didn't save ANY MONEY because the higher payment ate the fuel savings and then some. One of the dumbest trades he ever made because it ran without problems otherwise. I have told him ever since to "Shut UP and pour the gasoline down it!" when he mentions MPG of anything we have owned since. (Unless it was when we ran commercial for RV delivery and delivering auto parts. Then it mattered.)

Although I have seen the inside of a 5.9 Cummins and the $10,000 rebuild price tag plus another $5,000 injector cost it's an industrial Diesel engine vs. the Bean Counter Life Crippled Diesels Ford and GM make their customers suffer with. Look at the Odometers for used pickups. It's 250K+ miles all day long for Cummins and stupid expensive money. You simply don't see that many GM or Ford Diesels with odometers much over 250K and when you do it's simply rare. On the other hand no one wants a gasoline pickup with over 100K on it and the price shows...

https://www.turbodieselregister.com...r-travel-fill-ups-wisely.273563/#post-2712905

https://www.turbodieselregister.com/threads/towing-fuel-economy.270418/page-2#post-2660345

 

[endoscott]

There is also value in towing with a CTD vis-a-vis the feeling of safety. If you do your own maintenance you can save a lot of $$ but for sure it's still expensive. RAM trucks hold their value well so if JFortner5 got one and didn't love it, he can always sell it and get most or all of his $$ back. Personally I love towing with a diesel engine. I think JFortner5 is dying to get his hands on a nice used RAM. I would double that budget to $40,000 though. Work a 2nd job for a while or something to pay for it? My son has my old 2003 and it runs great and is a beast for towing with a manual. I never thought I would love an automatic but the Aisin in our 2014 rocks. If you get a new truck, post some pics.

 

[Cummins12V98]

My combo is 35k+ as shown. Between Bakersfield and Sacramento, CA on HWY 99 I get the best mileage. This trip North it was 10 mpg and another tank North of there was 9.2. If in the mountains it will be 8.5 or so and head winds will drop to 7 or so. These are hand calc and at 60 mph.

 

[Regcabguy]

That's probably wise.
Stay with that nice GM is smarter at that point.

I agree. Consider regearing it. You know what you have and regearing isn't that costly compared to the uncertainty of buying a used diesel.

 

[Regcabguy]

If you prefer a manual transmission, then I recommend that you get a manual transmission. The Cummins engine's high torque at low rpm makes a manual transmission easy to use. To get the load moving, smooth clutch engagement always occurs at idle - no throttle needed (this actually makes it easier for newcomers). No need to excessively rev the engine while up shifting gears. Even in city traffic, you can stay in a higher gear longer with varying traffic conditions, especially if you anticipate how the traffic is flowing. On the highway at speeds above 45 mph you will always be in 6th gear, even when towing.

I think that your wife would easily adapt to driving a Cummins diesel truck with a manual transmission for the small amount of time she would spend driving it. My wife has done so and so has my brother-in-law's wife (they own a 2003 with a 6 spd manual). I know of others, too.

Your budget constraints may put you back into purchasing an older 5.9 liter engine truck (2007 and older). Not an issue as they are quite capable, but the automatic transmission is only a 4 speed.

Since you are allowing lots of time for research and test drives before you purchase, I am sure that you will be happy with whatever you end up with.

- John

I drove a VW TDI 12 yrs ago after not having driving a stick for 20+ yrs. You couldn't stall that sucker even with a guy who hadn't shifting in a long time. I've stalled mine two times since '06.

 

[GSP7]

I could sell my '99 for more than I paid for it in 2004. It is also well maintained and very clean.

I recently almost bought a 6.0 gas chevy 4x4 truck , used very clean. Fuel mileage wouldnt be very good....I lucked out and found a another real clean CTD, a 2005, and bought it. Im glad, I found it, it gets way better fuel mileage than the gas chevy would have got, and more power

 

[Topzide]

Sometimes just looking around for a bit longer and not pulling the trigger on a find works out better in the long run! Glad you were able to pick up another great truck to enjoy! Maybe you'll be able to pass your '99 on to a deserving individual!

