P7100 question

[RoadGoesOnForever]

As some of you may know, Ive been rebuilding a 94 Cummins to swap into an 82 Chevy. Well I just got done rebuilding it and everything went smoothly until I went to start it. I got everything bled of air and also primed the oil galleries. Then I went to start it and it wouldnt go, just puffs of smoke and the sounds of it wanting to start. It sounded like it was out of time. I then took off the number 1 and 6 valve covers and made sure I had the cam in right by looking for valve overlap in 6 and then pinned the engine to TDC. I then took off the plug on the pump and found that the little tab that should line up with the pin in back of the plug was not lined up, not even close. So I then took off the gear on the pump. The gear came off way to easy ( didnt even need a puller). I torqued the nut to 144 ft lbs and I didnt forget the lock washer or anything so I dont know what the deal was there. So now I got the engine and pump pinned to where they are supposed to be. It seems that the problem was the gears either slipped on the shaft or when I tightened it the gear moved on the shaft. First of all, is there supposed to be a key on the shaft? There is a slot for one, but I dont remember having one on there when I disassembled the engine. If not, then why after tightening the gear to the proper torque spec would the gear come off so easy? Is there something Im doing wrong? By the way, Im getting a new lockwasher from Cummins tomorrow just in case. Im just worried that somewhere down the road the gear might slip on the shaft and Ill be stranded. Thanks in advance for any advice.



Tyler

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

The keyway is not used. You need to clean the taper on the gear and shaft. I recommend Mopar non chlorinated brake cleaner. Put a long M8 x 1. 25 bolt into one of the two holes so you can rock the gear and get all of it sprayed clean. use clean compressed air to blow dry. PUSH the gear into place, then tighten the nut. Have a film of oil on the nut and washer to prevent galling. torque to 144 ft lb. Beware, at 175 you will strip the threads off the shaft, a $1000 boo-boo.

 

[RoadGoesOnForever]

So its possible the reason it didnt seat very well is I may have just had some oil on the shaft? Also,was I correct in lining up the pin in the pump and the engine at TDC? Does this put the pump at 0 degrees TDC or to the correct advance that it was set at from the factory? Thanks again.



Tyler

 

[Todd T]

ya you kinda messed up there a bit. yes it should be close but you will need to time the engine for the best results.



first you will need the tools to time it with. if you dont have them.



Hey Joe, i have seen guys use baby powder to dry up the gear and shaft too after cleaning of course.

 

[T. Baker]

I just advanced the timing on mine 2 deg to 15 BTDC. I tightened the nut to 160 ft-lbs on the advice of al at Piers diesel. I did not see anything in the manual about cleaning every thing first. I sure dont feel like taking it apart again. Also I used the TDC pin to hold the engine while torquing the nut. I now realize that could be a mistake. It did not damage it as far as I can tell. Do I need to take it apart again and clean it ???!!

Treven.

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

The timing blade sets the pump to factory spec +/- about 0. 4 deg. There is that much slop in the fit. Don't ever use the pin in the pump or on the engine to try to held the engine. Won't work. I prefer not to put anything on the taper fit, just clean and dry. They usually jump time when starting, or shifting at high rpm.

 

[RoadGoesOnForever]

Cool, thanks guys. Im gonna be trying again tomorrow morning, so Ill let you know how it goes. BTW, I do have access to the tools to time it, but for now Im just putting it at stock timing to get it started so I can get it out of the shop at school and take it home. Anyway, thanks again guys.

 

[RoadGoesOnForever]

Fired her up this morning. Took not even 1/2 second of cranking to start, pretty good considering it didnt run when I bought it. Got her painted Cummins Red like the Signature 600 and now shes ready to take home and drop in my truck in the near future. Thanks for the help guys!



Tyler

 

[HoleshotHolset]

What was the engine installed in so that you could make it run?..... I'm just trying to figure out how I can make one run on an engine stand without it falling off and landing on my foot... from the torque/vibration... .



Matt

 

[redramnc]

Matt - you can try chaining it to the front porch column :--)



True story - went to look at a 455 Olds motor one time. Being way out in the country and back off the road, the guy had it chained to his front porch column, open manifolds pointed away from the house, with a torque converter bolted to the flywheel.



He fired it up after sticking the water hose in the thermostat housing and waiting for it to fill with water. I ended up buying the motor. Now it is resting comfortably on an engine stand waiting for the time to be right to drop it in something.



I have an old car frame front half I can sit my BOP motors in for testing (no, I don't do Chebies). Same for my Scout motors. The Dodge gassers are all currently occupying engine bays so I ain't got to mess with them.



Even though I have the shop crane to do it with I hate to think about having to monkey around with a CTD. 345/392 IH V8s are heavy enough, a CTD is about 50% heavier.

 

[HoleshotHolset]

That's hilarious!



I'm gonna have to look into building a rolling engine stand just for this purpose..... you never know when you might want to hear a Detroit Diesel 6V-71TA at 3AM... . you know... just to let the neighbors know how much of an insane diesel-freak you are... .



The day will come when this very thing will happen... . not IF... . WHEN!!



Matt - insane diesel-freak for life

 

[RoadGoesOnForever]

I only ran it for about a minute on the engine stand that I rebuilt it on. Imagine a stand like for a smaller gas engine but about twice as big. It has like a 2000 lb capacity so running it on there for a short time is OK. Tomorrow im gonna buy some steel and make a stand for it so I can run it at home until I get all the parts for the swap. Im just gonna take some 3" square tube and make a rectangular base for it. Then im gonna take some 1/4" thick angle iron and weld 6 posts. The front 2 posts will bolt to the block right behind the gear case (holes are there for tractor applications). The middle 2 posts will go on the stock motor mounts and the rear 2 posts will bolt to the bellhousing. Im also gonna put an old radiator on it and a battery and small fuel tank. Should work great. Hope that helps.

 

[HoleshotHolset]

Time for me to buy a metal chop saw and a mig welder! I'm sick of using my crappy stick arc welder and a Sawz-all... .

I was thinking that this project would require a lot more than that to keep the engine in the air and off the ground... ... after seeing how much it shakes my 7000+# truck on shutdown I figured it would need a rather large stand to keep 'er steady... .



Very cool!



Matt

 

[redramnc]

I bid on a diesel engine rebuild stand that was up on the NC State Surplus Property Auction a while back. It was an old one from a community college automotive program. I didn't get the bid (intentionally low-balled the bid) but figured if I had got it at my bid I would have had a deal.



The guy I talked to before bidding said it was a cradle-type that bolted to front and rear of the engine and would require a ful-size truck to haul it away. I figured I could adapt to my gassers as a run-in stand.



State Surplus is also where I got my Blackhawk 2-ton shop crane for $150. Seems the CC got a new electric/hydraulic crane and didn't want to have to manually pump the old one up so it went to surplus. My tax dollars at work (in my shop)!

 

[HoleshotHolset]

Cool!



Matt