Competition Omg!!!!! Twins Rock!!!!!!!!!!

[StakeMan]

Briar,



I don't see where Mark gave out any trade secrets, and I don't understand why this has you so upset. Can you please explain?

 

[Greg Boardman-RIP]

Originally posted by Briar Hopper



Of course I've done my share of slamming in the past, when it was well and truly deserved, when I got screwed, or when a friend did. Nobody likes scams, least of all me.

But slamming other trannies? No. I've had some snide comments, a little ankle-biting I'm guilty of, about the blown DTT at Maryland. But you'll never , ever get me to bad-mouth a DTT or a BD transmission. I have friends that are hammering on both, and they work.

I have done the same thing on here before too. If you want to call it ankle bitting, I'm a ankle bitter. I have flamed a time or two sometimes we get bothered from people going aginst what We think is right. I don't feel Mark has shared that much with us was my point. Nothing else.

 

[Mark_Kendrick]

I go play with the kids for a day and see what happens ....

I still have my preferences on products. I still strongly dislike Mitchell injectors and I am allowed to say so. I have first hand experience with them.



I have not knocked any of their other products. I haven't used them. The reason is they did not see the need to convince me that theirs were better. If they don't need my business that's fine. No flame here.



I have recieved numerous calls and emails from folks that want to build twins and want to reduce the fab work. GREAT!!! DIY twin builders. . the ones that nobody else will give the time of day to.



If you want a complete bolt on out of the box kit then call EE or HVAC. If you want advice, commments based on my recent experience and my theories on why things work. . pick up the phone and call me or type out an email. If you decide you need some help and I am capable of supplying it then I will try.



Otherwise read up and enjoy.



Are there any technical questions that I might help with now?



Later,

Mark

 

[Reb.B]

this is why i enjoy reading the TDR. Mark went ahead, did a project, let us know how it went, and is willing to help others out. The pics and the how too are half the battle. Mark didn't say his were the best out there, . . he just said that this is what he did, it works, more power to ya! I really appreciate Mark telling us all how it went and not just throwing out a couple hints to drag us all in like the horsepower crazy guys we all are. Ya know one more thing, ... look at guys like Piers and Joe D. , etc. Every time they can, they will help u out and give the advise to better your truck. Look at Piers' page and see tech pages, free for anybody to look at. These are the kind of people i want to do business with. Just my opinion, also i want applaud those of u out there who go out and try new things with your trucks and give us all the heads up, ... . thanx again, ... . Reb P. s. i'll do my best to let anybody know how my projects come together

 

[Briar Hopper]

Originally posted by StakeMan

Briar,



I don't see where Mark gave out any trade secrets, and I don't understand why this has you so upset. Can you please explain?

I'll answer your question, Stake, if you answer me this one first: Is it okay for a vendor to purchase a product from another vendor, and copy that product, selling several knock-offs, then tell others exactly what the key components are that go into that product?

Is it okay? Most of the people contributing to this thread seem to think so. It seems the common theme here is, "to heck with your morals, I don't care where you got it or how, just tell me how to do it cheap!"

There is fair competition, then there is technology piracy. It would be different if Mark had arrived at the turbo combination he is using, on his own. He was told which turbos would work. The person or persons who told him did not get that information through research and development, either.

It's one thing to get your turbo info from Pius Eberle of Bell Turbo, or Holset engineers. It's quite another to get your info from a vendor who bought and copied.

Rebsram: You mentioned Piers. Yes, Piers has been very helpful to us all. But he hasn't told us exactly what magic goes into his modified turbos. Stop and think why he has not told us ! Tell you what. I'll take apart the Piers Hx40 I have, and a stock Hx40, compare the differences, then post my findings on here, so everyone can do the same. Would that be the right thing to do?

I've got access to a B-1 turbo from Kurt Yardley. I also have access to an engineer that can look at it, and tell me exactly what components it's made from. Think I'd do that to Kurt? Poor Kurt, with all his hard work and research and development that benefitted us all... . should he do that work for free, only to see his secrets stolen and sold or publicized?

 

[Mark_Kendrick]

Briar,

I have politely tried to put this thread on track.



Frankly, SHUT UP!!!!!!!!! your arguement has been made, shot down and over ruled.



I have not gotten any info from any vendor on which turbo to use except for . . "What is a good 1300-1500 cfm turbo?"



I came up with this number by reading ALL of the 'HP' series books on turbocharging everything from motorcycles to big block chevys. You really should read the short chapter on diesel turbocharging and compund turbocharging. He states exactly how to size a charge relative to the secondary.



Where I get my info and what I do with it is none of your business. Your posts here are nothing but inflamatory and insulting.

 

[Arcticat]

No, Tom, knocking off somone elses product is definitely not cool, your right on that. But unfortunately that is the nature of a competitive marketplace. I never said it was ok, just said that that's the way it is . The best vendors I don't think are scared by it, they know that the cream rises to the top. Some of their competitors inadvertantly send business their way by turning out bad imitations of the original. I have bought several things in the past purely because of someone making the reccomendation to not buy the knock off they made the mistake of buying. I and most of the guys I know go out of our way to do business with the original, even if they are a little more expensive.

Originally posted by Briar Hopper

The person or persons who told him did not get that information through research and development, either.

Mark says that the people who told him was ATS. Is that the vendor who you are saying copyed EE's setup? That's the impression I got from your post. Please correct me if I'm off base on that assumption.

 

[R.E. Miller]

You know...

