Radio Tower install question

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I have a 67' (approx) freestanding amateur radio tower that I am thinking about putting up. Is there any place I can get info regarding how deep and how much concrete is required or installation needs?



I dont know who made it so getting an OEM base plate is not possible; it is in tapered three leg sections.



I bought it at a VFD auction for $100.



Thanks
 
A tower that size, I'd say at least 2 sq yds of concrete, probibally 3.

Really depends on how big of an antenna (sq ft)youre planning, are you going to use guide wires, is it aluminum or a steel tower.

If it were mine, I'd err on the safe side with some extra high strength concrete, and I'd use at least a yard more than is reccomended.

What type of soil do you have there?

The above especially holds true if it's sandy soil.

JM . 02

Eric
 
Talk about a who's your lawyer question:D



It depends, I just finished a tower only 55' high but it took 29 yards of concrete, hand mixed, two mixers, 21 laborers, 14 hours.



What kind of soil?

Can you reach bedrock?

What is the moisture level in the soil?

What Kind of Tower?

How wide at the base?

Base Plate or embedded section?

How wide is the top?

How wide are the legs and members?

Round or Angle?

Square or Tri?

How much wind loading?

How Much Ice Load?

Seismic Zone?

Basic Wind Speed?

Mass, Matt, or Spread foundation?

Flat installation area or hilltop?



60' and 18" face can usually be slapped up with 10' in the ground in a hole 3' in diameter and extending about a foot out of the ground ( about 2. 8 yards ) and it isn't going anywhere with 5sq. ft. af antenna surface on it, usually.
 
I find 27 yards a little on the high side. When we installed frost control wind machines in my sandy orchard the concrete was 4'x4'x10' deep, about 18 yards (two trucks). This was for a 60' tower made of 24" pipe with a 150 hp electric motor on top and a 30' prop cranking out a 250 mph wind. This was held down with four 2" dia L bolts imbedded 3' in the concrete. It was done to code. Seems like an antenna would take a lot less, but I know nothing about them...
 
I think

I think 60' is the height limit for amatuer radio towers. We used bury at least 4', with a standard 50' tower, these had a regular base for towers. With 67', I would go with a 8' hole and 4x4 slab of renforced concrete. Then you will need three guy posts within a 50-80' radius buryed 8' deep. Set at least two sets of guy wires at 30' and at 6" from the top. However three sets would be better at 20', 40', and 6" from top. Your guy posts need to be set in concrete to. Make sure you have plenty of help setting the tower as they can be alot of fun. We had one come within inches of taking out a neighbors new Vette one time!



I have set several with five element beams and the antena itself will go before the tower. Of course we live in a high wind area at times.
 
illflem -



29 Yards, actually the minimum for a 2. 5 safety factor, 1/2" radial ice and 75 mph basic wind speed.



Tower is 5 feet on a face, 3-1/2" diameter legs of solid, not tubular, steel, supports 3 10' dishes, and an antenna frame for more antennas.



I've also stood a 100' tower that took 56 yards, 420,000 lbs of overturning moment in that short height.



By the same token, I've freestood a 90' Rohn 45 in an 8' hole 2' in diameter filled with 'crete and it works just peachy with 10 sq ft. of antenna area. Good Soil though.
 
You need to figure out who made it first...

I'd bet it's a Rohn.



The classic Rohn tower is a 64 ft free standing 8 sections tapered. It's been a few years since I put one up, but if I remember right, fully loaded, they spec a 6' x 6' x 6' block. You can get by with less crete than they recommend if you've got decent soil. Here's their site http://www.rohnnet.com/ and another good source of info is http://www.texastowers.com/ .



Whatever you do, get lots of experienced help and be careful when you put it up. Had a friend ride a 40ft section to the ground last fall and he'd been doing tower work for years. Check around for some local ham operators, they'll be able to help you out.



rick



N9HKR
 
Thanks for the responses, especially loved the 'who's your lawyer' one.



I'll investigate the leads you all provided.



I never cease to be amazed at the amount of knowledge available here on the TDR AND the willingness of the membership to help each other.



Thanks.
 
I would highly recommend contacting a local structural engineer. They can design the foundation based on the elements listed above, especially wind load, soil conditions, tower dimensions and weight. I used to live in a house where the previous owner was into ham and he was testing towers for a manufacturer at this house. We would a few times in the winter experience wind gusts ~140 mph. He had a few towers topple over due to poor location of guy wires, inadequate foundations and tower designs that weren't suitable to the conditions.
 
Re: Ground rods.

Actually you don't want to have the grounds rods connected to the tower through the concrete.



Any support structure inside the concrete should not touch ground. Then you put the Grounds just off the concrete and run heavy wire to them from the tower. That way if you do take a strike, the lightning follows the ground system away from the concrete. Take a shot through the concrete and it will explode, kind of like hitting a concrete floor with a torch :(



Plus any steel that is in contact with the ground will rust away some day, this leaves a hole in the concrete that water will work into, freeze, and crack the concrete.



