Competition Nitrous the "right" way....

[DennisPerry]

Nitrous kits are nothing new to the diesel world. We've been using them and selling them since 2001. All of our components are NX stuff. I believe we were the first to offer NX parts to the diesel market, from back in the days when Brain Havins was the PR guy.



Anyway, it's not rocket science - and not new, even though NX has finally started packaging their own kits.

Klockliear,



Agreed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[COMP461]

Serious question...



If liquid n2o boils in our atmosphere at -127*F. What are you atomizing... gas? How does one atomize a gas? Using the term atomize, meaning reduction of infinitesimal particles aka: liquid... wouldn't the proper term for doing the same to gas be distribution?



I just find it hard to believe that the entire nitrous line could remain below -127*F. all the way out to the tip of the nozzle.



And greg, i am not picking on you this time :-laf , i am truly curious.

In putting nitrous in a diesel its all about placement, and letting the cryogenic liquid adsorb the heat in the intake track, the nozzle has a patented design that better disperses the liquid and allows it to have the maximum surface area to achieves this in the shortest amount of time, remember the air is moving at and incredible rate of speed, four to six hundred MPH.



In nitrous systems its important to keep the nitrous a liquid until it exits the nozzle. Remember that even as nitrous boils at -127, which is at sea level and 29. 92 barometer, at 70 degrees, in other words a standard day, If you add pressure, of say 800 psi, it will remain a liquid; this is a critical part of the testing that goes on in the engineering department of a major nitrous manufactory.



There is more to nitrous then just acquiring a few solenoids, and relays, and sticking them in a box, and calling it a engineered system.

You have to do extensive R&D on the nozzle, and its effect on the disbursement , the solenoids, and their ability to flow with out turbulence, which causes the liquid to cavatate and go in to a gaseous state, thereby reducing the true amount of delivered product to the engine, and this also effects repeatability. This principle is critical to the entire nitrous delivery system, if you have any parts that cause the nitrous to become even partially a gas, before the nozzle, you are loosing a great deal of the effect of the nitrous.

 

[DRAG DIESEL]

In putting nitrous in a diesel its all about placement, and letting the cryogenic liquid adsorb the heat in the intake track, the nozzle has a patented design that better disperses the liquid and allows it to have the maximum surface area to achieves this in the shortest amount of time, remember the air is moving at and incredible rate of speed, four to six hundred MPH.



In nitrous systems its important to keep the nitrous a liquid until it exits the nozzle. Remember that even as nitrous boils at -127, which is at sea level and 29. 92 barometer, at 70 degrees, in other words a standard day, If you add pressure, of say 800 psi, it will remain a liquid; this is a critical part of the testing that goes on in the engineering department of a major nitrous manufactory.



There is more to nitrous then just acquiring a few solenoids, and relays, and sticking them in a box, and calling it a engineered system.

You have to do extensive R&D on the nozzle, and its effect on the disbursement , the solenoids, and their ability to flow with out turbulence, which causes the liquid to cavatate and go in to a gaseous state, thereby reducing the true amount of delivered product to the engine, and this also effects repeatability. This principle is critical to the entire nitrous delivery system, if you have any parts that cause the nitrous to become even partially a gas, before the nozzle, you are loosing a great deal of the effect of the nitrous.

But the heat coming out the discharge of your K31 is going to be hot while your spinning it 2x and 3x off the compressor map... so you still believe there is going to be liquid coming out of the fogger? I could see liquid n2o getting to the tip, if the line and all components were pre chilled (a whole bottle ran through and iced over like no tomorrow) and then immediately switched over for a fresh bottle. All the nitrous components have to pull the "cold" out, thus it vaporizing before it's gets to the nozzle. I would say that's what give you what you call atomization and I call distribution, is the n2o turning into gas... wanting the heck out of the line... just some thoughts. All in all no doubt... the gas is still COOOOOLD... and that is good. :-laf

 

[banshee]

In putting nitrous in a diesel its all about placement, and letting the cryogenic liquid adsorb the heat in the intake track,

I agree, and IMO your "advice" on nozzle placement is wrong. You seem to have missed my intentions in my post, but no matter who you have with you on the starting line won't change that fact. I have numerous dyno tests to back it up, too. I do run an NX nozzle and it works great for me. However, thanks to Dennis' insight, I picked up over 30 free HP just by changing the injection point of the N20.

 

[DRAG DIESEL]

each path is 125 of an inch.

Just saw this. .



Those solenoids you pictured are . 063 (edit: or . 093 cant tell from pic)solenoids so why would it matter that your orifice sizing is . 125" ?



Again not picking on you... valid question.

 

[COMP461]

they are . 093 that was what I scooped up when I was in Wichita Falls , they make a . 150 . the fogger is . 125 X4

 

[JHellmann]

Nitrous kits are nothing new to the diesel world. We've been using them and selling them since 2001. All of our components are NX stuff. I believe we were the first to offer NX parts to the diesel market, from back in the days when Brain Havins was the PR guy.



Anyway, it's not rocket science - and not new, even though NX has finally started packaging their own kits.

Exactly.....



COLDFUSIONNITROUS. NET

 

[Hohn]

Serious question...

