Guns, Bows, Shooting Sports, and Hunting Not welcome in Toys "R" Us

[AMink]

In Nevada, a private business can post "No Firearms" all they want. The only places that CCW is LEGALLY prohibited are listed in Nevada Statute. The only thing that Toys R Us could do here is ask you to leave and if you don't, you will be cited for trespassing. On the other hand, if you are truly carrying concealed, they will not know you have a firearm.



Toys r Us' response is truly typical and ill conceived. "For the safety of our customers"? I'm calling limp wristed BS on that statement.

 

[Grizzly]

icman95 ,



I don't agree with you. I wouldn't want my kid or grandkid in the same store with someone carrying a weapon. Kids are very near and dear to me whether their mine, yours or anyone else's.





Feel as offended as you want, thems the rules.



george

 

[HHhuntitall]

icman95 ,



I don't agree with you. I wouldn't want my kid or grandkid in the same store with someone carrying a weapon. Kids are very near and dear to me whether their mine, yours or anyone else's.





Feel as offended as you want, thems the rules.



george

It's your right, of course, to think how you want, but since we're putting our opinions on the table, how do you feel about law enforcement officers? I'd bet you don't take offense to them being in the presence of your children. Do you realize that CCW permit holders have to pass legal, mechanical operation, and accuracy requirements as stringent as law enforcement? If you fail, you don't get your license. As for statistics, more innocent bystanders are injured every year by law enforcement officers from thier stray bullets than are even shot in self-defense by legal CCW holders, nationwide. One reason being, if a CCW holder does have the need to actually use their firearm, it's usually not in a crowded place, while officers respond to such a wide variety of calls, many in residence areas. I think I can safely speak for a great majority of the people I know in thinking that children are sacred gifts, which must be protected at all costs. I think protecting them does not include keeping them away from firearms or weapons. Quite the opposite in my rule book. Knowledge is power, be it Judo or handgun proficiency. And that taught knowledge goes hand in hand with manners, honor, self-respect, and respect for others.



As a parting thought, I'd bet you would be surprised, if not horrified, to know how many people around you are actually carrying a firearm on or about their persons. It's ironic how so many people who advocate such strict firearm regulations are themselves protected by armed guards. All I am given to protect myself and my family is myself.



Something to ponder... ... . A man was once asked,"Do you own a gun because you feel inadequate?" His response,"I own a gun, not because I feel inadequate, but because, when facing three, four, even six armed thugs, standing between them and my family, I AM inadequate. "



God bless you and yours,

Casey

Former TCLEOSE certified officer

 

[Grizzly]

It's your right, of course, to think how you want, but since we're putting our opinions on the table, how do you feel about law enforcement officers? I'd bet you don't take offense to them being in the presence of your children. Do you realize that CCW permit holders have to pass legal, mechanical operation, and accuracy requirements as stringent as law enforcement? If you fail, you don't get your license. As for statistics, more innocent bystanders are injured every year by law enforcement officers from thier stray bullets than are even shot in self-defense by legal CCW holders, nationwide. One reason being, if a CCW holder does have the need to actually use their firearm, it's usually not in a crowded place, while officers respond to such a wide variety of calls, many in residence areas. I think I can safely speak for a great majority of the people I know in thinking that children are sacred gifts, which must be protected at all costs. I think protecting them does not include keeping them away from firearms or weapons. Quite the opposite in my rule book. Knowledge is power, be it Judo or handgun proficiency. And that taught knowledge goes hand in hand with manners, honor, self-respect, and respect for others.



As a parting thought, I'd bet you would be surprised, if not horrified, to know how many people around you are actually carrying a firearm on or about their persons. It's ironic how so many people who advocate such strict firearm regulations are themselves protected by armed guards. All I am given to protect myself and my family is myself.



Something to ponder... ... . A man was once asked,"Do you own a gun because you feel inadequate?" His response,"I own a gun, not because I feel inadequate, but because, when facing three, four, even six armed thugs, standing between them and my family, I AM inadequate. "



God bless you and yours,

Casey

Former TCLEOSE certified officer

I was a Military Police, so I do know what it's like to carry. I always keep a 38 in my truck or camper. I have nothing against carrying, just wouldn't do it in a church or around children.

 

[icman95]

Grizzly,



I am happy to hear your alternative viewpoint. As I said in my original post, I will respect someone's opinion even if it's different than mine. The ability and right to have a differring opinion is really the general point of this whole thread. That is the freedom- for the most part-to do or think as we please. What's right for someone may not be right for the next guy. As a matter of fact, my wife also has a carry permit and her own gun, along with access to any of mine, yet she very rarely carries. There are certain circumstances where she will, but they are few and far between. I've stopped trying to convince her to carry more often, as it does no good. If she is not comfortable doing it, then she may do more harm than good. When we go out together, she prefers that I am the one with a firearm. My point is that even in my house, there are two different views.



