New Lockup Torque Converters

[carson6]

#1

As for now ... Go for #1 97 4x4 x-cab bank's power pac dunwrong tran's

 

[Snow man]

The new lockup convertor may be able to handle the power,but how are you going to use it for acceleration with high power,in any gear other than OD. The factory ECM on 2000 and newer,will let the truck shift wide open3rd to 4th in lockup,Im sorry,but at 4-500hp,I feel if the convertor holds,and the clutches all hold then some hards are going to break,the lock to lock shifting is very hard on parts. Anyone who ever had a mystery switch( I did in my 96),knows this. Bill K's TC by staying out of lockup,may lose a small amount of power,but the cushioning of the fluid coupling is whats keeping the rest of the transmission alive at high power levels. I do not claim to be a transmission expert,Bill K,or ATS can correct me if im wrong. From drivng with Bill's TC for awhile now,the feel in fluid coupling is not as lively as in lockup,the initial surge of accerlation is where the biggest difference in feel is,the truck in lockup instantly pulls,where as in fluid coupling it takes a few seconds to load the TC,once the TC is loaded up, the difference isnt that big,although due to design you cant lock Bill's TC up under load,no matter what,I tried.

 

[cullyguy]

After all of this, how did dramers post counter stay stuck on 18?

 

[Cumminpwr11]

I have really learned alot from this thread. But I must confess that I am really confused now. I was about to buy a dtt 91 and vb. but know I dont know. here is my deal.



I have a 1999 Dodge 4x4 lifted big on 42" tires. (its a so cal thing i guess. All I tow is my boat, and my toy hauler. heaviest is 10K)



My truck is bone stock. i want to do this



exhaust

turbo upgrade(undicided)

BHAF

propane 80-100hp kit

injectors (undicided)

PM3 or edge COmp (haven't decided yet, leaning on PM3)

anything else I find that I like.



But now I have to wait till I can figure out this transmission stuff I was after I decides that DTT was gonna work better than suncoast.



SO I need a yes or NO answer

IS this new TC better than DTT? OR at least in theory (since it hasnt been tested in the real world yet. )

 

[MCummings]

Originally posted by Cumminpwr11

SO I need a yes or NO answer

IS this new TC better than DTT? OR at least in theory (since it hasnt been tested in the real world yet. )

Here's the deal. You've got two (and more) different companies with two different philosiphies about torque converters.



The conventional way to think about a torque converter is to make the converter a "Low Stall" and then make a Strong clutch that has enough holding power to not slip,, even at very low RPM where Diesel's make a ton of torque,



Bill K's way of thinking about a Torque Converter is a little different, and yet the same. He makes his Torque converters "Low Stall" and rates them in %,, the 91% transfers all but 9% of the power. goes to the ground 100% of the time, and when in lockup 100% goes to the transmission.





The difference between Bill's Converters and other converters that use lockup for the majority of power transfer is longevity.



The shock loads that are put upon the transmission when the torque converter is locked up, and the transmission shifts to the next gear is to say "Large". The idea is simple enough, SOMETHING HAS TO GIVE, either the engine lugs down to the next gear, the tires slip, something slips in your transmission, or something breaks.



Bill's philosophy is simple, and yet unique to the transmission industry.

He makes his TC's as tight as possible (91% is extremely tight) and uses lock-up only for cruising and medium acceleration.

At WOT he makes his TC's un-lock. His philosophy,, SOMETHING HAS TO GIVE, when the transmission decides to shift and the Torque converter is NOT LOCKED-UP the torque converter's fluid coupling is what gives!! You don't have to worry about WOT shifts destroying any bands, clutches, input shafts, drive shafts, or anything else( although Stefan K. tells me that his tires will still spin into oblivion on the 1-2 shift @ WOT). His converters offer a "Buffer" so when the transmission shifts the thing that gives is the TC, not something that will cost you big $$$$ to fix, or leave you stranded somewhere.



Buy what you want, or buy what you need.

I drive a 5-speed manual transmission, and I still like DTT because of their outstanding Customer service and the "Tell it to you straight and true" philosophy when buying, fixing, or selling parts.



Anybody set me straight on any of the opinions and thoughts I have in this message, otherwise I am assuming I'm correct from what I have heard From Bill K. at the Texas Rally 2001.



MerrickNJr



P. S. 91% of 500HP is 455HP.

 

[MCummings]

Originally posted by Cumminpwr11

I have really learned alot from this thread. But I must confess that I am really confused now. I was about to buy a dtt 91 and vb. but know I dont know. here is my deal.