If liquid n2o boils in our atmosphere at -127*F. What are you atomizing... gas? How does one atomize a gas? Using the term atomize, meaning reduction of infinitesimal particles aka: liquid... wouldn't the proper term for doing the same to gas be distribution?

I just find it hard to believe that the entire nitrous line could remain below -127*F. all the way out to the tip of the nozzle.

And greg, i am not picking on you this time :-laf , i am truly curious.

DD-- you are correct if you're talking about nitrous in the open air.

But you're actually dealing with a pressurized liquid.


Your nitrous bottle isn't colder than -127°, but it has LIQUID inside it, because of the pressure.

Once the nitrous flows through the nozzle, it's not pressurized anymore, and the rapid expansion has a cooling effect.


Just like an aerosal paint can gets cold when you use it, so it is with nitrous. That's also why there are nitrous bottle heaters, because as the nitrous flows, the bottle tends to get cold and pressure drops FAST. This makes it tough to be consistent.

It's all just basically Ideal Gas Law from high school chemistry.

jh

 

[Hohn]

I agree, and IMO your "advice" on nozzle placement is wrong. You seem to have missed my intentions in my post, but no matter who you have with you on the starting line won't change that fact. I have numerous dyno tests to back it up, too. I do run an NX nozzle and it works great for me. However, thanks to Dennis' insight, I picked up over 30 free HP just by changing the injection point of the N20.

Changing it from where to where?

 

[Turbo Thom]

So that's the reason a small torch is use on the bottle before a run?

 

[COMP461]

. Use a propane torch at most tracks and gets a quick trip to the gate. A good bottle heater is great; the benefit of a progressive is you can compensate for pressure drop with adding more jet, and ramping it in at the end of the run. On most street system, and even some of the milder race systems, the pressure drop in a 15 lbs bottle is not enough to worry about. The really extreme system if rules allow is a push system, using 4500 psi nitrogen regulated down to you desired bottle pressure, and pushed on top of the Nitrous. .

 

[banshee]

Changing it from where to where?

That's the question that testing on the dyno will answer

 

[COMP461]

I believe it is different for each application, and testing is need on race applications. In a street application, There are many things to conceder, and flow thru the entire system is critically important. You can add a few feet of line between you solenoid, and nozzle, and make a big difference in the way it huts and applies power, thereby changing the numbers on a chassis dyno. In the past before variable controllers and the modern world, we would have line up to 6 feet to slow down the hit of a stage, this would in effect bring in a stage like a variable controller, but it was inconsistent. These extremes were done on all out Pro Mods .

NX flows the entire system on one of the only wet nitrous blow benches in the world, and spend a great deal of engineering time working out every detail. But in any case the future is here

 

[John_P]

FWIW,..... I was at the "Dyno Day" at "Carolina Auto Masters" in Durham, N. C. back on 11-05-05 when "banshee" gained that extra H. P. and torque from the "modifications" to the nitrous system that Dennis Perry recommended to us! Regardless of what any of you think,. . IMO,..... Dennis Perry is one of the most knowledgeable guys in the diesel performance business when it comes to making power with nitrous!! I was introduced to him by David Dunbar at the DHRA Atlanta Event last year and in addition to being very knowledgeable, he is also one heck of a nice guy too! He recently has also helped Jeff Garmon make over 1000 H. P. with his DHRA Drag Truck and IMO that speaks for itself on what he can do! Also, his DHRA Drag Truck always seems to do very well at the events I have attended!



Dennis,..... my sincere thanks to you for taking the time you did to speak with me and for helping "banshee" get all that extra power he did!!



--------

John_P

 

[Hohn]

. Use a propane torch at most tracks and gets a quick trip to the gate.

With good reason. I don't want a fool like that killing someone because he's too cheap to by a bottle heater.

 

[RacinDuallie]

So that's the reason a small torch is use on the bottle before a run?

Is that how they're teaching y-all ?

Anybody that uses a torch, even a small propane torch, to increase the psi in the bottle is IMHO either inexperienced, or desperate, heck it's just plain stupid.

 

[Dockboy]

So that's the reason a small torch is use on the bottle before a run?

TT,



A torch works, but it's not too safe!!! You get the bottle too hot, and the pressure keeps rising, then... ... . BOOM!!!!!!!!! :--)



The warmer the bottle is, the higher the bottle pressure. For optimum results, you want the bottle pressure to be in the 900-1100 psi range. Anything under that, and you might as well not even run it.



Bottle heaters, or blankets, typically have either a Hi-Lo cut off thermostat that reads the physical bottle temperature, or an On-Off pressure switch. They turn the heater on when the temp/pres. is too low, and off when the temp/pres. is too high.

 

[TJSHOTROD]

That's the question that testing on the dyno will answer

So unlike Comp and others who share info on here you are just going to say go do your own testing when in fact some one just told you how to do it. Thanks for your helpful info



TJ

 

[csutton7]

TJ--great post---chris

 

[banshee]

Hey TJ and Chris,



Unlike your boy COMP, I pay for my dyno time out of my own pocket and spend a lot of time trying different things... not just the one hint I was helped with. So, yes, I am going to keep what I find during my own testing sessions to myself. Roll your eyes all you want, but I'm not here to spend my time and cash to help YOU out... figure it out on your own. Bottom line, COMP's recommendation on placement is BS.