off road fuel

[Moe]

I guess I never heard of that version of **********. I should of said tea bag party!!!!!

 

[Mark31]

Bottom line: It is against the law. Road use tax is a fair tax: If you think the tax is wrong or too high, don't buy the fuel, ride on the highways. Buy an econo box, moped, bicycle, a horse, or walk. One is either a law abiding citizen or not. Choose.

 

[R.Taylor]

We had 5000 gallons of it from a huge 650kW back-up generator we de-installed from a factory that was closed down. I sold it to a friend who has twin diesel powered 80ft trawler for $0. 50 a gallon + free fish. Anyone need some fish?

 

[MJReynolds]

Any diesel engine can run on all three. I was at a cattle auction two years ago in southern missouri, the DOT showed up locked the gate to leave and dipped every truck, over 400 trucks. 42 trucks got busted. It was a five hundred dollar fine plus fifty dollars per gallon that was in the truck. ****ty deal to save 10 cents a gallon

Okay I'm no lawyer (engineer actually) but something seems really wrong here. By what right can the government search your vehicle without your permission? I don't think by buying diesel fuel that I automatically give the government permission to inspect my fuel. Maybe there is some fine print somewhere on the fuel pump but I doubt it. For them to search your vehicle they would need some probable cause and a warrant. If you just told them no what could they do? If a police officer stopped you he would not be able to search your vehicle without your permission. How can the DOT get by the limits the police have? I'm just wondering when I gave up my 4th amendment rights.



I agree though it's not worth the trouble for the cost savings.

 

[CDonaldson]

I agree with your premise MJReynolds, to me it does seem to amount to an illegal search. The FED DOT does have laws concerning 'fuel inspections', they have been doing them for years. I think if you refuse, they will red tag your truck, meaning it is to be parked, towed, and plates suspended until they get their test - or at least that's their threat to get you to allow them to test your fuel.



I have been waived into a couple of those DOT checks in the past couple of years. The go over your truck for all the safety stuff. When it came to the fuel question, I keep about a month's worth of fuel receipts in my truck, I also keep a mileage/maintenance/fuel log, so when they asked me about my fuel I produced the receipts, that satisfied them, no dip.



The fellow ahead of me got his factory tank dipped AND his in-bed tank dipped. I have seen them dip every diesel tank coming out of Mexico intothe US when I have been at the border crossing. Since I do not cross the border, I have not gone through that process.



I don't use the red fuel myself, not even in my Bobcat or tractors. I have a large tank on my place for my equipment, they give me a good discount on deliveries, fuel costs are lower than the red stuff at the pump,and they put in ULSD. When I am traveling I pay whatever the pump price is, rather NOT have any risk of the issues associated with off road fuel.



As I see it, the money/taxes go to the road constructions/repairs, I'd rather have better roads than save a buck. Too bad they can not seem to get the roads up to par with all that they take in as revenue.





CD

 

[pullya]

Hey MJ---If you ever get stopped and they(the Fed's)want to dip your truck, tell them you don't think they have the authority to do it without probably cause or a warrant and then let us know how that works out for you. I'm sure they will be glad to share all the information you need to answer your questions. Please let us know what you find out.

Jay

P. S. A police officer can search your vehicle w/o your permission or a warrant under certain circumstances.

 

[TomBrady]

I run on-road fuel in my tractors as well as my pickup. I keep receipts and apply for a tax credit at year end for the fuel used in the equipment. I get about 90% of the taxes paid, returned. I can then top off my truck as needed without worry of being dipped. (I've had it done before).

Tom

 

[jelag]

CD... when I was on the farm we kept a log by the fuel pumps and recorded all fuel pumped and into which vehicle it went into... . we later took as a deduction the fuel used in the off road stuff... got the related fuel taxes back... . you might consider that...

Jay... like I said above... we have several trucks that carry DOT #'s and I would hate to even suggest during one of those inspections to see proof they have the right... OTOH (on the other hand) I'm guessing that any commercial enforcement officer since he is also a state police officer has the right to inspect the fuel tank... I've always assumed that the average joe cop doesn't fully understand the implications of this test... he'd rather write you for a license plate light that is out during the day time... that sort of thing...

Just my thoughts. .

 

[Adventure Bob]

For the feds to dip your tank they dont need probable cause... Its called inspection for compliance and by consenting to use the publicly paid for highway, you have consented to inspection for compliance. Same reason trucks are stopped at the borders of each state. We have confused this and truned it into a revenue stream for the states. In Cali the CARB nazis have turned vehicle inspeciton into an artform reminiscent of a border corssing in a former soviet country.

 

[MJReynolds]

Hey MJ---If you ever get stopped and they(the Fed's)want to dip your truck, tell them you don't think they have the authority to do it without probably cause or a warrant and then let us know how that works out for you. I'm sure they will be glad to share all the information you need to answer your questions. Please let us know what you find out.

Jay

P. S. A police officer can search your vehicle w/o your permission or a warrant under certain circumstances.

I'll just let them check and be on my way if it ever happens since I don't have the dyed fuel and I wouldn't want to be bothered. Maybe it's different in other states but in CA I've never heard of anyone getting checked and I know about 8 guys that have been driving diesel pickups for the last 12 years. I also haven't seen a station around here that sells the dyed fuel. The only time I've seen it has been at my in-laws in Montana. Never saw anyone getting stopped there either but I only go there a couple of weeks out of the year.



