Power loss after new F1 injectors

[JackN]

Regarding our '03 Dodge in the signature:



Had the injectors re-done w/ 40hp nozzles, and now our power is all gone. The truck will not get over 60 mph w/ a trailer on now, and it is smoking black smoke now. What would cause this?



Right after they put the injectors in, we had an intake gasket leak for a week, and then we got that fixed. Then the power was not there so we took it in again, and the scanner didn't come up w/ any codes or anything but the fuel filter apparently was full of "mud", just really dirty, so that got changed. So now there is still no power. I disconnected the edge juice, and it still has no power. I wonder if it is the lift pump and injector pump. This is our bad luck truck.

 

[lmills]

heavy black smoke and excess EGT's are from lack of boost. Check your turbo first

 

[JackN]

Boost #'s on the attitude monitor show 0-5-6psi on no throttle to mild throttle; 22-23psi on full throttle runs w/ loaded trailer behind. egt's are from 800 to 1200 w/ the edge disconnected. That is a full throttle run w/ a 10k trailer down a 1 mile stretch, 93 degrees Farenheit outside, and I only got to 55mph max. That is where it flatlined like there was a governer on it. I don't know, but I thought that was normal boost for an '03, and normal egt's for our elevation (~5500ft-6000ft). I may be wrong because I am no expert. Thanks.

 

[lmills]

have you checked codes yet?

 

[JackN]

Yep, no codes

 

[MountainMan1]

You stated a real dirt filter... check it again, perhaps you have a bad load of fuel... it does happen now and again!



Peter

 

[MA2LA]

well if you filter was that dirty I hate to see what you lift pump might look like.

 

[raychem]

Boost #'s on the attitude monitor show 0-5-6psi on no throttle to mild throttle; 22-23psi on full throttle runs w/ loaded trailer behind. egt's are from 800 to 1200 w/ the edge disconnected. That is a full throttle run w/ a 10k trailer down a 1 mile stretch, 93 degrees Farenheit outside, and I only got to 55mph max. That is where it flatlined like there was a governer on it. I don't know, but I thought that was normal boost for an '03, and normal egt's for our elevation (~5500ft-6000ft). I may be wrong because I am no expert. Thanks.

Thats actually about right for boost and elevation with the edge disconnected. Get a scanner DRB3 or equivalent that can read rail pressure. Let us know what it is. Now I noticed on your other post, did you just change nozzles or were the units serviced by someone. These injectors get to a point where they are just not serviceable and have to be replaced since there are really no parts for them.



Also who changed the injectors... ... those fuel connector tubes are vital and if they do not seal against the injector body they will bleed off pressure. If they are installed too tight they will crack the injector body. Hence why with 3rd gens everything as far as injectors are concerned should be torqued down; but thats my opinion.



Get the scanner, let us know what you see as far as RP since by your post it is the onlything that was touched on the truck. Double check all your connections and get back yo us.



Richard

 

[JackN]

Thats actually about right for boost and elevation with the edge disconnected. Get a scanner DRB3 or equivalent that can read rail pressure. Let us know what it is. Now I noticed on your other post, did you just change nozzles or were the units serviced by someone. These injectors get to a point where they are just not serviceable and have to be replaced since there are really no parts for them.



Also who changed the injectors... ... those fuel connector tubes are vital and if they do not seal against the injector body they will bleed off pressure. If they are installed too tight they will crack the injector body. Hence why with 3rd gens everything as far as injectors are concerned should be torqued down; but thats my opinion.



Get the scanner, let us know what you see as far as RP since by your post it is the onlything that was touched on the truck. Double check all your connections and get back yo us.



Richard

Sorry, the Edge was plugged in w/ those boost #'s. I was reading those #'s off the attitude monitor. Anyhow, the injectors are Formula 1 Flux 1 40hp nozzles, that have been completely gone through, and even a couple got replaced. So I am not too worried about the injectors being bad at all. I might have the mechanic take a look at the rail pressure,(wouldn't the sensor say if something was wrong?), the lift pump pressure, and re-check the fuel filter.

 

[raychem]

Sorry, the Edge was plugged in w/ those boost #'s. I was reading those #'s off the attitude monitor. Anyhow, the injectors are Formula 1 Flux 1 40hp nozzles, that have been completely gone through, and even a couple got replaced. So I am not too worried about the injectors being bad at all, just something else that happened at the time of the install. I kind of worried that the intake gasket leak that occured the week after the injector install hurt something else, but I don't know. I might have the mechanic take a look at the rail pressure,(wouldn't the sensor say if something was wrong?), the lift pump pressure, and re-check the fuel filter.