That being said, I was going to point out what Casey has already beaten me to. That is that you, your kids/grandkids, etc. , have more than likely been around people who are carrying concealed much more often than you realize. For example: The NRA estimates that there are roughly 80 million gun owners in this country. With a total population of roughly 300 million people, that puts the percentage of gun owners in this country at 26. 6%. In other words, about one quarter of all people you run into in a day are gun owners. Now we'll never know how many of them are or are not carrying at any given time, assuming concealed carry in all cases. Therefore, I'll go for the worst case scenario and say all of them are. So next time you go to the grocery store, mall, shopping center, bowling alley, movie theater, etc. look around at how many people are there and figure at least 25% of them have a weapon. I know one particular grocery store that gets about 3000 people revolving through it on a busy night. This means that about 750 people may have had weapons on them in the store at one time or another that day. I'm sure children follow their parents to the grocery store and many other places throughout the day without any bad issues or incidents regarding the average citizen carrying a concealed weapon. It happens all the time.



By the way, just to illustrate to everyone reading this, I'm glad that you carry a 38 in your truck as a means of protection, but I couldn't get away with that in my state. As we all know laws vary from state to state and in CT if you have a loaded firearm, it must be on your person. If you simply throw it in the glovebox, etc. it can be considered improper storage of a firearm, which is a crime here. I personally would be worried about it getting stolen if the car was broken into or the whole car itself stolen. About 3-4 weeks ago there was a piece in the local news that showed exactly that happened to someone here. The whole car was stolen with a loaded gun in it and the police spokesman who was interviewed mentioned looking into improper storage charges. Anyway, I'm getting a little off topic, but your post offered me a perfect example to show how things are different in different states.



One more thing to everyone- in my first post I mentioned contacting the NRA about this and I did. I sent them the same letter posted here. They responded to me today and I also sent them the Toys R Us reply. Here's the NRA response:



Thank you very much for contacting NRA-ILA and for sending this reply. These are

extremely valuable to our research efforts. Rest assured that with your help,

NRA-ILA will work to promote our pro-freedom agenda in Washington, D. C. , and in

state legislatures nationwide.



Again, thank you for sending this information and please do not hesitate to

share any of your thoughts or concerns in the future.





Sincerely,

Kyle C

NRA-ILA Grassroots Division



They also said in a separate email that they are getting their research department involved in this matter. Maybe they'll get the word out.

 

[SierraRam]

I would perfer my children not to be around sex offenders myself. A person carring a concealed weapon legally wouldn't bother me at all. What is the concern? Are you affraid someone will go postal? Just woondering.

 

[ChrisOlson]

icman95 ,

I don't agree with you. I wouldn't want my kid or grandkid in the same store with someone carrying a weapon. Kids are very near and dear to me whether their mine, yours or anyone else's.


Feel as offended as you want, thems the rules.

george

I was not a MP. and I too have grand daughters and All children are near and dear to me as well as MY Dear Wife That is Exactly. why I carry. I will walk away from any physcial confrotation. I would only pull my weapon if I truly had to protect my DW or my grand daughters. I am Always on DEFCON 6 when I am with my grandaughters. I am Big enough storng enough and ugly enough that most people leave me alone But One cannot reason with the crazys of this world. I and Mine will not be a victim of some crazy. my DW and I both carry and would defend us or our family without hesitation. Am I paranoid??
you tell me. look at the news. read a paper. heck just last week in a local town of 800 people named Hoonah Alaska a Crazy person shot and killed 2 police officers IN FRONT OF THEIR FAMILIES look it up in the news. how about the discovery channel thing? it could as easily be a toys R US, Am i paranoid probally not will I carry when I go to the Toys are US in anchorage AK while shopping with my grandaughters? yes I will. Do I act a fool while I carry NO. does not matter where I go I carry. and I will not wait for Law enforcement to save me. I wil save my self.

But now that I know how toys r us feel i will be redifining my toy shopping habits.

Have a great day

Chris

 

[BrianJ]

... For example: The NRA estimates that there are roughly 80 million gun owners in this country. With a total population of roughly 300 million people, that puts the percentage of gun owners in this country at 26. 6%. In other words, about one quarter of all people you run into in a day are gun owners.

The topic of this thread involves CONCEALED CARRY, not gun ownership. You can't use NHRA 'OWNERSHIP" estimates when discussing CC, as most gun owners don't have CCP's. From a quick stab at state databases, I come up with approximately 5. 2M CCP holders, a far cry from your estimate based on gun owners. There were a handful of states for which numbers are not available, so you could even double that to 10mm and have a much smaller population than the 80MM gun "owners" you are trying to compare to.



