P2262 revisited

[sag2]

Thanks to both for the responses. Because I can't stand a CEL light, and after doing a lot of reading here on another Cummins site, i decided to hitch my boat and take it to the river this weekend. I always drive with the exhaust brake on, but this i left it in Tow/Haul mode, and drove the snot **** out of it on the way to launch. About 10 miles down the road, stopped for gad (for the boat ). Started the truck up and no CEL! guess it cleaned itself out. Its been humid as heck around here, with daily afternoon monsoon's, so maybe the humidity caused whatever soot was there to cake up. Again, i don't use it for a daily driver, so maybe it needed a good hard working to clear itself out. Now i have to cancel the appt with the dealer since the code isn't present, but I'm sure it will turn back up again.

Does this seem to be a common probably / annoyance with the 6. 7's? By that I mean, the code appears, CEL goes on, but then clears itself after a hard working out? I'd like to keep the CEL on if it means they will replace the turbo with a better one. Has anyone figured out how to de-soot the system without having to take it to the dealer? Thiniking of post-warranty maintenance / cost.

The code is still there, it is just stored, so you might want to keep the appointment anyway. Just in case your dealer does not know about the added diagnostic, here are the enhancements to 9. 05 I posted above. Your dealer can access them on DealerConnect/Service/Repair/wi-Tech and StarMobile tools/Latest News.

Detailed Vehicle Support Information:
Updates/New Features:
MY(s) / Vehicle(s) ECU Change Description Tracking #

2007 - 2009 DR
(DH, D1, DC, DM)
ECM
Diesel
Added "P2262 Fault Diagnosis Test" System Test

 

[MullenaxM]

StarScan/Mobile and wi-Tech version 9. 05 have a diagnostic built in now that will tell the technician if the turbo needs to be cleaned or replaced, or the controller just needs to be flashed. The important thing is the P2262 code has to be there for the diagnostic to be able to be run. If it is cleared before you start, the test will not even show up. Unfortunately it can not be used as a test to be sure the cleaning was successful as it relies on freeze frame data for some of it's diagnostic abilities. So far there is no TSB, so unless you have been to a diesel class in the last few weeks you will not know about it yet. It is also dependent on the software version of the ECM, so the trucks with newer flashes will also do a better job of properly diagnosing a clean vs. replace,.

I'm glad you brought up the the subject of the Wi-Tech diagnostic routine for the DTC P2262. Here are a few of my thoughts on that diagnostic test, but first a disclaimer:



"The following thoughts,facts,findings,opinions, are my own. I do not represent anybody but "Me,Myself,and I". This is the way I see it.





O. K. with that said, I'll give you a little back story. With all the problems that we were seeing with turbo slide rings sticking and "CHECK ENGINE" lights coming on and also with the erratic repair attempts by dealer technicians and in a effort to try to alleviate some unnecessary repairs, Chrysler came up with a twofold plan:

1) To implement a training course to train technicians on how to properly diagnose and repair the turbocharger,EGR,and Exhaust Aftertreatment systems on a 6. 7 liter diesel engine.

2) To come up with a diagnostic routine for testing the sticking turbo slide ring.



For the first part of the plan, The training course , is a good idea, In my opinion. The course is available to any Chrysler/Dodge technician, It is a Internet Live training course That the technician can sign up for and can attend at the dealership. I was invited to critique (give my opinion) before the release of the course and although I thought it could have been a little more indepth ,Overall it was O. K.

The second part of the plan, The diagnostic routine, is where I have a few issues. The diagnostic routine for testing the turbo slide ring was installed on the "Wi-tech" (Chryslers latest and greatest scan tool) on March 27 with the

9. 05 software update. If a vehicle comes in with a "CHECK ENGINE" light on and it has a DTC of P2262 ,either stored or active ,the "Wi-Tech" has a diagnostic routine test that can be performed to determine if the turbocharger needs to be cleaned or if the ECM needs to be reprogramed (flashed) or both. The program "Looks" at the "Freeze Frame" data stored in the ECM and also at the ECM calibration level and determines what repairs need to be performed. There was also suppose to be a new program (flash,calibration) for the ECM that would accually allow the diagnostic routine to accuate the slide ring to see if it would stick, But from the best I can tell the new program wont be available until the last part of June.

If your ECM has not been reprogramed after March of this year my best advise would be to schedule a appointment to have it reprogramed (flashed,recalibrated). I still think the latest calibration will cure a lot of issues.



Mike

 

[DavidBentley]

The dealer here will NOT apply new updates to my 6. 7 unless there is a symptom ocurring that is fixed by the update. I've asked repeated times and been turned down. Is there something that is fixed with the latest flash that I can discuss with the dealer to persuade him to fix me up?



I really appreciate you folks that work on these machines for a living and then take the time to share your wisdom with us shadetree mechanics. Hats off to you. thanks

 

[CYauch]

I've lost all faith in the local dealer. Since the CEL went off, i'm being told they will charge me shop time to extract data from the ECM, even though the fault is stored. crazy i say. So, called the dealer in Gulfport (which is who i should have called in the first place) and they said no problem. Bring it on in.