I have a 1999 Dodge 4x4 lifted big on 42" tires. (its a so cal thing i guess. All I tow is my boat, and my toy hauler. heaviest is 10K)



My truck is bone stock. i want to do this



exhaust

hx-40

Air cannon

propane 80-100hp kit

injectors (undicided)

PM3 or edge COmp (haven't decided yet, leaning on PM3)

anything else I find that I like.

Just a word of warning,,, The HX-40 is considered a "Time-Bomb". It WILL Break at sometime, sooner or later. Even the "Hybrid" HX-40's are known to be "huffed"



Start a new thread about HX-40's and see how many people like them, and how many people won't even put them in thier pick-up bed. If the only thing you do is tow, then it is a descent turbo,, but If you get on and off the gas alot, the compressor side and exhaust side WILL part ways.



BTW, You might want to check out the B. ig H. onkin' A. ir F. ilter (BHAF) or an Air Dam hood. (See if you can get ahold of KatDiesel (Eric) he's a mad BOMBer too LOL)



MerrickNJr



P. S. ABout injectors, Diesel Dynamic injectors are considered superior to other injectors, but BD's Injectors are a little smokier and a little more HP, and run a little hotter. (The HP is debatable)



BHAF picture link. . http://www.pbase.com/image/379084

 

[High Voltage]

Time out, need to get more BEER!! and a dog... .

 

[Archive]

Well I can throw another log on the fire. I just took my Dodge and Ford back down to SunCoast Torque Converters and had their new "TARANTULA" Stator put in both trucks. I loved the way the old torque converters preformed and didn't think they could make one any better but I have to say there is no comparison. It is my understanding that there will be three levels of performance you can choose from. Of course I had to have the most aggressive one for both trucks and Of course I have 100% lockup because I know that 100% of 500hp is 500hp. I know there are some new companies and products out in this field now and I would highly recommend calling Ron or Joe at SunCoast at 1-800-868-0053 and inquiring about this new revolutionary converter. Or check them out on the web at www.suncoastconverters.com



Before anyone starts taking offence to my post, I am not saying that other companies don't have good products or give good customer service. My opinion is that if you are happy with converter and transmission then you made the right choice, if you are looking to upgrade then at least do yourself the favor of checking around and comparing the differences in products.



Dennis

 

[Snow man]

Dperry,in your signature,200hp injectors? i didnt think they made them above a 130hp gain,wow those are shower nozzles!They must smoke nice. Do you let it lockup under wide open acceleration,and does it shift,locked up in 3rd,to 4th,like stock still. Is the new suncoast a steel stator or milled down stock stator?

 

[SlyBones]

I was not completely clear about MCummings so I thought I would try my own version. I am gonna separete two aspects of TC's. Lockup and stator design.



He is right in that the old technology of a few years back was to build a "low stall" TC. This had good torque multiplication at low RPM's, at the cost of sucking at high RPM's. So owners would get mistery switches use lockup to gain power transfer at the higher RPM's. But this had its price. Shifting into lockup at WOT and using lockup at the wrong time was causing its share of problems. -- In the end guys would shell out thousands to get this stuff and then only have it last a short time.



Along came the new technology. "Very Efficient" TC's with ratings like 89%, 91% and 93%. These TC's have good torque multiplication at all RPM's and transfer power tons better that the old designs did, at all RPM's. While this has low stall characteristics when doing WOT at a dead stop, I dont really think these are low stall TC's.



DTT makes theres out of steel, BD and ATS make theres out of CNC macnined aluminum. Dont know what SunCoast makes theres out of. -- Giving DPerry1 the benifit of the doubt here, and that SunCoast has finally gotten with the program. -- Anyways I think these 3 companies have accomplished the same goal of efficient fluid coupling.



Where I think they differ is in there approach to lockup.



DTT makes a strong lockup device. ( You only need to go and read Strick-9's sig and see his equipment and then read earlier in this thread about the condition of the lockup clutches when they cut the TC open. ) DTT does not shift into lockup at WOT. And DTT educates customers on when to use lockup and when not to. And how to get the most life out of the transmission.



ATS and BD have chosen to make strong lockup devices. However they choose to believe that they can use it any time they want and it will hold. And that shifting into lockup at WOT wont degrade the life of the transmission. We have yet to see if it will last.



My final note here is that I see where some people seem to think that because DTT does not promote something, or does not approve of doing certain things, this means that DTT cant handle it. ( my interpretation ). Well after many conversations with Bill I believe, its not that the transmission will just break and leave you on the side of the road. Its that you are degrading the life of your transmission. Someday it will leave you on the side of the road.



