Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) Plate or Injectors

[BBenz]

Okay guys, I need your help here on spending some money. I have a '96 12 valve with 5 speed so I have 215hp. The only changes made to the truck so far is a 5" turbo back exhaust w/o the cat and a Prime-Loc fuel filter relocation. I know, I know, 5" is not necessary for my truck, however, Big Exhaust had a great deal on them when I bought and the wow factor was worth it!



Looking at the TST site, it appears that I can go to a #11 plate before I need to make clutch changes. It also appears that by going this route that I need to get an AFC spring kit and possibly a govenor kit. I also am considering the 370 marine injectors from Piers. Do I need anything else when going with these injectors?



I am aware that by going with either of these options that I should add guages. That aside, what are the pros versus cons of going either way here?



This forum has helped me so far so I expect to get me some more education from all you experts! :-laf

 

[Bloomy]

BBenz, I personally started with the #10 plate. You can see in my signature what the truck is. The #10 has worked great for me. I talked to the guys at Piers and that was their recommendation. It is a higher torque plate that doesn't require much if anything in the lever adjustment. The plate is also adjustable in the event you want to back it down for winter weather or EGT concerns. Rams-n-Hogs has a 96 as well. His setup is the #10 and 370's with the 4000 GSK. He spun 390 + hp and 900 + torque in October. If you can get the GSK with a plate to start, then do it. The difference there is awesome. Being able to rev to 3 grand helps eliminate the huge rpm gap when shifting from 3rd to 4th. My clutch lasted probably 10k after the install. It already had 145k on it so I wasn't concerned. A new one was in the budget anyway. EGT wise the power was usable even when towing. Since I put in 191 DV's I definitely have to do some turbo work next before I can put in a set of 370's. Final thought is to call Piers and talk to them a little. They can tell you what you want based on how you drive. Good Luck.



Thomas

 

[vssman]

I'm not sure what size plate to use in yours as it's a stick but I'd definately go with the 370's. Keep in mind you may have EGT issues (i. e. turbo upgrade). I have 300's and am already used to them. You'll probably always want more power after you get a little taste of what she'll do. Unless, of course, your one of those guys that only want a little power upgrade

 

[Forrest]

Take a look @ cost -vs- hp between a plate & injectors. That might help the decision.



Something else to consider is hp adjustability. Injectors will give you a fixed hp gain. With the 96, 215 pump, plate sliding is worth 40 to 60hp ... 100+ ft-lbs.

 

[chrleb1]

If you want to start out mild, go with the 10 plate. Like some of the other said, you can always cut it down if you have a problem with EGTs or something. With injectors, you can't really adjust them. I doubt you need an AFC spring kit, all that really effects is when you start making power. I had a light spring before and didn't like it too much. A 3K GSK is a very nice addition, makes a little heat up on top end though. Also get a good air filter, this will help out in EGTs and smoke.

 

[Rams-n-Hogs]

BBenz,



I tried a #11 first. Turned my clutch into toast, mostly because I had some serious towing miles on the truck. It is an excellent towing plate, though. If your clutch hasn't been abused, like mine was, it should last a little while. The #10 plate is an excellent plate as well. You need to determine what you are going to do with the truck, to figure out where to go with it. When you put a plate in, you will want either the 3K or 4K springs. The response of the truck will put you in the next gear quicker than you can blink, and it will seem like all you are ever doing is shifting. I am going to put the stock plate back in for the winter, I just haven't got around to it, yet. I don't know how that combo will work out. My 370's went in after the #10. If you do both, be prepared to upgrade the turbo as well. It's a little too much fuel for the HX-35. My hybrid works well, though, for now. Let us know how things work out. Happy BOMBing.



Jim

 

[DMC]

I think you should get the gauges first. Then when you do the mods you will be able to keep up with the temps and boost at a minimum. I'm still trying to decide where I'm going to get my gauges, And I hope I can find a dual column pod and mount two there and two more under the dash just to the left of the range shifter.



Just my . 02



Good Luck



Don

 

[Jim Fulmer]

Plate first... . remember that you have a good pump and good injectors already, in that pump if you have the clutch or an auto to hold it I would go with a #10, 3K's and a timing bump in either one... . there is allot of power to be made there... . wish I had my hands on it.



Jim

 

[BBenz]

I knew that I could count on you guys to give good advice!



I don't often tow with my truck, but when I do it is usually a piece of equipment that weighs about 3 tons plus trailer. I have the 3. 54 and would love the new 3. 73 and 6 speed with the HO engine but a guy only has so much money so I guess I need to keep my truck that only has 73K on it (and been paid for for 3 years) and let the bombing begin!!



I drive a truck for our local HS marching band when they go to away games and competitions. Their truck is a 94, but the previous owner had some extra goodies put on it (what all I do not know) and I pull a 48' 5th wheel trailer that weighs about 8K with another 4-5K of equipment in it and it has b**** far bigger than my truck ever hoped to have. :{



I do know that it has 4. 10, 5 speed plus a gear vendor splitter and different injectors but I don't know what else. If I drive the truck without the trailer attached it will put me back in the seat like my Z-28 does. That is what I want my truck to do. If a #10 will get me there great. After hearing somemore details, what do you guys think?

