New Member, Needs Help!

[cojhl2]

Here is some thing maybe of interest,,



A: The fuel shutoff solenoid is actually two solenoids in one. One coil is very strong to pull the linkage open when you hit the starter to let fuel flow. This first coil produces lots of heat and is intended for short use. The second coil is smaller and has just enough power to hold the solenoid open for running. It does not build up heat like the stronger coil.



The stronger coil is wired in with the starter so when you hit the starter the fuel solenoid opens and the engine starts. When you let the key return to the run position only the second smaller coil is needed to hold the solenoid open.



When the worn starter contacts hang and stick closed the stronger first coil stays energized along with the starter. This causes heat buildup after a short time and can actually catch fire if the battery isn't disconnected quickly.

 

[DonTX]

VE 44 pumper

Well, after several dozen calls to some really dumb diesel people, I finally found someone that speaks Bosch VE 44, Southwest Metrofuel in Fort Worth. Their price is $379 labor, far better than any other so far, AND they are a Bosch distributor! They will sure get my business, fine people to speak with too. Most just want to exchange mine for a rebuilt for $1300 or better, I want MINE fixed if I have to go pump rebuild, not one that has a million miles on it that has been patched up for rebuild.

They cautioned me to be sure there is not a plugged screen on the banjo bolt or the inlet to the pump, apparently many had a strainer there. Kinda hard to get to, I will have to check that out. Sure got my attention after finding some trash laying on top of the final filter! Anybody got info on that tidbit? And yes BGilbert, the stop solenoid WILL get pulled before the pump.

 

[JLEONARD]

The fuel shutoff solenoid is actually two solenoid

Are you sure of this? I know the 2nd gen solenoid on the P pump has 2 coils (and two hot wires) but I thought our solenoids were only one coil... one hot wire.

Not meaning to digress too far, but now this is bugging me.

Jay



Edit... I believe Marvel is not just plain #2. . it has a couple of drops of your aforementioned snake oil and perhaps every batch is blessed by The Pastor??? :-laf

 

[LMcCary]

Where did the trash come from?

Past an old collasped filter, pouring contaminated fuel into new filters when installing them, not blowing out the lines when they are removed and reinstalled, etc. Not trying to lay blame, but these are some possibilites. Oh and one more thing, the pump will gall when there is not enough fuel present to cool and lubricate it.

 

[DonTX]

Certainly only one coil on my solenoid, I think back on this thread there is a photo of it. One hot wire, and another going over to something else, I forget now just where it goes.

I only wish I knew where the trash came from, sure has me bugged. It was laying on TOP of the third filter when I changed it. That would indicate it had come thru two other filters to get there, which is course is quite impossible. Possible is that someone that changed it last somehow screwed it on with trash laying there by an oversignt and mistake, and possible had other trash on it also which went to the pump (or pump screen). .

 

[cojhl2]

I got that two coil thing off a FAQ Somewhere. . Apparently it does not apply to our 1st gens!!



My pickup is in WA and Im in CO so I cannot go see all this stuff. Just gotta keep reading this thread.

 

[DonTX]

Well, got the rebuilt injectors today, put them in and cranked and cranked. Used some starting fluid finally to wind her up. Ran smoother at idle, did not burn my eyes and throat any more, and was a really smooth idle. Restarts with no aids (8 or 10 trys) were much better, shorter cranking than before (but still not instantly). I even let it sit for about 10 minutes and it started fairly well.

What I didn't tell you is that I filled the DAVCO with my secret Cummins Cranking Concoction of Marvel Mystery Oil, 30 wt motor oil, and PS Diesel cleaner stuff. The exact formula will remain secret pending patents. :-laf I think the only improvement in cranking is due to the increased viscosity of the fuel mix. I loaded the pump up with a strong tonic, gonna let it sit since I have other things to do for a day or two, one of which is to find one of the darned banjo bolts that go on the injectors, dropped it in the gravel, and I do believe it vaporized. .

Not sure what is next yet, tempted to run a hundred miles or so with cleaner in the diesel, hoping it might clear up some. . Probably just wishful thinking though, ultimately a rebuild on the VE44 is in order I reckon.

 

[cojhl2]

Well horsemanure!! I guess I bin wrong the whle durn time.



I dont think it will fix itself Don,, you may as well have the pump rebuilt. I am amazed that it could be at fault but what else is there.



The initial crank time could have bin becasue not primed, but subsequent starts should be almost instantaneous.



However all is not lost. . We learned of a way to check for a weak pump by increasing the fuel viscosity. That itself is a good bit on knowledge.



Also that makes the Davco unit a worthwhile investment too.



BTW how you getting by wo that Banjo bolt?

 

[bgilbert]

Those banjo bolts and gravel are not a good combination. A couple extra are a must anytime doing an injector job.

 

[WyattEarp]

Well Don sounds like your getting there, yeah i know about the gravel, bolts and stuff have do the damndest disappearing acts i have ever seen on gravel, i know a drop cloth would work but i never have one around when i need it LOL... Wish you the best on the engine and good luck, persistence pays off and well i know some have given you a hard time but your being persistent just may help one of us out one day... . Sounds like me, somethings just urk me until i get it figured out one way or another LOL

 

[1stgen4evr]

The banjo bolt didn't just disapear. It has been reincarnated as a coat hanger in your closet.



