Preporator DYNO thread

[WadePatton]

Charlie is putting up three units to be dyno tested by TDR members. Thanks Charlie.



The Fuel Preporator is not QUITE the same as the FASS. The Preporator has gone through some evolution and manufacturing changes. I'll let Charles fill you in there. He has already posted some excellent information under the "FASS" threads.



For those who don't know, Brad Ekstam is Charles Ekstam's son. They worked together for some time, and now they don't. There is a court battle going on right now concerning their differences. I think it is safe to say that the original Preporator is the daddy of the FASS. But let's not get too far into the personal business made public part of the deal.



Sometime back, Brad made +HP claims for his system (FASS). When prodded for dyno information and further testing, we found that those numbers came from G-techs and Fords.



While both systems are primarily designed to enhance fuel pressure and transfer pump reliability issues, there underlies enhanced performance issues/claims that INTRIGUE some of us.



I couldn't get Brad to volunteer a FASS for testing, but now Charles is providing Preporators.



THERE WILL BE THREE TESTS ACROSS THE COUNTRY. CA's Rattlin Rams(Kevin Marlin), PA's JetPilot (Doug Smith), and the Mid-TN TDR (us) will be conducting before and after dyno runs.



No, this won't be the end-all absolutely scientific, white lab-coat type test. This will be down and dirty, run it as it is, change it, run it again test. But I do believe each test group will give the unit a fair shake.



We'll desribe each test truck as best we can and we'll note all the changes we detect. What more could you ax for?



I think Doug is going to use a straight up stock truck. I'm going to use my 24v--which is in the mid 400's right now. Full details when we do the numbers.

 

[Dkevdog]

Yes, this is true. I spent a great deal of time on the phone with Charles Friday.



We need to establish a basis for which the testing is done, so that we are all on the same page.



Wade, I sent you a PM.



Kev

 

[Proram]

Prep test.

3 dyno's in 3 parts of the country and your not even gonna test a FASS which was the basis for all the *****in to begin with!



QUOTE: While both systems are primarily designed to enhance fuel pressure and transfer pump reliability issues, there underlies enhanced performance issues/claims that INTRIGUE some of us.



if there are no performance claims w/ the prep, why are you even bothering? Why wont Brad put up a pump? cause he's tired of all you guys bashing him! as for Doug(jetpilot) he wouldnt even be involved if for the fact theres a free pump involved! if the Prep is the same basic pump as the FASS what do you hope to learn without testing a FASS too. You guys make absolutly NO sence at all!



SS



PS i do have a FASS and it was offered to be used but i make " to much HP"

 

[Hammer]

PS let Wade do it! he seems to know more than all

Maybe he could have his old friend "Got Smoke" help him too... .



I'll not understand what 3 tests,3 different dynos,3 totally different weather conditions will add up to or prove. I'll stand by my earler comments and add this. As stated before there is no HP gains in fuel systems. Longevity and reliablity is what all here are searching for and in ALL these threads it HAS NOT been addressed or answered. WHY some ask,because the builders of these to new fuel systems have not been manfacturing them for our trucks(as this is a new application for them)and only have their prior experiences to draw on from the heavy market. IF anyone thinks HP can be gained by just adding a fuel pump don't you think other forms of the performance industry would have done it first???.



If these tests are not done on a stock truck,stock fueling system, and using ALL Pumps(meaning three dyno rips,stock fuel system,FASS installed,Preporator last),using the stock pickup in tank,then all your doing is beating your head against the wall and showing nada. The initial beef was the HP claims of the FASS and its already been shown there is none. Heck,why not add a PE4200 to the test while your at it since the problems have been worked out on it?. I know,you can't get one for free,thats why.



Man I am glad my truck didn't fit the criteria for this,Guess my truck was not stock enough and had to much HP. I have to wonder why I was told I needed a larger pick-up tube to do this test and had to be FASS equipped to make the results better. Then when I offered a truck which was properly equipped,all I got the song and dance mode.



Its the old "smoke and mirrors" shell game here again. If it wasn't then all fuel pumps would be involved(FASS,Carter,PE,Holley,etc,etc)and without all present then the tests are only a way for those involved to receive free equipment.