 

[GSP7]

...................... Maybe you'll be able to pass your '99 on to a deserving individual!

No !......... I'm not selling my '99 to anyone. Im keeping it !

.

.

 

[Regcabguy]

I could sell my '99 for more than I paid for it in 2004. It is also well maintained and very clean.

I recently almost bought a 6.0 gas chevy 4x4 truck , used very clean. Fuel mileage wouldnt be very good....I lucked out and found a another real clean CTD, a 2005, and bought it. Im glad, I found it, it gets way better fuel mileage than the gas chevy would have got, and more power

People are paying $30K for a 24v?

 

[Regcabguy]

People are paying $30K for a 24v?

 

[slowmover]

I commend you for staying within the limits of the RV tire speed rating.

5th gear for the conditions wasn't the proper gear choice. To maintain speed the engine needed to be closer to it's torque band and the automatic transmission programming shifted it to higher RPM to get there. Again a desire to lug the hell out of your engine is going to be more expensive when it overheats offhand from not enough water pump and fan RPM. As things get hotter in the combustion chamber from lugging things like timing have to be retarded and MPG suffers from that. This 6.0L engine needs RPM to work hard towing and it has high redline to work with.

When we hauled RV's commercially there was a limit for windspeed they wanted you to stay off the roads and sit around on your own dime without pay. We burned the extra fuel fighting the headwind and it payed off because the storm we outran flooded the area we left badly. Went from 12 MPG to 7.5 MPG from the high headwind. Winds can rip the roof off a poorly built new RV. They can also blow the RV and big rigs clean over. Being underwater from flooding is an insurance claim.

Couple of very good posts about MPG below by @slowmover . It's a number best used for entertainment value for RV's unless it comes off your bottom profit line: then it matters. Selling your gasoline pickup for a Diesel pickup for RV towing has a large cost in the tens of thousands. MPG difference for towing: are you towing enough miles for it to matter? I doubt it. The economy unloaded of the gasoline engine is close enough to Diesel that you spend your gas money on more expensive more often oil changes and fuel filters the Diesel needs. For awhile Diesel was over a buck a gal more than gasoline here. Don't kid yourself that the every few weeks RV camping is going to save you enough in MPG to pay the tens of thousands in cost to get a good Diesel pickup.

We could buy a tanker truck of Premium Gasoline for the amount of parts we put into a GM 1988 6.2 IDI diesel. The 1994 "Gutless" 454 Dad bought after it had a serious drinking problem. He just couldn't stand it's drinking problem and traded it on what turned out to be a Lemon. Repairs aside the trade didn't save ANY MONEY because the higher payment ate the fuel savings and then some. One of the dumbest trades he ever made because it ran without problems otherwise. I have told him ever since to "Shut UP and pour the gasoline down it!" when he mentions MPG of anything we have owned since. (Unless it was when we ran commercial for RV delivery and delivering auto parts. Then it mattered.)

Although I have seen the inside of a 5.9 Cummins and the $10,000 rebuild price tag plus another $5,000 injector cost it's an industrial Diesel engine vs. the Bean Counter Life Crippled Diesels Ford and GM make their customers suffer with. Look at the Odometers for used pickups. It's 250K+ miles all day long for Cummins and stupid expensive money. You simply don't see that many GM or Ford Diesels with odometers much over 250K and when you do it's simply rare. On the other hand no one wants a gasoline pickup with over 100K on it and the price shows...

https://www.turbodieselregister.com...r-travel-fill-ups-wisely.273563/#post-2712905

https://www.turbodieselregister.com/threads/towing-fuel-economy.270418/page-2#post-2660345

Towing MPG doesn’t matter very much so long as it’s 60% of solo same load & speed (Test). It’s the rest of the year which counts as important. Diesel hasn’t been economical since 2007 when it became more expensive than gasoline. That negates the price premium for the diesel engine, and, unless one is hooked to a 15k trailer weekly, the numbers won’t work.