In the end for me this is what is about. A stock transmission in a stock truck gets average of about 100K of life. A stock transmission in a BOMBed truck, will last only 2K. ( personal experience ). How long will a BOMBed transmission last in a BOMBed truck?? Depends on how you treat it. -- I Dont care of you get DTT, ATS or BD. They have good stator designs and strong lockup devices. If you want you $2500-$3500 dollar transmission to give you 100K miles before it needs a rebuild, listen to Kondolays advice.



My opinion.

 

[Archive]

SnowMan,



Those injectors do smoke alot when the box is turn on. I am not sure of all of the specs on the new Stator. I do know it does lock up at WOT. I don't have the mystery switch so it locks up on its own and stays that way. I am not sure what material the new Stator is made out of, I did see it briefly and it looks like a bunch of sword blades ends sticking out of a metal ring. They wouldn't release very much info at that time about the specs. I can tell you what the ask me and I quote" Do you want to use all of the power you are making?" and "Do you trust us?" with answering yes to both they went to work and gave me exactly what they said they would do. If you call down there they may tell you more info now, I don't worry about the details now because I got just what I wanted. Sorry this is not more informative info, if you want, call down there and ask for Ron or Joe they can tell you more 1-800-868-0053.



Slybones,

I really appreciate you giving me the benefit of the doubt, but you are wrong in saying SunCoast finally got their act together, in this case it looks like they are surpassing everyone else by staying up with Technology and pushing forward in the field of trannies and torque converters. I have seen other companies converters and I have never seen one of this Magnitude, it doesn't look like it would even go in a transmission, it looks like you would use it out on the battle field to win a war



Dennis

 

[Bill Kondolay]

Lets just cut to the chase here, this entire thing is going to come down to a matter of trust.



Someone is lying here , I have always told people that you should not shift from locked to locked as parts will break. My competitors say the opposite. Who is lying?



I also say that lockup is the weakest link in the tc whether you have a 1 or a 10 disc lining. The more you abuse lockup the less life the tc will have.

Again my competitors say the opposite.



Approx. two months ago you and I had a discussion about the Suncoast torque converter where you told everyone how great it was. Now approx. 2 months later you have already had it replaced. How great was it now if there was no comparison then and there is no comparison now?



When you got that Suncoast TC two months ago they had to have already been building a new one which means yours was already obsolete when you got it. So its either you knew that or you didn’t .

If you knew, why did you tell the TDR members the one you got was the latest and greatest and to go there.



If you didn’t know then I hope that you got more than just a free upgrade as Ron & Joe armed you with just enough information to make you look foolish as you were promoting and fighting with me with an obsolete torque converter.



You are right it is about trust, at the end of the day it still comes down to who do you trust.



You know what I am really sick of is seeing all these tc companies using customers and customers money to talk big.



Why don’t they put up their own money.



I feel so disgusted at what has happened to these customers that were swayed by false numbers and claims made by guys like you Dennis and companies like Suncoast, these were nice hardworking people that PAID their money and now what. The $30 milled piece of junk they paid over $1200 for , what happens to them now, or are they still covered by the 2 year warranty that Suncoast claims they have.



Do these people have the same option as you did to take a little jaunt down to their friendly Suncoast dealer and for free get the converter they actually paid for. Remember Suncoast claimed the milled stator was 96% efficient. “ TRUST ME “ , is that what you said they told you.



See here is the bottom line, every single converter manufacture that sells to the Dodge & Ford market knew these milled stator converters were cheap , and in-efficient . But they were bringing in such huge dollars and the consumer TRUSTED them to be telling the truth that they were the best and that is why they were so costly. Trust was something that these manufactures bought with marketing by taking advantage of consumers lack of understanding of these tc’s and their functions, they did not earn it the old fashioned way, good product, good customer service, good honest warranty.



Dennis, please don’t talk about trust, while that has become somewhat of a dirty word in this TC industry , it still means something to me.

 

[Snow man]

I bought from Bill,and DTT,and I trust him,and I believe that by shifting lock to lock,at 500hp,parts are going to break,hard parts,expensive hard parts .

 

[Mark_Kendrick]

Trust

Bill,

Luckily I have a 6spd but lots of people trust you and if I need a TC for a Diesel I'll call you.

BUT, I NOTICED THAT dramer AND clint QUIT RESPONDING TO POSTS!!!!!!



This has totally destroyed any trust I might have had in them and their products.

If they're not worth defending then they're not worth buying.