I think I'll stay home and enjoy a nice BBQ and save myself the BS and the headaches. So heres to waiting for the real question to be answered... . Reliability and Longevity,can these pumps prove themselves?... ... ... ... ... Andy

 

[WadePatton]

If you'll carefully re-read Charlie's posts, you might learn where the two systems are different. Or just call him. There's still plenty of time for Brad to pony up some pumps if he wants to play. Brad hasn't expressed any frustration with me at all. I think he rather enjoys the publicity, and I have no beef with that. I'm just here to try things and learn stuff.



Fuel pressure has never been the main thrust of the Preporator/FASS argument. Any pump can produce flow and pressure. Fuel condition is the hallmark of these systems. Charlie is on the road right now, but he can address this quite a bit better than I can when he gets back.



The test vehicles at this point appear to be:

East-all stock.

West-HO with 275's and EZ.

Southeast-ETC with DD3's, DDUFM, HX35/40.



Looks like a good cross-section of test units to me. I'm looking forward to seeing what happens and telling it like it is. What's all the fuss? :-{}

 

[Jetpilot]

Here is the deal as I see it..... HP/performance claims are being made and we now have a way to see if these claims are true. The tests need to be done with some degree of control measures. All the test vehicles should dyno then install the Preporator and dyno again on the same day (if possible). No additional mods or adjustments should be done to the truck except for what is included in the Preporator install kit between the dyno runs.



If anybody else has any ideas/opinions as to how the tests should be performed please post. No test is complete unless there is good data obtained and folks can come to their own conclusions.



Doug

 

[lil red cummins]

looks like you guys have a pretty good handle on the testing criteria. i look forward to your test results and conclusions.



jim

 

[marksmith]

I myself would require the owner/tester install the pump all but tapping the vent line and getting past the factory LP and filter (I think they are bypassed anyway) Have all the wiring and lines ran before they dyno that way they can assure another dyno withing just a few hours.



JMHO and have fun people..... Ifn they wanna spin the rollers let em.



Mark

 

[Cooker]

I'm interested to see what the results are.

 

[Dkevdog]

Its the old "smoke and mirrors" shell game here again. If it wasn't then all fuel pumps would be involved(FASS,Carter,PE,Holley,etc,etc)and without all present then the tests are only a way for those involved to receive free equipment.

As Wade pointed out, with the exception of the FASS, none of those pumps are designed to remove entrained air from the fuel system. And on that basis, is where the power increase is supposed to be coming from. I have spent a great deal of time with Charlie learning about the system and the differences from the FASS. Why Brad won't offer up product for testing, I don't know. I 've been told thatthere are components that were removed from the Preporator design to create the FASS system and as a result is introducing more air to the fuel system, which could be why (if there even is any gained HP from this process) the FASS system didn't show any increase on the Dyno. It's also why the FASS is less expensive. I don't have all the answers. But will do fair and impartial testing, no BS.



As for longevity?? These pumps have been on Dodge applications long before all this erupted on the TDR. And yes, the OTR applications are well known. I can't remember the specifics of the conversation, when Charlie returns maybe he can post the details and clear things up, and provide more information. Trust me, he knows what he is opeing up here.



Charlie is also working on a solution to for the return line as well as a wiring harness to simplify things.



As Doug pointed out, we will establish and adhere to the same set of controls to try and keep variables to a minimum.



Kev

 

[How'dHeDoThat]

AWESOME

I have the Preporator and I am the one that directed Charlie to this site. I experienced increases on the dyno but cannot say it was conclusive testing because I am sorting through other "issues" with the truck.



Did my truck respond favorably the day the Preporator was installed? Heck ya!



Hammer... . Something has to be said for all the other improvements that the Preporator made as well.



My truck quieted down

My rpm's went from 3100 max consistently to 3550 consistently on the dyno after I installed the Preporator

My truck smoked less ALOT less.

My fuel economy (which was suffering) improved



After researching a bit what the patents are for it is not just another fuel system... it removes entrained air and if what I am gathering is true. NO FUEL SYSTEM HAS EVER succesfully removed entrained air.



I applaude Charles for providing these units for testing... As for what will it prove... .



Truck "A" gets "X" horsepower before and "Y" horsepower after the install. This will represent the benefit in horespower that the truck gets by making this change. Ok so they aren't testing 15 fuel systems... SO WHAT! It is what it is...