Give the special formula a chance to work. Stranger things have happened. But I am guessing that a new pump head is in order. When you get the patent on that Cummins concoction, I respectfully ask that you name it 1stgen formula J.



The fact is, when the pump goes south, it does it in short order. Where does the contamination come from? Who knows? These things will run forever most of the time but with experience on hundreds of engines, I can say --it happens. Just be sure that you don't contaminate a new pump. It would appear that you have all the right stuff to keep the fuel ultra clean but somewhere along the way --it happened.



You might consider the larger capacity head if you have to get one.



James

 

[DonTX]

I just made the runs minus the banjo bolt, it leaked very little actually and the gravel deserved it, was the front of the engine one. Gonna see if Dodge has one that size. I found out from the injector guy that I have a different size injectors than most, they used my size only for a short time, then changed the head to another size, cannot remember the mm he quoted. They were having some head cracking problems early on. My injectors are P/N 3909533.

I have learned the symptoms of a stuck injector at least so far, never had one of them before. I think in all fairness, what has happened is that the pump got some rust in it from sitting so much (only 40k miles in 18 years). When cranked up on the road, the rust probably moved around, some got into one injector and caused it to gall and stick. The rest is either in the pump causing the same type troubles there, and the pitting caused by the rust has made the head leak by, so much that when cranking you just don't get enough to the injectors. I will give the joy juice a couple of days to work, then off with the pump!

I had it bled enough. One thing I have gotten good at is bleeding this darned thing. Will be interesting to make the next cold start with the First Jen Juice in there with increased viscosity, then again later after it has run it all out and is back to diesel. :{

 

[JLEONARD]

The engine should fire on the first or second or maybe third piston compression.

Got a magnet? That will aide in your search for mr bojangles. . :-laf

 

[DonTX]

Yeah, I know, this thing has never started on less than about 15-20 compression strokes, except on starting fluid. Gotta fix that.

Do I have a magnet? Do I EVER have a magnet. If you have not been made aware of Neodymium Magnets, look them up, they are WAY superior to any magnet you have ever seen, I mean these things are like some sort of magic!. I got a couple of big ones stuck to the differential pan on another RV to catch pieces of a shot bearing in case there are any left in there. One is coming off and doing dirt duty in the gravel

 

[Paychk]

Did I miss it some where in all these posts? Did you ever pull the fuel solenoid & check the tip? The rubber is known to tear for some unknown reason and cause no shutdown problems, maybe in your case it is causing a hard start. Could be the tip is obstructing fuel flow until the engine spins fast enough ie shot of ether, to over come the restistance. It would be the last thing I'd check, prior to pulling the pump.

 

[DonTX]

That has been addressed numerous times. I have NOT yet pulled it for two reasons: 1. Because it is a total bear to get to for removal, I will have to take a lot of stuff off to get to it. and 2. Because when cranking, the fuel is going downstream in a big hurry as observed on the DAVCO. My understanding of the pump leads me to believe that if fuel is going thru the pump that fast, the shutoff must be wide open. I am not sure of this though, possibly when the solenoid is closed, it is just bypassing and running it on thru back to the tank. Anybody know? There would have to be some provision for when you turn the switch off, the pump and engine is still turning, and diesel just don't compress.

Banjo bolt is still in vaporous state of being. :-laf

 

[Paychk]

Easy way to check, pull the solenoid wire and turn it over, if the davco shows flow then it must be by passing through the overflow back to the tank. If it shows no or greatly reduced flow then I would think it safe to discount the solenoid.



I understand from the pictures the limited access of your application, but the way I think is: "what is less difficult? pulling the solenoid or the whole pump". Any way just trying to be of help.



Good luck with it.

 

[DonTX]

Yeah, good thought there, that is a good idea, thanks. What I am trying to do is eliminate in order so that I can pull all that crap to get to the stop solenoid, then if is not the solenoid and I have to pull the pump, that stuff will already be off and I won't have to do it twice. Meanwhile I will find that darned banjo bolt if I have to run the whole garage floor thru a sieve!

 

[Paychk]

Used to find lost bolts, on the flightline @ night, by laying a flashlight on the ground and turning it 360°, even the smallest part will cast a very long shadow in the beam of light.



PS This will only work on a smooth surface

 

[Srichards56]

hard starting

Don I remember haveing A problem with A Blue bird Tc 200 school bus. thats

lets see back in 1990 , what you are describing is the problem I was haveing

What it turned out to be was a bad connection in the ISB valve. what this

valve doze is advanc the injection pump. you can crank all you want but if

the fuel pump is not getting voltage from the ISB switch valve To The

electrical stud . if you have An ISB valve that is , the location of the valve was on the left side of the engine head it had a hard fuel line from the pump

to the ISB valve. how this works the fuel pressure from the pump Is plumbed

1/4 fuel line to the ISB valve its a pressure switch with 12Vt. power from ign switch running to A y in the wire one end to the shut down switch and the outher to the Isb valve (switch) power in connector at the outher end of the valve wyu hav power out of ISB to the back side of the pressure pump

look for the spade or stud connection that be the wire for the advance

check for a chaffed or split wire or bad connection

*Note haveing constent power to the advance switch (Bi passing the ISB)

switch would keep the pump advanced all the the time could damage the

engine over heating or outher. check your cummins manual about the ISB

valve. Stephen56