New Member, Needs Help!

[DonTX]

Thanks for the guidance

As usual, I am appreciative of the help, and confirmation of my suspicions. So what is next? I guess since it is so easy to do, I will increase the viscosity of the fuel to the pump. I think I will also make a one cyl pop test, leave the last injector out and see if it pops and sprays. Not quite the same as a full load on the starter, but might tell me something and the best I can do with what I have.

After that, I still have to pull the stop solenoid, just to eliminate it, then it is big buck time to play with the VE44. I understand that baby is so obsolete it may be better to upgrade to a newer pump even. Sure would have thought that expensive toy would have made it more than 40k miles though. I won't have much confidence in it even when I get it running I fear. .

 

[MMiller]

After that, I still have to pull the stop solenoid, just to eliminate it, then it is big buck time to play with the VE44. I understand that baby is so obsolete it may be better to upgrade to a newer pump even. Sure would have thought that expensive toy would have made it more than 40k miles though. I won't have much confidence in it even when I get it running I fear. .

Its a VE pump, different then the VP44 found on the 24 valve cummins engines. I don't think the VE is obsolete, parts are easy to come by, so don't be scared of it. Its been about 5 years ago, I had my ve pulled, repaired, ran on the test bench, and installed for about $500. The pump guy replaced all the worn parts in the pump for that money too. I know prices have went up since then, but still its not going to be bad.



Michael

 

[cojhl2]

Well I gotta have proof the injectors wont fix it Don, If this was a Roosa Master I may not be so sure. But a Bosch!!



Increasing the fuel viscosity is a temp fix right?



I had a Bosch pump rebuilt a few years back I dont remember it being so terribly expensive. (Van's Pump Service Cedar Rapids)



Im still a holdout,, waiting for the next installment this PM!

 

[1stgen4evr]

The pump is not obsolete. It is definitely repairable. It is also very reliable under most conditions. I have half a million miles on one. You have a special case. Not knowing how the engine has been used (and left sitting for long periods) it would be hard to say just what went wrong.



Yes, the heavier viscosity fuel is just a test. But I have used the test to good advantage on several occasions. My first experience with this was in the early 60s on a PSB4A Bosch which shares many similarities with the ve we use. This was a crawler engine that would not fire up with the starter but we could push start and get the cranking speed up to the point that it would run. Once running, it was fine all day.



If ether will crack it off, and then it runs ok, I am very suspicious of the plunger to barrel condition in the head on the pump.



James

 

[DonTX]

Now I feel Better!

Well, all of that was encouraging, helped my depression if nothing else!. I had spoke to only one pump supplier, they told me that "those old pumps aren't worth messing with, might could rebuild, but probably could not get the parts". When I put that thru my mind in translated to "Nobody we know has any knowledge of how to overhaul or work on them old things".

That don't sound so bad from you guys afterall, I had heard over $2000 from one post on the boards. I am willing to spend what it takes, but just cannot see throwing $2000 into a short life obsolete pump, that is prone to do the same thing all over again.

Another option was suggested by someone, running some "cleaner" thru this pump before giving up on it, what is the feelings about that? Anybody make an injector pump cleaner? How about Snake Oil, maybe that would work. :-laf

The fact of the matter is that it got from easy starting to non starting in a couple hundred miles. Sounds more like trash or something than wear to me. I am reading my VE manual, they have NO trouble shooting help in there for some reason, seems like there should be some checks or corrections that can be made without pulling the darned thing off and tearing it all apart. Maybe I am just grabbing for straws too.

 

[MMiller]

You could give it a healthy dose of Howe's Lubricant, or PowerService, to clean out/lubricate the pump. I'd dump a whole bottle in the filter setup you have and start it and let it run.



Michael

 

[DonTX]

Thanks MMiller, that was about exactly what I had in mind, maybe a little two stroke oil from the old chainsaw mix stockpile in there as well for more llube?

 

[MMiller]

I'm not one for advicating any "other" additives, such as ATF, 2 stroke oil, etc. Some guys do and have no problems. I have had to fill fuel filters to get gelled up engines running with Power Service and Howe's, so I would not worry about putting it in your filter and running it through. In school they advised us no to add ATF etc to fuel.



Michael

 

[DonTX]

Don't know if it was approved by Cat or not, but when changing fuel filters on my old 3406B Cat, 15W40 Rotella was always easier to use to fill the filter than diesel. Always did that, figured it gave a little extra lube. Never smoked or stumbled from it either.

 

[BushWakr - RIP]

... . told me that "those old pumps aren't worth messing with, might could rebuild, but probably could not get the parts". ... .