I guess I don't understand your stance on this, you say you understand their right to make their own policy on their property, yet is sure has your panties in a ruffle. As stated previously I have a CCWP and carry quite often, but I have no problem respecting private property owners rights. Quite frankly, the NHRA (and anyone else taking this stance) would be hypocritical if they feel they can INFRINGE on a private enterprises RIGHTS by taking issue with this, and would be no better than the buerocrats in DC that want to take away our gun rights. My personal belief is that if any type of business should have such a policy as prohibiting weapons, a store involving kids and familes sure fits the bill.



If you feel better using stats I will use that to defend their decision, in the best interestes of their continuing business success... assuming 10MM CCP holders out of 300MM general population, would you rather cater to 3% of your customer base or 97%?

 

[BrianJ]

Do you realize that CCW permit holders have to pass legal, mechanical operation, and accuracy requirements as stringent as law enforcement?

That sure as heck isn't true in my state. Colorado CCW state law doesn't even REQUIRE or have a provision for actual shooting/range time or accuracy. You do have to pass a written test that covers gun machanical operation and maintenance, safey, cartridge basics, and legal issues to get a class completion certificate, which is turned over to the county with the paperwork for the CCWP. That being said, most classes do have range time as part of the class.



There is no followup and nothing that says a CCW holder has to practice or keep proficient in gun operation or safety, unlike law enforcement.

 

[icman95]

Brian,



You may not believe this, but I'm going to agree with you- at least on some of it. I will agree that permit holders aren't as well trained as police. In my state, we shoot during the CCW class, but it's more just to do it, than it is for measuring accuracy, proficiency, etc. My neighbors over in Rhode Island, however, are required to shoot for accuracy and are scored on it before getting a permit. If memory serves, they even have to get certified based on a specific caliber and can then carry anything up to that size, but not bigger. As I have a friend who is going through the hiring process for police right now, I can see that it is much more involved than an average pistol class or permit process.



By the way-that most gun owners don't have CCW permits changes from state to state also. In CT every handgun purchase requires a permit, wether or not you intend to carry it. It wasn't always this way but the rules changed in 2001. Prior to that one could buy a handgun without a permit, but had to take it straight home and never use it outside of the home. If you wanted to move about with it, then you needed a permit. It changed in 2001 to require permits of everyone making a handgun purchase, no matter what. So in this case, yes, all (at least handgun) owners do have permits. To my north, Massachussetts has a few different levels of permits and they are required to purchase or possess any gun and even-get this-ammo. Possession of a single bullet without an FID (firearms id card) is a crime. So, again, there are situations where all owners do have permits, though I know it's not the majority.



I know that the numbers I used were up there. Exaggeration can be use to illustrate a point. I did say that I was using the worst case scenario, but really the important part is the general principle that I was trying to show. That is that there are millions of people licensed to carry and I'm sure that we all have been standing next to or near someone with a gun in their waistband without ever knowing it, and without a bad or dangerous incident.

I guess I don't understand your stance on this, you say you understand their right to make their own policy on their property, yet is sure has your panties in a ruffle.

It is their right to make policy on their own property. The same holds true of any property owner, wether a company or your neighbor, but it doesn't mean that I have to like it. Yes, it does get my panties in a ruffle, but so what. That is my perrogative. I'm sure there are people out there who don't agree with everything their neighbors do. The ability to have different opinions is what this country is all about.



As far as infringing upon the rights of Toys R Us-I don't see it. A quick lookup of the definition says:

to encroach upon in a way that violates law or the rights of another

I have not asked them to do anything that would violate any law or even any of their rights. As a matter of fact I said this:

In any event, I will gladly abide by your wishes by not bringing my firearm into your stores. I will also avoid bringing my money into your stores.

It would seem that I agreed to their terms for entry into their store. I will not bring my firearm in there. But that is simply because I will not go in at all. Either way, they get what they want-no firearms in the store- and I get what I want-boycotting their store. I DID ask them to reconsider their position, but that doesn't rise to the level of infringement.



For example, if you bought your truck at a dealership, did you pay sticker price? I hope not. If not, then you probably asked the dealer to reconsider his position on the price. You came to an agreement and he got your money. He didn't have to reconsider, but I'll bet that if he didn't, he wouldn't have gotten your money. This is the same in my case for Toys R Us. They don't have to reconsider their position, but if they don't they won't get my money.

 

[icman95]

I was in the neighborhood of a different Toys R Us store today and drove by just to see if they had the same sign that the other one did. They do. I know it's hard to see on my cell phone cam, but if you look closely the white sign just to the right of the door has a picture of a handgun in a circle with a line through it like a "No U-Turn" type of sign. This is the sign that started all this.

