Re-installing the KDP?

[sparks57]

Ok, I'm sure most of you know that I was fortunate enough to loose my KDP while stuck pointed downhill while offroading, and therefore no damage was done (as far as I can tell, but I haven't opened up the engine, the pin was pretty well beat up though )



Anyways, should I install a new one and tab it?



I've brought this up before, but never really got any definative answers.

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

yes, and if you use a tab it must be stepped as the case is thicker around the pin. You should clean the hole and pin and install with green loctite.

 

[sparks57]

Sounds good, thanks Joseph!

 

[dpuckett]

Question:

why do you need to reinstall it? I'm not doubting your judgement, just wondering why. I figured if I was lucky enough to have mine fall out and not take anything with it, I'd leave it out.

Daniel

 

[Ncostello]

The pin must be installed to maintain exact alignment of the case. Remember the case is also the mount for the injector pump and any movement at all in the case will transfer over to the pump and possible alter its timing. Thats what I believe anyway.



There are old cases, bossed old cases, and bossed improved cases.



Old style cases do not have the stepped pin bore... yet are not bossed or raised around the pin bore opening (or hole). The flat tab works great here.



Later the pin bore area was reinforced or "bossed" and a flat tab will not work unless its shaped to follow the contour of the bossed area.



Improved cases are bossed or reinforced around the pin bore opening... and have that all important ridge around the circumference of the bore ID. It is a very slight ridge on the ID. . almost unnoticable unless you use a scratch awl to feel it. Yet it is completely sufficient.



For trucks that have the non-improved, bossed cases I prefer tapping the pin into place, "staking" or punching a heavy burr in the bore with a pointy yet blunt punch then applying green wicking loc-tite. That too will stop it "dead".

 

[LV-CTD]

CB, Joe Donnelly did my dowel pin with the drill jig. There should be someone in the NWBombers that will have access to a jig and might help. While the tab will work, the bolt used in the jig method may be easier and possibly stronger than the tab in the event that another episode of offroading caused the pin to reemerge from it's hole. And make sure that while you're in there, which ever method you end up using, to remove, clean, loctite and retorque your timing case bolts too, at least the ones you can get out, the other one just retorque. My dowel pin was about half way out and most of the bolts were a little loose although not in any iminent danger of falling out, but I've only got 49k on the clock.



Tom

 

[MUDDY]

cb,

when ya come over for dynoday may 15 lets re-install and retain with the jig fix

 

[sparks57]

Sounds good!

 

[JLEONARD]

Well, if you're going to re-install it, you will already have the cover off... correct?

Then why would you retain with the jig fix method as opposed to tabbing or simply staking in place ?... since your in the case already.

Jay

 

[sparks57]

Hmm... well... while I'm in the case I might as well get a new one and install a cam!



I'm pretty sure my case is cracked... or so I think. I have this odd oil leak up front. Hopefully it's just a seal and not the infamouse case crack.

 

[MUDDY]

jay,

the jig fix retains just as well at the tab and u dont gotta buy the tab



chris, pick up a seal. lez hope ya dont have a cracked case. better thouroughly inspect beforehand. i dont know how one cld be lucky enuff to loose a kdp and NOT end up w/ crckd case

 

[Hunter4x4]

KDP Question while we're on the topic: Is there any posts or links with some decent 1st Gen pics of the whole preventive repair process?



Thanks!

 

[paccool]

Well I finally got the KDP fixed. Got the truck back together last night. Took the cover off and staked the pin in place and put some penetrating locktite in the hole around the pin. The pin was only out less than 1/8" from the bottom.



Replaced the leaking front seal. For anyone who cares, here are the part numbers for the seal kit from both Cummins as well as Dodge. (don't ask why I have both, its a long story! )



Cummins PN 3804899 cost $28



Dodge PN 05012290AA cost $42



I think these are the same for all first gens but am not sure.



The seal is a heck of a lot easier to install with the cover on a flat surface than when its in the truck. Cost me $42 to find that out.

 

[JLEONARD]

Took the cover off and staked the pin in place and put some penetrating locktite in the hole around the pin.

CB...

This is how I would fix mine positively if I had the cover off... . I would not buy a tab kit. Staking is free and a decent stake will retain the pin just as effectively IMHO.

If I had the loctite I'd use it, but would not go crazy trying to get some...

Jay

 

[hbowers]

KDP and bolts

CB, I would bet you have a cracked or broken case.

the pin can't get thru without breaking it. (IMO)

if I were you I would take off the cover and if the case

isn't broke I would reinstall the dowell pin and stake it

good. the case is thick enough to do that. the pin will be

recessed about 1/4 inch. then I would take out the 4 bolts

that you can get out,clean them and the holes and loctite

them. the 5th bolt you can loosen some and put some green

wicking loctite onit too. I learned just recently that one of the

bolts is more apt or just as apt to fall out as the KDP.

I have a 92 in my shop right now that done just that. the

lower bolt(inside case) on passenger side fell out and broke

the camshaft, bent half the push rods, and some lifters, and

I don't know what else yet. it done major damage. I would

rather have a dowell pin fall out . I was able to fish the bolt

out w/magnet. (the dowell pin was still in and seated)

this truck has 234k miles. hbowers

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

When the pushrods bend, thge valves are tweaked and you need to do a valve job and be sure none are bent noticeably.

 

[sparks57]

Hmmm... I don't know what's going on. The timing case has been leaking somehow, cracked or otherwise, since I got the truck.



The KDP ended up in my oil pan, stuck to the drain plug. The truck runs strong and fine as ever. I have a feeling I would notice if something grendaded inside my engine.

 

[BushWakr - RIP]

C_B,



There are a couple levels of "malfunction" when it comes to the KDP.

If you are incredibly lucky you will suffer only mild case damage... more often than not though, it is significant.

If you have "always had" some leakage then you should eliminate the vacuum pump/gear case gasket as a leak source. Once you've done that, the next likely item is the gear case damage that a KDP can do.



If you find that it is the case, and that it is not too nasty perhaps you can have it tig welded and repaired. Still, if it is leaking, you should remember that while oil can leak out, other stuff can "potentially" leak IN...



I sure hope we can get you all squared away and eliminate your problems.

These old trucks can be a great toy if they are repaired, and maintained properly.



Pastor Bob... .



OH BTW... JOE. . do you have any thoughts on C_B's problems with his no run condition he has posted on?????

 

[hbowers]

CB, nothing has grenaded inside your engine yet.

if you're coming to meridian for the dyno day on the 15th.

I will be there and if you want we can look at the situation

and decide what to do. we need to take your cover off and

fix those bolts for sure. hbowers

 

[sparks57]

Thanks, hopefully I'll be there.