PDR cam w/ DD3 injector install results

[Matt400]

Mark- I may change the tappets anyway, I didn’t realize they were so inexpensive, just a little more time to do. Will you be offering those or do we get our own?



I am with TCluff but realize if you laid it all out then you give away PDR’s recipe for others to copy.



I would like to know what changes I am making so I know what to expect.

Things such as:

• Will the idle change?
  
• Is it designed for TQ or HP?
  
• How will it effect the current "flat" torque curve of the Cummins?
  
• What are you able to accomplish with a new cam vs a regrind?
  

I think those questions could be answered with out giving away PDR’s research.



JStieger-

There is some good reading in them Hot Rod magazines but your right when it comes to the biased opinions.



Some good cam info can be found here.



And then there is this article and this one that has good information, pertains to gasers but the engine is still an air pump.

 

[JStieger]

mileage and driveability update

Update on mileage



-stock truck average = 16. 32 mpg

-truck w/ electonic boxes average = 16. 78 mpg

---------------------------------------------------------------------

-truck w/ cam/injectors tank #1 = 19. 19 mpg (city driving and rolling hills through WA and OR)

-truck w/ cam/injectors tank #2 = 18. 38 mpg (steady 80 mph cruise through OR, ID, NV with gradually increasing elevation)

-truck w/ cam/injectors tank #3 = 16. 65 mpg (33% redline flogging every shift in town, 33% 82 mph cruise, 33% ~90-110 mph desolate NV backroads need some attention too)

-truck w/ cam/injectors tank #4 = 16. 92 mpg (same as tank #3!)

---------------------------------------------------------------------

-truck w/cam/injectors weighted average = 17. 78 mpg





Note that tanks #3 and #4 were all between 5,000 ft to 6,000 ft elevation. If I drove like I did for these tanks when stock or with boxes I would get about 15. 0 to 15. 5 mpg.



So the mileage advantage FOR ME with a cam and injectors:



over boxes = 1. 00 mpg

over stock truck = 1. 46 mpg (could be as high as 2 mpg if I drove more sanely)



For tank #5 I'll try to drive a bit more sanely...



Update on driveability



-still happy with the earlier rpm turbo spool compared to without cam

-do notice a bit the larger exhaust housing on the turbo at this altitude - little bit laggier compared to sea level where it was installed, but is still very tolerable and driveable.

-must be an altitude thing, but turbo only builds about 33-34 psi boost tops compared to 36-38 psi at lower elevations.

-EGT benefits are still there as reported in my first post on this thread.

-removed my VA C3. 1 to try a DD TTPM yesterday. The top end has definitely woke up along with the expected EGT increase. EGT now tops 1250* instead of 1200*. Will dyno the TTPM with cam/injectors at the Bully Dog Dog Days 7/9 (sold my BDDL this morning)



Future plans



-Definitely would be interested in trying a timing/duration box for grins and giggles (Hello Edge Juice!)





Soooooo Matt... . you're going to get a cam now for sure?

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

Nice report, and some credible numbers to go along with it. Impressive.

 

[nascar mark]

Matt,



*I'm sure we will be carrying the lifters so the customers will have a choice.



*The idle will change ever so slightly due to the difference in timing. Only noticeable to someone that is looking for it.



*The diesel cam is designed to bring the power on sooner and hold on longer. Not, more power. This turned out to be trickier with the 3rd gen engine then the 12's and 24's.



*Read above.



*As mentioned before in e-mails to you, our cam grind can't be made out of a stock cam shaft.



Keep in mind you have a diesel, not a gaser. What works for a gaser cam, won't work for a diesel.



Hope this answers your questions.

 

[Matt400]

Soooooo Matt... . you're going to get a cam now for sure?

Looks that way, just gotta select new or regrind.

I don't have any data what difference there is between them and based on users they both deliver. One will obviously save money while the more spendy one provides???

 

[Matt400]

As mentioned before in e-mails to you, our cam grind can't be made out of a stock cam shaft.

Right Mark. . all I wanted to know was why?