 

[SHobbs]

Ken,



Being in Texas as a CHL holder I can walk right by that sign. The ones to watch for here as I said are the 30. 06 signs and the red 51 signs. The red 51 indicates a business that derives 51% of it's business from alcohol sales for on site consumption such as a bar. Now they can ask you to leave and in such a case you should do what they ask and not stir up trouble.



Those little signs like you pictured popped up everywhere here when the CHL's started. The Texas State Rifle Association stepped in and helped to a certain degree and now most businesses have accepted the CHL's and started posting signs stating that the UNlicensed possession of a weapon is a felony and lists the punishment for the offence. These signs are just a welcome mat and they are seen just about everywhere now.

 

[Mikey-KE7LBB]

The most comfortable feeling I experienced was in 98' I was at a small gas station in the middle of nowhere Arizona on my way to Phoenix. A man had a large pistol in a shoulder holster proudly displaying it for anyone within a mile or so to see the black holster contrasted by a white t-shirt! Neither the store clerk, nor I had any worries that this man that was exercising his RIGHT would do any harm to the public!!

He was merely letting people know that it's not a good idea to try to harm him or anyone around him!

Displaying a firearm in that manor may make most of the sheeple in this country feel a bit uneasy, but most don't realize that he, or any of the thousands of people who carry concealed, may indeed save a life (or several) by neutralizing a situation in mere seconds when law enforcement can be several minutes or hours away!!

The town I live in for many years did not have a police officer within 40 miles!! Am I worried about crime?? No!! All of my neighbors are armed to the teeth and so am I!!

I personally respect the right of the owner to not allow me on their property for any reason they see fit... I just simply do business elsewhere and that is my choice to do so. I also let the owner or upper management know that I will not spend my money with them due to their policy violating my right to protect myself!

 

[Bob Cochran]

It has been legal in Arizona forever to carry an unconcealed weapon. It has always also been the right of private property owners not to allow it in there establishment and your right not to frequent that establishment as well. I guess we are used to it!! As to carrying concealed a just recently law was passed allowing everyone in the state to carry concealed no permit or training required.

My only concern is the ability to carry concealed and no training. Having said that, is it any different carrying concealed or unconcealed and not training for either. I honestly don't know and I doubt Arizona is any worse with accidental shooting and such. Just something to ponder but I will say this in any confrontation the first and most necessary action is the use of the item you was born with between your ears. Probably 99% of the time this resolves the situation positively.

I was in Wal-mart the other day and counted 5 people armed but not concealed. I also go to a restaurant run by a wonderful women and has excellent food and she does not allow firearms. Do I not go there, NO why should I. That is also my choice as I have a friend that won't because she will not allow firearms. Seems to me everyone is within their rights and not sure why this discussion is really being had.

It seems when the word "gun" in any context is used people go into high gear with almost fanatical views from both sides. With neither willing to compromise. I would like to propose as long as no individuals rights are being infringed on the subject be dropped.

Thanks for the notification about Toy's R Us it was good information. At that point it all should have been left without the passionate responses.

Ok off soap box everyone have a safe and nice day.

 

[MA2LA]

I have debates often on this issue. I am ex military and have a CCP and carry when ever possible. the main explanation i use to explain why is that i don't want to rely on the police to provide protection for me. I train often with all of my guns to makes sure I am capable of using them if the the time would come(and i hope i never have too aim a gun at a person) and all of these places that say no guns are the ones i want to carry the most because criminals don't care what the law says and they will do what they want where they want. The most frustrating thing for me is the worst places i have to go for work(Washington dc and MD) I cant carry and when i'm unloading thousands of dollars of tools and supplies at 3am and no one else is around its not a nice feeling. I know there are non gun friendly places here where I and i honestly don't know what they can do legally to me for carrying and i guess i need to find out. But for me botttom line is that its my legal right to do so and you never know when someone who doesnt value my life as much as i do decides to have a moment.

 

[The patriot]

I saw a "No weapons" type sign here (New jersey) yesterday of all places.

I believe it was a book store. In Freehold mall.

What gets me is there isnt even a CCW permit here in NJ.



What I personally dont like is, there are no gun magazines avaliable in most of the major book stores around here.

While that dont bother me, there ARE magazines prominently displayed that promote the use/growing of marijuana.

Guns are legal, pot isnt. WTF!?

 

[icman95]

Never thought about it in that way. Very good point. Perhaps emailing the bookstore company the way I did Toy R Us would help to point that out to them. I'm not expecting them to change their minds but every little bit helps. Maybe they'll pull those pot mags or at least put in some of the gun mags you want.