What I don't understand is there was upset cause no one tested it...

upset cause there is no proof it lasts... well besides 8 wheelers logging 100's of thousand miles

upset cause the manufactures made claims about performance and didnt backit up with numbers

now it is upset cause they are and it is not including the FASS which refuses to participate for whatever reason.



PS... . NO MY PREPORATOR WASN'T FREE



PSS I WOULD LOVE A FREE ONE TO TEST ON MY 04 model ha ha

 

[WadePatton]

Double thanks for sending Charlie our way.

 

[How'dHeDoThat]

NOW IF WE CAN JUST GET.....

Charles to make an already simple install even more DODGE FRIENDLY it will be the homerun of the year!



On my 01 I made a bracket to weld to the spare tire support and mounted it right behind the rear diff.



The supplied wires were long enough but I extended the low fuel pressure/dirty filter light wires so I could run it through the firewall. I beleive this would be unneccesary if you run the light wires through the floor pan and up to the dash or A pillar.



GOOD LUCK WITH THE TESTS... looks like a GREAT group to do the testing!



James



PS. I ditched the ugly light for a cool little LED.



PSS. I got all my fuel line and fittings from a hydraulic supply house.



PSSS. Don't try and run larger than 3/8 from the fuel pickup at the tank unless you make a bigger fuel pickup... upsizing anywhere will create cavitation IMO

 

[banshee]

How'dHeDoThat,



What kind of gain did you see on the dyno, and what other changes did you make between the previous dyno?

 

[How'dHeDoThat]

Banshee,

I laid down a paultry 397-401 at the DFW Dyno day... 2800-2900 rpms



After that with some wastegate adjustments I laid down 399-404 at SpeedWorks in Lewisville,TX. 3100 rpms with the wire cut



I installed the Preporator and ran the Lewisville dyno and put down 417-421 at 3550 rpms.



The changes that I was making if memeory serves was wastegate adjustment... I am working with a regulator to the top or bottom of the wastegate different runs.



Interestingly, all the dyno runs before the Preporator the truck defueled and I lost boost at the highest rpm. With the Preporator I have to let off as it acts like it will hold 3550 rpms all day long.



Now I am anxious to go back and see what I can do...



ordered parts... dual boost controler, injectors, and last but not least i just received my 3rd or 4th drag Comp and this one is right!!! GOTTA LOVE Edge Customer Service they have been diligent with me as we tried to figure out why they were having bad boxes and why I was getting them.



I mainly say my dyno run was inconclusive due to all the changes I was making in an effort to tune my twins and the bad Drag Comp. I do reiterate that I knew there was an improvement (noticable) when I installed the Preporator.



James

 

[Big P]

James, in all fairness there is ALOT of variables in your post. I can also say that with my Fass there is no doubt my truck is stronger on the bottom end. I'm running DD2's an Edge Comp and a Southbend ConFE. Smooth 3rd gear starts are now possible with zero throttle and the box off, never could have done that before. I can't give a good evaluation on top end performace yet, system has only been on about 15-20 miles.

Also, what about the current fuel systems on the subject trucks? Are they in good operating condition? Do they currently provide ample fuel pressure for mods? I guess what I'm getting at is if a truck is currently running 3psi for example on a full throttle run, I don't think it would be surprising to see a power increase on a dyno with a good working fuel system.

 

[How'dHeDoThat]

I couldn't agree more!

Big P,

As I stated my dyno runs were inconclusive because of the "variables".

The things that were conclusive...

QUIETER

LESS SMOKE

QUICKER BOOST (forgot that one)

increase in mpg

Noticable gain in performance after the install

HIGHER RPM's



I also couldn't agree more that the trucks receiving this unit should have ample fuel systems prior to installing the Preporator.

Very Good Point indeed!



Guys make sure you set the FUEL PRESSURE on the Preporator up as I beleive they are shipped set on 8psi.



James



PS> My dyno runs are one of the big reasons why I am anxious to see the results of these tests.

 

[PRout]

Lets quit talkin and get some HP numbers.

 

[777 MECHANIC]

James,

Let me know when you want to go and dyno. I need to get mine on there also.



MikeD

 

[banshee]

How'dHeDoThat,



Thanks for the numbers. That's a pretty good gain if some/all of it came from the pump. These pumps (FASS & Prep) sound like they have similar benefits to cams... . not really a huge gain on the dyno, but in the real world the make a big difference. Thanks again.



John