This is why I seldom bother to look at this website anymore. Fact: Trade secrets are just that, and are only found through R&D. Fact: R&D can be done by anyone with enough time, money, and brains. I don't see what is the threat here. LOOK at EE's trucks... . you cannot duplicate that kind of power by buying two turbos and hum dinging the things on the side of your 5. 9L followed by ton-o-fuel injectors. There is more going on there folks, and the Mitchell's and all others that have spent the time and energy to develop such HP deserve all rights to their "secrets". But if someone want's to post there way of doing things on here for a learning experiance, we should be happy and thankful, and not worry about the masses running out and building 1000hp 5. 9L's (although that would be real neat) I want to build my own set-up, engine, and truck. I might break and blow things up along the way, or only make 25HP, but the point is to say that I have done it. Even if someone comes out with a kit for cheap, why worry about it when you are already in the business? If you have an established business, the new guys should only be a blip on the radar.

Mark, thanks for trying to share FWIW.

Russell

 

[Mark_Kendrick]

Thanks Russell!



P. S. nice name . . R. Mark Kendrick

 

[Gizmo 007]

Hey Mark, just wanted to say keep up the good work! Thanks for all the help that you've given me! Seems like you're handling all of this very well.



I mean, come on guys. Can we have decent thread without a flame? Anyone that feels they should start something deserves a good #ad
. And that should go across the entire board. Not just this thread. The guy was nice enough to give us a foreshadowing of what he's doing, and his gains from it. He's done nothing wrong.

 

[Johnboy3]

EE and others still win...

LOOK at EE's trucks... . you cannot duplicate that kind of power by buying two turbos and hum dinging the things on the side of your 5. 9L followed by ton-o-fuel injectors.

Exactly! Sooner or later if you really want to make the big power, you will have to turn to the masters for the rest of the package.



The only thing that Mark has said here putting down anyone or anything is that he doesn't like EE injectors. There are a lot of possibilities that may have given him a bad experience from a bad injector to wrong setup/application. Saying that out right suck may be a little strong, but everyone is entitled to their opinion.



It would be a nice turn if this thread turned back into a thread about Mark's turbos instead of a bash fest.

 

[fest3er]

Re: EE and others still win...

Originally posted by Johnboy3
Exactly! Sooner or later if you really want to make the big power, you will have to turn to the masters for the rest of the package.

...

It would be a nice turn if this thread turned back into a thread about Mark's turbos instead of a bash fest.

So we'll turn it back there. Who did the masters turn to when there *were* no masters to teach them?

Did I simply pay $75 for another set of marginal OEM heater relays? No. Did I turn to 'the masters'? No. I researched, found a relay that looked like it would do the job, bought two, fabbed a mount and installed them. Them I make a PDF and made it available to anyone who wanted it.

Did I turn to 'the masters' for a mounting bracket for my dual-remote bypass filter? No. I think it is bad engineering to put that much dynamic load on a plastic battery case. Nor did I buy something premade. I designed my own and had a shop fab it for me. Again, I made the info freely available.

When I had a problem with my Abbott EPRA, did I junk it and buy something else? No. I investigated and found the problem to be poor crimp connections. In the process, I also found that the Abbott needs *one* resistor added so it can correct the VSS between the CAB and the PCM. Again, I made the modification info freely available.

Are these trade secrets? They would have been if I had wanted to be in the business of modifying Abbott boxes to work with 4WAL trucks, or sell replacement heater relay kits that are better than OEM, or sell mounting brackets as part of my Amsoil 'dealership'. Does someone else consider them to be trade secrets? I dunno. No one has said anything to me, so, if they *are* secrets, they're holding their cards close.

Has Mark released other folks' trade secrets? If he didn't know they were trade secrets, then he couldn't have. If he discovered those 'secrets' during his research and duplicated them, so much the better. It shows he can think for himself.

If he *did* know they were trade secrets, then he would have signed non-disclosures *before* becoming privvy to the secrets and would not have released the info (unless he owns nothing and has absolutely nothing to lose from legal action). If Mark had released trade secrets, I'm sure legal action would have been taken by now. Unless the 'secrets' are old new and obsolete and the owners no longer cared.

It sounds like Mark has done a decent job researching turbos and designing something that works pretty well. Kudos to him for his efforts and success (thus far). ANd I hope he keeps us posted on further developments.

Fest3er

 

[cmonroe]

Back to what this thread was intended for. Mark I'm not looking or expecting a huge horsepower gain from a set of twins. The things I'm looking for would be lower egt's while towing (not that they are a huge issue now). Less lag at low rpm roll ons and less smoke. And unlike some others I do not want to run over 70 lbs of boost. So in general I want the ultimate in drive ability. And I should add that I have really good drive ability now for a high horsepower truck! But you are familiar with my truck do you think I would be gaining enough to excuse the twins as drivable as my truck is now?

 

[Mark_Kendrick]

Craig,

Yes, I think they would kill some smoke but you're the only guy I know that spools an H2E/17 like a HX35/14 on the street



the 35 on top makes this setup lightninh fast and the HT3B flows 40+% more than your current setup. So you should see a pretty good HP gain to boot.



The only question I have is how well it'll run on an undervalved engine

 

[cmonroe]

Under valved? Over valved(yours) Who's got the cam that looks like It cam out of a late 60's Mopar? I don't think that a cam ground like mine can even fit in an over valved Diesel

HA, thanks for the input I bet on my truck that would spool up fast.

 

[Mark_Kendrick]

Seriously,

The air and fuel requirements on a 12V are a different animal. I think it'll work, but there's only one way to tell.



Later,

Mark

 

[Greg Boardman-RIP]

Mark,

Can you PM me the cost factor for the setup you built.

 

[KatDiesel]

This thread has obviously gone astray from its purpose.



Since there is some good information in here (if you can find it) I'm just closing it.



I still wanna know what your drive pressures are Mark.



Feel free to start another thread but keep it on topic. (Everyone).