JMHO



Mark



P. S. Hope you guys had a merry Christmas ans a Happy new year.

 

[Bob Wagner]

FWIW



Bill is Bill and not everyone will like Bills style.



But when the chips are down, you can always count on Bill



For Better or Worse, Bill's promise is good as gold.

 

[Archive]

Bill,



Glad to hear from you again. Sure doesn't take much to ruffle your feathers. At the mere mention of a competitors product you sure felt the need to type your fingers off. That was not my intention.



I am 100% satisfied with my 100% lock-up Converter on my both Ford and Dodge trucks. Your attempts at conveying this message are pure nonsense to say the least. When I heard of the new TARANTULA Stator from SunCoast call it what ever you want I had to have it. Putting power to these trucks is my business I do it EVERYDAY! We wanted to try it out and it is in one word AWESOME!! As far as getting it for free I don't operate in that manner, and I wouldn't say SunCoast could stay in business if they operated that way.



As a business owner I deal with alot of companies in this industry and I must say that Suncoast Converters is one of the many companies that I have enjoyed dealing with. Great people great products! Just like I prefer AFE Air Filters if I posted on a thread on this topic about my satisfaction with their products I would like to think that the owner of K&N Airfilters would not feel the need to discredit their competitor. This was not directed towards you or your company.



The TS Performance Dodge Truck has a saying on the tailgate that people see often, it says BYE NOW! This truck is driven everyday by my fiance. She brings in more business to the shop by other truck owners that attemp to dethrone her on the streets. So when there is a new product to try I am the lucky one because she says get it in the truck yesterday.



Speaking of different products I am looking to get some feed back on the Power Edge Comp box. I have been talking with Nowell Thomas and he says it is the way to go. I have never ran this box and was wanting to get some feed back on it. We offer it on our website but no one has ever bought one? Our big seller is the Blue Chip box or the PowerEdge EZ box. Both of which I have ran and do like.





Dennis

 

[DBR]

Blah, blah, blah

Wow, for 35 bucks, Bill sure does get a healthy return on his dollar in advertisement! What do I get for my 35 bucks? I remember, it’s to read his rhetoric (well, at least when it comes to T/C’s, that is)!

 

[Stefan Kondolay]

Dennis,



About ruffling his feathers it is easy to do. If most people got the phone calls that he gets each day about how they got ripped off from so and so and how they wished they had a manual transmission I'm sure that you would also get a feather or two ruffled. Living with him my entire life, I see how serious he takes his job, automatic transmissions are an obsession to him. He treats every customer as if they are family we talk about them over dinner, while watching a movie. Many people paint a picture that he is just some bully that figures he knows everything. I can tell you that is the furthest thing from the truth, he reads everyday and talks with different people in order to broaden his knowledge. I feel that this is probably what makes him get so emotional over posts that he knows that are technically flawed as he often gets the calls saying that it indeed didn't work. There are alot of people that rely on experts such as him to keep them from making the wrong purchase. Lets just think back a couple years ago where was the technology at in the diesel transmission industry, and where is it now, I'm not saying that he is the reason for the huge advance but i'm sure that he played some role in it.



DBR,



There is no amount of money that could pay for the time he spends helping customers many not even his own.



Some don't like him as DBR has stated and that's fine as he has never wanted this to be a popularity contest. At the end of the day if his customers are happy then that's what matters most to him. Everyone has to have some people that dislike them or they wouldn't be human.



I hope that people don't think that I'm making this post because I'm his son and he expects it of me. I am probably his biggest critic as I disagree with alot that he has to say about different subjects.



P. S. Dennis you sell the comp but have never tried it? What did your customers think? I feel that it's sweet. Is your dodge a 4x4, if so are you sled pulling in Muncie? I would like to see how my mildly bomb truck would compete against yours.

 

[DBR]

Stefan.

Stefan, I commend you on your reply; I don’t believe that anyone would expect any less from a son. I am also my father’s biggest critic and most of all, his fiercest supporter; it is a commendable trait of any good son or daughter. Your statement that I dislike your father is incorrect. What I dislike are the methods your father employs, as a vendor, to attack others on this board. I will be the first to agree that DTT products are of very high quality, possibly the best in the industry, but other vendors should have the opportunity to explain their products in an open forum.

 

[Cummins Corvette]

Hot dam this thread is fun!!



CAUTION

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USE ONLY UNDER CLOSE ADULT SUPERVISION

FOR OUTDOOR USE ONLY

PLACE ON HARD LEVEL SURFACE

DO NOT HOLD IN HAND

LIGHT FUSE AND GET AWAY