 

[MullenaxM]

As I stated in my previous posts in this thread, If your vehicle ECM was flashed before March of this year I would highly recommend you get it reprogramed. If your vehicle has less than 100k miles there is no reason for the Dealer to not reprogram (flash) your ECM under the Warranty Provisions. If the "CHECK ENGINE " light came on, even if the light went off, The code will be stored which is reason enough to justify warranty considerations.

On a side note, I have seen sensor connectors come loose, say possibly a EGR connector or maybe a Intake air temp connector and cause a "CHECK ENGINE" light to come on.



Mike

 

[Bob4x4]

The official policy is the stored code must be mentioned in a tsb that recommends a flash for that code as a fix but in the webinar they recommend always flashing to the latest level as well as doing everything possible to make the 6. 7 work up to it's full potential and to stop the bad press. Once again there is a stand off between the bean counters and the the techies.

SINCE IT IS THE BEAN COUNTERS THAT HOLD THE MOST POWER ... ... ... ... GUESS WHO USUALLY WINS?

 

[MullenaxM]

The official policy is the stored code must be mentioned in a tsb that recommends a flash for that code as a fix but in the webinar they recommend always flashing to the latest level as well as doing everything possible to make the 6. 7 work up to it's full potential and to stop the bad press. Once again there is a stand off between the bean counters and the the techies.

SINCE IT IS THE BEAN COUNTERS THAT HOLD THE MOST POWER ... ... ... ... GUESS WHO USUALLY WINS?

Sorry Bob, I'll have to disagree with you. Neither Chrysler/Dodge or Cummins has had a Policy of not paying Warranty Claims for a ECM reprogram because of a DTC being present, either active or stored. You are right that there are a lot of TSB's that are a repair for some DTC's , also there are alot of TSB's that are attached to certain Build dates or a certain VIN range and These claims will be denied if the vehicle is beyond the build date or VIN range and you use the TSB labor-op. Sense 2006 there has been a labor-op for a Reprogram that can be used for any ECM/PCM reprogram And as long as the vehicle is still within the warranty period the claim will pay.

You being a technician should embrace that policy, with the way business is now days I would applaud anything that brings a customers vehicle into the shop. It gives you a chance to make a customer out of them and with your good work and professionalism hopefully a chance to make a repeat customer.



Again I'm not trying to pick the fly-poop out of the pepper but I think the word needs to get out, This new calibration could be the one that works.



Mike

 

[Bob4x4]

Sorry Bob, I'll have to disagree with you. Neither Chrysler/Dodge or Cummins has had a Policy of not paying Warranty Claims for a ECM reprogram because of a DTC being present, either active or stored. You are right that there are a lot of TSB's that are a repair for some DTC's , also there are alot of TSB's that are attached to certain Build dates or a certain VIN range and These claims will be denied if the vehicle is beyond the build date or VIN range and you use the TSB labor-op. Sense 2006 there has been a labor-op for a Reprogram that can be used for any ECM/PCM reprogram And as long as the vehicle is still within the warranty period the claim will pay.

You being a technician should embrace that policy, with the way business is now days I would applaud anything that brings a customers vehicle into the shop. It gives you a chance to make a customer out of them and with your good work and professionalism hopefully a chance to make a repeat customer.



Again I'm not trying to pick the fly-poop out of the pepper but I think the word needs to get out, This new calibration could be the one that works.



Mike

I think you mis read or did not understand what I wrote.

 

[MullenaxM]

What part did I misread or misunderstand?





Mike

 

[Bob4x4]

Maybe I used an awkward sentence but if it has a code you CAN do a flash. No code there is no authorization to flash. The corporation penalyzes dealers who go too much above the other dealers in the same size/area for doing flashes as well(pulling DSA).

 

[MullenaxM]

Sounds like someone might need to educate your DSM, As I stated above, There is no reason to not reprogram(recalibrate,reflash) a 6. 7 liter ECM. You have multiple choices of labor-ops to use and if nothing else you can use the labor-op in "Quick-Ops" to get the claim paid.



Keep in mind, In my opinion, This latest calibration could alleviate a lot of P2262 codes. And looking at it from Chrysler's position, it is a whole lot cheaper to recalibrate a ECM than it is to replace a turbocharger.





Mike

 

[MullenaxM]

Just a quick update relating to the Dealer warranty considerations for Reprograming a ECM or PCM. There is now a "Warranty Bulletin" (A TSB for warranty claims administrators) That gives the dealer authorization to reprogram (Reflash) a ECM or PCM under warranty provisions without waiting for a specific symptom to occur as long as the vehicle is still within the warranty period.



If you have trouble getting a dealer to reprogam your ECM under warranty you might ask them to review Warranty Bulletin # D-09-12.