 

[Piers]

Matt, I'll answer that one for you. It's because the stock cam's timing is so far retarded, we can't put the grind on the stock cam we want, without comprimising it's hardness too far.

We could regrind a stock cam, but not to the spec's we want. That help?

 

[KLockliear]

i would like to know what the lobe separation, lobe lift and lobe duration of the stock cam are compared to the regrounds, based on this u could have a shop build or regrind your cam, change cam timing, and set it up for what u are going to do with it

Exactly why most vendors won't give it out.

 

[Matt400]

we can't put the grind on the stock cam we want, without comprimising it's hardness too far.

Well. . nobody wants that for sure.



Are you sure what you want is what everyone will want? I don't mean that in a mean way, I probably shouldn't even ask that being so new to Diesels and you guys being in the business so feel free straighten me out.



I was hoping to find out if yours would have more lift and or duration vs what is safely possible with a regrind to better make a decision.

Maybe we can dance a little more here and I will ask. .

Will you also offer a more mild cam that is regrind or just the new one?



Does one grind really work with all the different boxes, injectors, turbos and driving style combinations?

 

[Piers]

Well Matt, that is a pretty mild grind. The problem is you can't increase lift too much, without running into problems with valves and pistons contacting, unless one is willing to either mill the top of the piston[ done with minor grinds] or flycutting the pistons, if going with an aggressive grind. We designed our cam for trailer towing, although we also did that in the 12 & 24v 2nd gen engines, the racers found out it gave them at quicker et in the 1/4 mile by 2 tenths of a second, so we ended up selling more to race people than the tow people. Course I tow and race, so I get both benefits

 

[Matt400]

Hmmm, I see, so then it doesn't make much sense to do a regrind that stays within safety margin as you would end up with an even more mild grind. Thanks for the info.

PM me when you have some ready.

 

[GWoody]

Would someone minding pming me the prices for each of these, the regrind price vs new cam and also lifters cost??



Thanks

 

[Matt400]

GWoody- you have mail!

 

[RKerner]

Hmmm, I see, so then it doesn't make much sense to do a regrind that stays within safety margin as you would end up with an even more mild grind. Thanks for the info.

PM me when you have some ready.

A regrind, in the gasser world, reduces the base circle diameter in order to 'free up' more of the lobe for reshaping. One can get added lift and duration with a regrind with the compromise of minimal hardening depth. YMMV.

 

[thmck]

Would someone minding pming me the prices for each of these, the regrind price vs new cam and also lifters cost??



Thanks

Matt400, would you send me the same info. Thanks Tom

 

[mberry]

Me too please Matt?



-- email address removed --

 

[TCluff]

i will try to be ready for the bully dog days, but i might be selling the twins and tst for a sled puller 66 as for the pdr twins cant keep a 3rd gen cool... ... . i feel i have wasted my time and money for tons of lag and still have the egt issue of a single so i would probably be better off with a quick spooling sp66 , i mean quicker than a set of 40-16, 3b-26 twins, sorry but have had nothing but boost leaks, and now exhaust leaks, and i get killed by people running an ez and stock turbo from 0-60, the most critical speed, not bashing on piers, but these set of bolt on and drive twins have been tweaked on for the last few months or at least on my days off, still to be waxed by the guys with singles that i used to leave behind with a tiny hy-35-9 with a modded waste gate and stock fitting, sorry but just venting, i might be embarrased to show up to bully dog with twins, lots of fuel and no power!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Matt400]

i might be selling the twins and tst for a sled puller 66

Thats interesting. . reminds me of this thread where a few thought I was nuts. :-laf

 

[Jeff_K]

... i might be selling the twins and tst for a sled puller 66 as for the pdr twins cant keep a 3rd gen cool.....

I will trade you my B1-04 w/ATS for your twins

 

[Diesel Nut]

Matt or Piers - If possible I would like the same info, both on 2nd gen 12 valve and my 3rd gen motors. Thanks.

I must say that this has been a very informative thread and very helpful. I've learned a lot guys!