Hey, I just had a thought..... why don't you poke around in here and see if you can find the dyno sheet from "Stomp's " truck/dyno run... the one that says 600+ RWHP... drop that off at the shop and see what they think... ... not bad for an out of date piece of hardware...



Now that really is kinda wacky... . these pumps are all over the place from the water to the timber and on the highway... . Personally I think your instinct about 'not knowing how/what to do with it' is likely and, sadly, right... .



If you get a good Bosch certified shop to do the work for you you'll have a fully warranted pump... . you can even ask the shop to set it up using the upper end of all the "ranges" so you get a slightly tuned pump right from the start... . it won't a terror on the highway but it will be better than 'stock outta the box"...



pb... .

 

[DonTX]

I been shopping

I have been shopping VE44 overhaul shops this afternoon, wow what a range of stories and prices quoted! ALL of them however warned me of the possibility of not getting parts for it from Bosch. I have not found one yet that claims to be a Bosch place though, gotta keep looking. Another thread on this board gave me two places to shop as well. Sure don't like those people that tell me the price will run "as high as up around $2000" I had a severe heart attack last year, sure don't need that kind of talk! The common story is that the "front" of the pump is worn out, and is leaking past so bad it won't squirt when cranking, but will with more speed like at idle after the starting fluid squirt. Nobody has answers when I ask how it can be worn out in 40k of use, sucking thru THREE fuel filters!

The trouble with the one injector was that it was stuck open, it was a galled and scored barrel the guy said, they were able to unstick it on the bench. . That worries me, where did that trash come from, parts of the pump going downstream?

Oh well, another day, another dead cummins. I still think I will run some cleaner stuff thru the pump before pulling it off.

.

 

[Scot]

Don, Call Southwest Metrofuel in Ft Worth and talk to Stan. They are an authorized Bosch service center. I think it cost me ~$400 to rebuild mine in 2001. They will do you right.

 

[DonTX]

Thank you Scot, I will call them first thing in the morning.

 

[MMiller]

I have been shopping VE44 overhaul shops this afternoon, wow what a range of stories and prices quoted! .

Don, its just a VE, not a VE44. You might be confusing people at the pump shops because the 24 valve engines use a VP44, and this pump I have heard is not usually serviced by a pump shop. The VE should be easy to get fixed/refurbished by a good pump shop.



Michael

 

[cojhl2]

Waitaminit!!! We are all sounding like a bunch of Eeores here. We havent tried to start it yet with the injectors have we?



Then if it wont start its a no brainer just have that pump rebuilt!!



And you have still done things in the right order.



Im a bullheaded Kraut,, I think the injectors will fixit. Compression air in one injector of a distributor type pump could hoseem all up I think.



The one thing that is a little strange however,, Don just reminded us on one of the posts that this started to occur after running awhile. Hmmmm I might be like the joke with the little voice sending a guy to Las Vegas!!



Don dont worry about the $,, look at the education you are providing to all of us!!

 

[cojhl2]

Also to thickin up the fuel for a pump test why cantcha just pour motor oil in the Davco?



Wouldn't that work?

 

[Paychk]

Go here for a list of diesel injector service centers that are certified by the "Association of Diesel Specialists"



http://www.diesel.org/pubs/directory/us_service_member_list.htm

 

[JLEONARD]

I once cleaned out a VE pump on an old VW by running 100% Marvel Mystery oil thru it. Engine ran that stuff just like it was #2. . and it ran better afterward.

 

[DonTX]

Thanks Paychk, with that link I found a member place very close to home here in the Rio Grande Valley! Don't know if they are a Bosch certified or not, but it appears thay may well be.

Yes, with the DAVCO I have the instant easy capability of running motor oil, Marvel mystery oil, pump cleaner or whatever I want thru the pump. Someone once told me Marvel Mystery Oil is nothing but diesel fuel in a can, maybe that is why it ran so good? I am definitely going to do some mosquito fogging with it before I pull that pump.

Since my name that starts out SCHWA--I am also a stubborn kraut cojhl2. Something in me still says, hey, in 40 thousand miles, that pump don't need pulled and a complete rebuild! The rebuilder assured me that the open injector would not have an effect on starting, we will see, the Fed Ex truck should deliver them today. Since I found that close by pump rebuilder, I may just drive over there and let them bang on it with a hammer or whatever pump rebuilders do first.

 

[bgilbert]

Michael, you sure its not a VE44? I thought I read that. . reading material is in my office. . I'll have to check after breakfast:-laf. .



Don, pull that solenoid yet???