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

Start with the 11; it will take the clutch and egt to the edge. The 10 will require a clutch and a minimum of 16 cm2 exhaust housing to keep egts down; HX40 would be better. I designed the 10 for TST; call me if you need more info.

 

[Forrest]

I don't doubt it will.



I had the stock plate, 300 marine injectors & wanted more, so I ordered the #12. Installed @ centered & WOW!!! Rear bumpers came up real fast ... front end got light ... rear squatted down & got squirrely. Low rpm was a little better than stock & higher RPM came on like a 2 stroke with an expansion chamber. Real "pipy".



Thought that a #11 would be even better, so I ordered one up. Got it, went to remove the #12 & found a #8 in the pump.



As it turns out, I never checked the number on the 12. Got sent a #8 by mistake. The #8 ... lower #, therefore has more fuel than the #11 or #10.



I put in the #11 centered ... what a dog, comparatively speaking. I had to slide the #11 full forward to equal the #8 centered!!! The #11 stayed as it had more low end, especially slid.



The 300 marine injectors & the #11 full forward was close to the limit of the clutch.

 

[Jim Fulmer]

Start with the 11; it will take the clutch and egt to the edge. The 10 will require a clutch and a minimum of 16 cm2 exhaust housing to keep egts down; HX40 would be better. I designed the 10 for TST; call me if you need more info.



Couldn't have said it better!





Rear bumpers came up real fast ... front end got light ... rear squatted down & got squirrely.



Dang I thought that was my truck



Jim

 

[Deezul1]

See my sig, this is a great combination with plenty of power for racing or towing. I tow a 6500lb travel trailer as fast as I want to go and pulls almost all hills in 5th with the cruise control set. I dont know how quick it is but I beat a ricer that runs 15. 2 anytime he wants to run. Ya gotta watch the EGT when towing at real high altitude on steep hills but it is easy to manage with throttle.

 

[SMorneau]

Listen to Joe, he knows what he is talking about. A #10 will put your clutch in an early grave. A #11 is a good plate that will make your truck run much better than stock and your clutch will stand a chance.



I tried a #10 recently and I sent it back to Joe because I didn't like the clouds of smoke I seemed to put out in metro traffic. I am currently running an 11 in a forward position and it the smoke is easier to control. Do I miss the low end power of the #10 plate? Hell yes I do! Third gear tire smoking launches were very easy with the #10, but you had better have a upgraded clutch.



I am sure I will end up with a 10 plate again in the future but I may try bigger injectors with the 11 first. As pointed out I can slide the plate to make it work with the injectors. What I really need is a bigger turbo, or two





If you buy your plate from the right place they will swap it for another profile when you want. Call Joe.

 

[BBenz]

Hey guys, thanks for all the great suggestions and comments! I talked to Mark at TST and he has me almost talked into a #11 with 16 cm2 housing which will give me 300hp and 700lb-ft which is a hefty improvement over what I currently have.



I know that puts me dangerously close to needing a clutch, but a guys gotta do what a guys gotta do right? Anyways, do any of you feel that I should consider the AFC spring kit for smoke control? Personally myself, I like smoke - especially when it is coming out of my 5" exhaust when a Ford of Chevy is close by



Thanks again for the advise and any additional comments that you might bestow upon me.

 

[Forrest]

BBenz,





pls e-mail me ... thanks





-- email address removed --

 

[Sled Puller]

Do some price $hopping for new parts, then scan the used stuff.



Back in 97, there were no used parts!!!

 

[JoshPeters]

BBenz, Here's a local dyno day that we had here in MN. Tim (diesel tim on TDR) is running a 10 plate full forward and 370's. He also has an upgraded clutch. Personally I'd start with the 10 plate and take it easy. Then when you do the clutch you can go big, and get the injectors. Tim doesn't leave as much smoke as I do/can, with my 6 plate and 370's, but he's got more power.



http://www.tdr1.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=80837

 

[SMorneau]

Josh, have you dynoed with the 370's?

 

[Turbo Thom]

Now here comes my opinion. I installed the 370's with a #10 plate. Then the 3K governor springs. Had the pump put on the stand and adjusted each barrel to pump 233 cc each. I run the plate at 1/16 past center. Installed the con 0 fe and put it on the drag strip. Then the dyno. 405 HP at 1025 lbs of torque. To much power and to much smoke to tow my fiver. Removed the 370's and reinstalled the 215's now at 305 HP and 760 on the torque. Still I may go down to the #11. 4 transmissions and 2 drive shafts later I can't afford to play that game any more. O yeah. And the transfer case rear section rebuilt. And 3 clutches. And, oh well.



So remember, the primary parts for power are not the only thing to think about.



. . Preston. .