I have a 67' crankup, sitting on 18" X 18", 3' deep, its hard soil, but it’s guyed. The bottom section has 1/4" stainless guy wires; the top 2 sections have 3/16" stainless wires.



The bottom guys always stay tight, but when lowering the tower I actually have to raise it up about an inch first so the tower dogs release. To do this I have to remove the top 2 sets of guys. So I don't have to screw with the guy adjustment, I bought 3 Chain chinch (spelling) like you see used to tighten up loads on trailers. Just release the chain chinch, it gives me around 8" of slack, and crank down the tower.



On top of the tower I have 1-24 el 432 MHz antenna, below that I below that I have a pair of horizontal stacked 7 el Quads for 144. 200 MHz.



Originally posted by Skydiver

Don't forget to drive your 3 ground rods in after the hole is dug.

Tim
 
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Tow Pro

Good point,I have seen concrete that has exploded from lighting, in another structure.

But the towers I have seen have the have the large copper(no corrosion) leads bolted and braised to each of the three legs. I do know its not easy to get lightning to make a 90 degree turn.

Tim
 
Originally posted by Tejas Deezul
I have a 67' (approx) freestanding amateur radio tower that I am thinking about putting up. Is there any place I can get info regarding how deep and how much concrete is required or installation needs?

I dont know who made it so getting an OEM base plate is not possible; it is in tapered three leg sections.

I bought it at a VFD auction for $100.

Thanks

Check with your local authorities. Most likely the installation will need to be inspected and you may need a permit. The local inspectors will know what's needed. And required.

When Dad installed his 55' crank-up, the local code required him to have all cables running in the ground to be in conduit. They required him to have one 8' ground rod for each leg and a continuous loop of #6 copper from each rod, up to the leg, back to the trench to the next rod. THe loop had to be about one foot from the concrete. Dad also ran the #6 in the trench from one rod by the tower to the house (60').

The #6 wire was braised onto the tower legs high enough so there isn't a hard bend near the bottom. Though it's nice to think that such grounding will work well, you *really* can't control where lightning will go.

Remember, ground rods can have quite a few ohms of resistance between them and the ground. So you want as much ground exposure as possible.

You definitely want all steel re-bar *inside* the concrete, unexposed to the elements.

Be *real* careful if you have a base plate custom built. Call a few tower manufacturers. One of them will likely recognize the tower and tell you who made it.

Now, as to the tower that required 29 yards of concrete, considering the cross-section of that tower, 29 yards is about right. Most ham towers have a much smaller cross-section, and need a far smaller base. I thnk Dad only needed about 5 yards. (I think!)

Good luck!
Fest3er
 
As to grounding..... The reason to keep the rebar 3" inside the perimeter of the foundation is to prevent oxidation of the rebar and subsequent weakening of the foundation.



Concrete 'breathes' water in and out normally and retains a fair amount of moisture under its mass. The Moisture in concrete and the surrounding surface, and the contact with that surface actually produce a reasonable ground even before the addition of ground rods. This is called a UFER ground.



Additionally, you should have a perimeter ground around a tower of either driven rods or direct contact subsurface copper that is bonded to the lowest portion of the tower above the foundation using a 'CAD' weld for lowest impedance.



Antenna cables should come off the tower at as near 90 degrees as possible and from the lowest point possible. If you can come off the tower at floor level rather than ceiling level so much the better. Just don't let the cable traverse vertically near the tower as you will re-induce a current into the cables.



Generally 3 - 6 rods surrounding a tower driven to a depth exceeding the foundation depth and bonded with 6 ga. or larger copper is sufficient for a modest tower in average soil conditions, more never hurt.



Cables should be bonded immediately before they turn and leave the tower, and should be grounded to a point that is isolated from the tower at the ground point and grounded with a seperate large ground to the lowest ground take off for the tower. Again it is to seperate the most current flow off off the down conductors.



Cables should be bonded where they enter the building, again with an isolated bar that is grounded to the tower ground system, always downward.



All equipment in the building, including electrical panels and phone protection should be grounded to this building entry point. Do not use a ring ground in a building unless the ring is grounded only at this one point. Grounding to rods or water pipes allows current to flow from the struck tower, through the cables, through the radio equipment and out through the stray grounds. Current flow kills, not electric potential.



Think of your ground system as a you would an electric circuit. You can grab a high voltage line and not be shocked as long as you touch in only one point and there is no current flow. Raising your equipment to a million volts will do no harm as long as all the equipment rises together at the same level and time.



Use lightning arrestors, gas tubes and spark gaps wherever appropriate, always grounding to the common ground bond.



You are not preventing lightning strikes with grounding, you are just controlling the current flow as best as possible. My commercial towers are flashed 300 - 400 times a year, and struck with a signifigant hit 50 - 100 times a year with no damage due to good control of strike current. The only damage that ever occurs is when antennas are directly struck.



And as to amount of Concrete, they are all engineered to signifigant safety factors from many, many factors. Tower girth is just one of them.



Good luck, and no, I'm not a ham anymore, Extra Class expired in 1982, no desire to play radio since I work this for a living.



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