Yeah I know Don does good work so I would not worry about the injectors for now. The boost numbers, was the edge turned up, or was it on stock setting. The numbers are right for stock setting as far as boost goes. The boost leak has nothing to do with what your describing in the sence that a boost leak would make it worse. Solving the boost leak would make the truck run stronger. For now, yeah you could check lift pump pressure and the filter but it is faster to go to the source... RP. Again what is it? Remember your problem started witht he injector replacement. Do you have the RP available for the injectors? Was the truck doing this befor you replaced the injectors???

3rd Gen trucks are not second or 1st gen trucks and are a little bit harder to trouble shoot. Give me a call, 786-543-9176 see if I can help you out.



Richard

 

[JackN]

Boost #'s were on level three, and the boost was that way before the injector change. The truck had more good power before the injector replacement. I will have the mechanic check rail pressure asap. We are going to do a full leak test on the compressor side of the turbo to make sure there are no leaks at the intercooler boots, or the intercooler first.

 

[JackN]

I took it out empty today after plugging the edge back in and observed the following:



Boost #'s on level 1-5 were from 2-3psi cruising, to 22-25 WOT. No real drastic changes until level 5 where it would hit 24-25psi consistently under WOT. We are at 5500 ft elevation up here, so I don't know if that is pertainent info or not. Some black smoke at all shifts on all levels. Heavy on level 5 obviously. Low boost fueling on all power levels set at 3. EGT's 1100 on level 3 WOT, 1200+ on level 5 relatively quick. NO POWER, very sluggish especially under load or incline. We will check RP as soon as mechanic can fit it in.

 

[JackN]

We checked for boost leaks and there were none. So we also checked the rail pressure on scanner. The scanner would show the computers programmed rail pressure for a certain rpm, and then it would also show actual rail pressure. There was no more than a 100psi difference at any given rpm, so rail pressure checked out ok.



While we had it on the scanner, I noticed that the Edge monitor was showing 0psi boost while idling, and the scanner was showing 13psi boost while idling. So now we know that the 13psi was not the actual boost, so that made us come to the conclusion that the MAP sensor was bad and giving false readings. So now we are waiting for a MAP sensor to come in to see if that is the problem. Again nothing has tripped a code w/ all of this.



Are we on the right track?

 

[Bob Wagner]

yes sir you are

 

[JackN]

Well we replaced the MAP, and it still reads 13psi on the scanner and there is no power change. We then changed the boost sensor, and still no change. Now I have absolutely no idea where to go from here. All I know is that the truck had more power w/ mismatched bad injectors and seemed to run better. Now we put in the flux 1's and it won't get out from underneath itself. I'm confused.

 

[betterthanstock]

I think the scanner reads absolute pressure. Normal atmospheric pressure is 14. 7 psi at sea level, so 13 at idle is pretty close. In that case, at 23 psi gage, the absolute pressure should read about 37.



Most likely, the connector tubes to the injectors are leaking. Loosen and retorque properly. If fuel filter was dirty, the connector tubes have some "edge filters" (tiny passage thru which the fuel flows into the injector. Those may be clogged. Blow compressed air backwards thru them, or just replace them. Or you could have received someone else's bad injectors? I don't know, you need to ask flux if it;s possible.

 

[JackN]

Just an update to conclude the thread:

We replaced the lift pump w/ a direct replacement from Geno's and still had the same problem. So we took everything apart and started from square one. He cleaned the connector tubes and pressure tested them, and put everything back together. Low and behold... ... ... ... it works! The truck is running better now than it ever has. The injectors are amazingly smooth, and the power of the truck is amazing. We must have had a clogged tube or more. Thank all of you for the help and support. We were ready to light the truck on fire at one point, and now we are all smiles. A special thanks to Rip Rook w/ Source Automotive for the injectors, and all of the over-the-phone tech support and time he spent w/ me. Top notch business.

Jack

 

[RMarkey]

Did you go with full injectors or just nozzles?

I don't know anything about the F1 injectors, but I'd like to do about the same setup, but everything is so pricey.

 

[JackN]

Well, long story short, there are a few new injectors, and all of the injectors have been gone through, inspected, and then got new nozzles. The truck is a lot quieter now and smooth as silk. But the power hits like a freight train at the same time.