O/D trans shows up circa 1980. I’d already traveled North America & Mexico behind big block gassers that ran just below peak torque all day: 2,700-3,100/RPM. And happy motors they were getting properly worked for about 200k miles. 20k or more of that the annual towing number.

Cars that saw 12-14/MPG solo at 62-64/MPH (no one ran the speed limit; too expensive for no savings in return ). 6-8/MPG towing at a normal 58-60/MPH (below aero penalty and inside ideal TQ range). The day was planned as: 300-miles or 3 o’clock.

One stopped for 17-19/gals fuel every two hours with a 23-gal tank. Oil consumption was considered normal at 500-miles/QT. (A hard day dropped that).

And we climbed mountain passes at WOT for long, long minutes and learned to make an EXACT 3-2/downshift to preserve speed. Might be at 25-MPH at the crest. Even lower sometimes.

Engine Power isn’t relevant. These trucks have always been overpowered.

What matters most then and now is brakes. The downslope is where bad things occur. The combination vehicle has a trailer ready to move faster than the TV on the downgrade. (Trailer disc brakes past best WD Hitch which is Hensley or ProPride).

Trailer disc brakes on Dexter Torflex axles plus Hensley-patent hitch is the path to success. A high center of gravity truck pulling a high center of gravity trailer (slide outs) is nowhere near the quality of road manners afforded by cars pulling low floor height TT from years ago (can still be done today). Especially if those TT were true aero design & construction.

A gasser is easier to live with. Period.
Incurs no towing penalty. The trailer design is the single significant decision.

.​

 

[Matt42]

Before I bought my 1996 Club Cab CTD, new, I was pulling a 19 foot TT with a 1983 full size Jeep Wagoneer. The Jeep had a 360 V8 and 3.31 gears, and a Torqueflyte 727 automatic. I had changed out the original Motorcraft 2 barrel carburetor and manifold to an AMC dual-plane 4 barrel manifold with a Motorcraft 4350. It had plenty of power for its size, and two gas tanks. I never could get the distributor advance right, so we had to use premium. Towing, we got 5 mpg with gusts to 6 mpg. If we got crosswinds or headwinds, I had to shift down to second. It was a handful to drive.

I bought the Dodge when diesel was much less costly than gasoline, and there was a tax credit on the truck. It also has two tanks, holding about 72 gallons. (It's a 5 speed with 3.73 gearing.) Fuel economy towing went up to over 16 mpg and it was difficult to tell that there was a trailer behind us. We upgraded to the 25 foot trailer and the fuel economy didn't change much, generally 14 to 16 mpg if I kept the RPM at 1600 to 2200. When my wife drives, it gets better mileage.

We still own the truck, with under 80K on the odometer. The asking prices around here for similar low-mileage trucks are insane. I'm restoring it now and working out who will get it in my Will. No kidding.

 

[NIsaacs]

Before I bought my 1996 Club Cab CTD, new, (It's a 5 speed with 3.73 gearing.)

1st and 2nd gen Dodges never had 3.73 gears. Most likely it is 3.55's D-80. Dodge switched to AAM in '03 and then used the 3.73.

The story back in the day is....Ford had an exclusive with Dana and 3.73 gears. This was way before internet, so we can't blame that

It could be a story the same guy spread about Ford owning Cummins....

 

[Matt42]

1st and 2nd gen Dodges never had 3.73 gears. Most likely it is 3.55's D-80. Dodge switched to AAM in '03 and then used the 3.73.

The story back in the day is....Ford had an exclusive with Dana and 3.73 gears. This was way before internet, so we can't blame that

It could be a story the same guy spread about Ford owning Cummins....

You're probably right, Nick. I'm going to have to go look at the axle. It would have been safer to say that it didn't come with 4.11 gears. So probably 3.55s as you wrote.