As for the police the reality is there is a big difference in what they can do and what they'll try and tell you they can do. They figure you don't know any better and they can then say that you gave permission. The police can search parts of your vehicle where the driver can have easy access, to ensure the officers safety. This is perfectly reasonable but if he/she asks to look in your trunk you are perfectly within your rights to say no. They'll give you a line about keeping you there while they get a warrant but unless they have a good cause (not just because you were speeding) they won't get it. Also they really don't want to wait around with you for a few hours to get the warrant. They rely on you not knowing your rights or not caring and it works most of the time. I have a few police friends and they tell me they get people to agree to searches all the time by making it sound like they don't have a choice. When they find something, usually drugs, they bust them and if it ever comes up they say the asked and received permission for the search. Thankfully most criminals aren't very bright.

 

[HBarlow]

I've been quietly reading this thread and shaking my head with amazement at the suggestions for concealing red dye in off-road fuel or refusing to allow law enforcement officers to inspect fuel tanks.

I hope TDR members don't believe those theories and try following the suggestions.

Red dyed fuel cannot be dyed back to its normal color and telling federal or state road tax officers they can't dip your tank is like telling the IRS they can't audit your financial records. Good luck on that.

 

[jelag]

Mark in Lancaster...

All the truck stops have dyed fuel... if you get into one watch the drivers fill the truck with fuel and than turn on a dyed fuel pump and fill their refer fuel tank on the trailer with dyed fuel... I can't think of a card lock or truck stop I've been in, in CA that didn't have it. .

And its not uncommon to find a construction company filling a 200 or 300 gal tank in the back of a truck that they use for the equipment they use off road, just like the farmers. .

But guys. . I have to agree with Harvey... . I'm just not a bold and outward speaking as he is... . we'd never think twice about using it... now on the other hand if I had a CAT Dozier that used 120 gal a day moving dirt. . that would be another story...

 

[Wingate]

I had heard at one time that Texas has substancially increased the initial fine and the per gallon fines to try and discourage the use of off road. Almost every diesel pickup entering or leaving a drilling rig would test positive for dyed fuel... I think thats what has spurred them into increasing the fine amounts.

Maybe Harvey Barlow can do some searching around on the TxDOT sites and find the penalties. .

 

[CDonaldson]

CD... when I was on the farm we kept a log by the fuel pumps and recorded all fuel pumped and into which vehicle it went into... . we later took as a deduction the fuel used in the off road stuff... got the related fuel taxes back... . you might consider that...







Just my thoughts. .

Jim.



I try to use my farm tank exclusively for my Bobcat and tractor taking advantage of the related deduction you mentioned. On the occasional time that I have actually used some of that fuel for my truck, I note THAT amount and subtract it from my deduction amount. It is easy to stop in town and fuel up, get a receipt, and be on my way. I really believe that the fuel taxes need to be paid so there are funds that go into road repairs. I also keep track of any mileage I put on my truck that is 'business' related, a deduction is also available for that mileage. Being self-employed, EVERY deduction counts. I'd rather stay legal, report what IS legal,and not be bothered with the problems/hassles that go with all the other stuff that would get me into troubles.





CD

 

[CDonaldson]

I had heard at one time that Texas has substancially increased the initial fine and the per gallon fines to try and discourage the use of off road. Almost every diesel pickup entering or leaving a drilling rig would test positive for dyed fuel... I think thats what has spurred them into increasing the fine amounts.

Maybe Harvey Barlow can do some searching around on the TxDOT sites and find the penalties. .

As far as I know or have heard, the fines/penalties are set by the FED DOT and all the State DOT's do is use the fed numbers. I believe the FEDS get a portion of what's collected. Nothing like a kickback for doing nothing, eh?



CD

 

[MJReynolds]

Mark in Lancaster...



All the truck stops have dyed fuel... if you get into one watch the drivers fill the truck with fuel and than turn on a dyed fuel pump and fill their refer fuel tank on the trailer with dyed fuel... I can't think of a card lock or truck stop I've been in, in CA that didn't have it. .

Okay it's at the truck stops. I get my fuel at regular gas stations and that's why I haven't seen it. When I've seen it in Montana at gas stations near the interstate it's been a small town with farms. I don't remember the price difference but it wasn't enough to risk the potential fines. It may not sound like it but I'm a follow the rules, law abiding person. I would just like our public officials to do the same.

 

[RolandJ]

I say run what you want :-laf. Its not illegal till ur caught .

 

[JWadford]

just stay with highway fuel, i would only use red dye in an emergency. but to your question, red dye will not harm your truck.

 

[BIGNASTY]

red dye

There was a school bus company that used red dye in the buses that they had, and thought that just because the state or feds gave them a break to use red to drop little jimmie off at school meant that they could use the same fuel in their maint. trucks. They lost a company and people lost jobs some even went to jail so I think that the state or fed are pretty serious about not abusing red dye. Go ahead and let us know if Jimmy Hoffa is really in jail or is he in some football stadium:-laf:-laf

 

[jelag]

Red dyed fuel is not approved for any school bus... whoever thought they could use it was incorrect... they may have some tax exempt status based on state law and claim a rebate on taxes... but they still can't have their vehicles use this fuel...