Mike

 

[DavidBentley]

Thanks for the good news Mike. Question, is there any way for us to keep track of what the most current flash is for our trucks?



thanks

 

[sabersix]

Thanks for the good news Mike. Question, is there any way for us to keep track of what the most current flash is for our trucks?

thanks

Latest flash part numbers are listed on Tech Authority

Click the link on the left side for "J2534 Flash Availability". This will open a pdf document listing all Chrysler products by year and product code. For instance, a 2009 3500 auto is on page 287. The latest part number for the ECM is 72351435AJ or "AJ" flash.

As to what version your truck has, unless there is a modification sticker in the engine compartment, you'll have to visit the dealer to determine if you have the current version.

 

[HBarlow]

I visited the nearby "lie, cheat, and steal" Dodge dealership today, the one I have driven past for 17 years to buy three Dodge Rams and a Chrysler 300C from an honest dealer in another town.

I talked with the service writer who is a nice guy, former convenience store manager, who perfectly fits the definition of "clueless. " He paged the "good" diesel tech out of two for me and I was able to talk direct with the tech about a software reflash on my truck. As expected, he wasn't familiar with the recent Cummins bulletin advising owners to have the latest reflash done but was willing to do it. When asked about a charge he told me the truck, a year old with 47,000 miles is "out of warranty" and told me the charge would be at least $85. A minute later in the same conversation he told me to bring it in, "it will only take about 1/2 hour. " I guess he figures the labor rate at $170/hr.

I learned this dealer's operating style years ago and decided then I won't buy cars or trucks from that particular store so why would I expect them to treat me with honesty on a warranty software update recommended by the engine manufacturer?

I guess I'll hold the request for a reflash until I'm in the mood to travel 300 miles and spend a night at the town where I buy trucks.

Am I misinterpreting the bulletin from Cummins posted in another thread or do I misunderstand the engine warranty? Last time I looked at my owner's manual I thought it indicated the Cummins engine is covered for 5 years and 100k miles.

I'd appreciate being corrected if I am wrong.

 

[Bob4x4]

What Cummins says has no pull with Dodge policy..... That being said I find it interesting you would pay for a hotel and more fuel to avoid paying :-laf

 

[sag2]

The flash would be covered for 3/36, unless of course you had a problem with the engine that was covered by the extended engine warranty.

 

[Hoefler]

After the 3/36 there is a $100 co-pay.

 

[RVTRKN]

If the new ECM update is the one that was downloaded for my C&C, you might want to wait to see what others have to say about it, before you have it done.



Mine is a manual (look at sig) and had an update back in Feb. (don't know the number) and I wish I had left it alone. I was warned that it was not reversible and that there was no info on the reason for it. My Dealership is top notch, and I respect the techs, and the service dept is on the ball. So when it was brought to my attention that there was an ECM update for the C&C's 6. 7 CTD. I asked my tech about it and he stated that it was up to me, but if D/C recommends it, then he would do it to his own, if he had one. He warned me again it was entirely my decision and it was irreversible.



Well here is my opinion on that ECM update, I wish I had left it alone and regret it. Because mine is a manual, there's probably a big difference then the way it would react with the auto. I now know when it is regeneration, not because there's a message or a light or a verbal message, but when rowing through the gears the throttle will seemingly stick, the RPM's will not drop rite away and it gives you the sensation the throttle is sticking. It also wants to surge ahead like if it was turbo lag just before my preferred RPM I shift at. It also has, one time only, lost power, until I down shifted, but after I moved over to get out of the way of other motorists, and then it responded and never did it again. I had my tech look at it, complete with the computer connected to it during the road test, and it surging at the same time, immediately (15 mile trip to the dealer) after it lost the power. There were also two techs on the road test, with me as a passenger. The primary tech was the tech that downloaded the new ECM program and was reading the computer and the second tech was the trany expert and was the driver. They both came to the conclusion that the new program was trying to maintain the least amount of soot in the exhaust by controlling the RPM during the regeneration process. The truck feels normal and after a few miles driving in the city it will do it, so I have to shift at a lower RPM to prevent surging and the throttle sticking sensation, then after the regeneration is done it returns to normal.

 

[HBarlow]

Thanks for the replies. I didn't know that a reflash to the ECM was only covered under warranty for the 3/36 period. I guess I see the point.

The only reason I would patronize the dealer I referred to is to obtain free warranty work. If I'm going to spend money I will do it at the dealer I like and trust. They sell me new trucks at invoice price and treat me with courtesy and respect. They deserve my business when I'm going to spend money.

It's no big deal to hook up my fiver and drive 600 miles. I can stay in the city-0wned RV park about three miles down the interstate from my favorite dealer and enjoy visiting with the people I know there.

RVTrkn, I don't like the sound of the regen "upgrade" you described. I appreciate your sharing that info. I think I'll pass. Driveability is great on mine as it was programmed by Cummins and I've not experienced any DPF soot loading during my normal duty cycle which includes some extended idle and some slow driving with a good mix of highway cruise. No reason to take a chance on messing up a good thing.