2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission Not happy with new Borgeson Box

[KrisKringle]

I think I wrote this somewhere else, but someone posted in the other forum (engines and transmission) something that prompted me to write (maybe again) about my disappointment with the new Borgeson Steering box. Improvement, definitely, but not 100% of what I was expecting.



The link to the other thread is: https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?231152-Steering-Box.



I replaced the original box because 1. It was leaking, and 2. There was play I could not ,adjust' out... also every time I hit a bump, it would ,knock. '



Anyway, I have replaced everything in the front end (with Moog HD parts) excepting the Upper and Lower control arm bushings. (The look OK, and tire wear is even). However, although an improvement, and even with the Shaft replaced, there is still ,two-fingers' of play in the steering. Feedback through the wheel is great when turning, and the reduction in lock to lock is great (especially when trying to part, or turn around here in Germany ;-)) however, having had experience with Firm-Feel boxes in my other MoPar's, I was really expecting NO PLAY, and ,Road-Feel' at all times... even when driving straight ahead.



This is my first Borgeson Box, so I would be interested to hear from others who have also installed one.

 

[Bob4x4]

Lol. It will never drive like a rack and pinion. It's just a truck

 

[KrisKringle]

Lol. It will never drive like a rack and pinion. It's just a truck

Uh, I never had an Auto with rack and pinion... . however, many 'cuda's and Roadrunners with Firm-Feel box upgrades... Jonathan

 

[Bob4x4]

Add 2k to the front end of a cuda or rr see what happens

I did a lot of warranty work on those muscle cars, other than being nice in a straight line I was never impressed

 

[VolsFan]

I had a Borgeson in my 99 and I didnt think it was all that. Not bashing the product, I just like the redhead I put in my 01 a lot better. Now the redhead doesnt have the tighter turn ratio that the borgeson had, but the steering wheel feels a lot more firm, which is what I was after. Also, both trucks had same front end upgrades, so there is no differences there either.

 

[mpaulson]

I had one (two) in my truck, the first one leaked past the out put shaft after about 6 months and had lots of play. The first one also had all 8 bolts only finger tight. I noticed this while servicing the truck and happened to look up and notice that one of the bolts on the top of the box looked loose, and it was. All eight bolts were finger tight. Good quality control , NOT. Got another one on warrentee and in about 7 months it had about 2" of play at the wheel. All the other front end componants were brand new. I had enough and shelled out another $800 for the new Dodge box that is in the 2012 trucks and so far it's good. It's only been in for about a month. I have had the BD steering box stablizer on for all the boxes as well. I will never touch Borgson again.

 

[KrisKringle]

Add 2k to the front end of a cuda or rr see what happens

I did a lot of warranty work on those muscle cars, other than being nice in a straight line I was never impressed

Well, than I guess you never drove an AAR 'cuda (had one in college / sold it later to pay for college), or a T/A Challenger... they did curves a lot better than the 2nd gen... 2K? somehow, I do not think that is accurate. JK

 

[KrisKringle]

I had one (two) in my truck, the first one leaked past the out put shaft after about 6 months and had lots of play. The first one also had all 8 bolts only finger tight. I noticed this while servicing the truck and happened to look up and notice that one of the bolts on the top of the box looked loose, and it was. All eight bolts were finger tight. Good quality control , NOT. Got another one on warrentee and in about 7 months it had about 2" of play at the wheel. All the other front end componants were brand new. I had enough and shelled out another $800 for the new Dodge box that is in the 2012 trucks and so far it's good. It's only been in for about a month. I have had the BD steering box stablizer on for all the boxes as well. I will never touch Borgson again.

Great... unfortunately for me, it is a bit hard to make a ,warranty' claim... shipping is prohibitive... and it takes a long time. (see my sig).

 

[Bob4x4]

Well, than I guess you never drove an AAR 'cuda (had one in college / sold it later to pay for college), or a T/A Challenger... they did curves a lot better than the 2nd gen... 2K? somehow, I do not think that is accurate. JK

:-laf:-laf how can you compare a street legal race car to a 7klb diesel truck ??

 

[cerberusiam]

I had the same problems as mpaulson, leak out the shaft seal and bolts loose on the replacement. I guess I shall see how long it lasts but so far it is tight.

My steering is great for having worn out oversize tires. Much better than the stock box ever was and great road feel, if it lasts.

Tires will make a difference on how the truck handles for sure. Kris what size and rating are you running?

Control arm bushings will introduce vagueness especially on roads that are heavily crowned and not very smooth.

Moog BJ's are famous for memory steer in them and that is sometimes mistaken for looseness. Not the best choice on these trucks.

 

[KrisKringle]

:-laf:-laf how can you compare a street legal race car to a 7klb diesel truck ??

Actually, I was not making a comparison; I was referring to the handling of the AAR. When I wrote "2nd gen", I was referring to the 67-69 A-bodies, not Dodge Ram... My '68 cuda and'66 Hemi Satellite are really only "straight-line" cars, however, the AAR handled really well, and had brakes.

That said:
1. The steering boxes and suspension are of a similar design [as the Ram].
2. When I install a ,new' quick-ratio steering box, I do not expect to have any play in it.

Sure the truck weighs at least twice as much as a cuda. A 'cuda with an all iron Hemi over the front wheels will handle differently than one with a small block... however, the road feel and feedback through the wheel are not dependent on weight, but on the condition, set up and specifications of the steering components... Jonathan

 

[jessekai]

do you have a steering box brace on your truck? i found that helped the the loose feeling a lot. without it the truck was hard to keep in my lane when pulling my travel trailer and once i installed it she smartened right up now thats on a 4wd not to sure who the truck with the ifs are


oh wow just noticed the age on this post. i keep getting the oldies tonight

 

[KrisKringle]

Ironic...just solved the problem.

do you have a steering box brace on your truck? i found that helped the the loose feeling a lot. without it the truck was hard to keep in my lane when pulling my travel trailer and once i installed it she smartened right up now thats on a 4wd not to sure who the truck with the ifs are


oh wow just noticed the age on this post. i keep getting the oldies tonight

Thanks for bringing this post back to life. Ironically, I was working on the truck yesterday and found / fixed the problem. I tightened up the pre-load / lash screw on the top of the unit a quarter-turn. No more play, and a bit better road feel.

Not to high-jack my own thread, but I was changing the Clutch Master and Slave cylinder. (which took 30 minutes)...

 

[mtarcher1]

It sounds like you took up some slack and are less dissatified now. I recently has the bias ply tires on my stock trailer replaced with radials. It was a big decision for me but I bit the bullet and immedately regretted it. The trailer felt like it was all over the road. That might not be totally unexpected and I figured it'd take some time to get used to it. After a couple of weeks I decided it wasn't going to get any better so I went over the front end again looking for play. I generally pay attention to the steering and have done the standard improvements to keep it as tight as possible. Nonetheless, I noted some play in the steering box. I adjusted it out with the sector shaft adjustment and wow, I'm back to one handed steering again. Just goes to show that it can pay when you've got an issue to go back over what you assumed to be OK.