Rear end sag with load

[Fireman]

OOPS!

When these threads get so long, I forget some of the details by the time I get to page 3.



Sorry 'bout that,



Fireman

 

[SilverFox]

Hunter1,



I have Timbrens on my truck and am removing them because of the extremely harsh ride. I also pull a trailer and am heavily loaded with the same general stuff that you apparently haul, a lot of which I never unload. I also carry a 240 lb. boat on top of my A. R. E. topper and have a 70 gallon in bed fuel tank. My trailer tongue weight is 1400 lbs. Before I installed the Timbrens I had the same sag that you mention. Let me say here that my truck never bottomed out in this configuration and the ride was very good.



After I installed the Timbrens the rear of my truck was about 1 inch higher but the ride is absolutely unacceptable, at least to me. I think Timbrens work much better when the trailer is further forward like a 5th wheel and the bed is relatively empty. I wonder how many guys are happy with Timbrens and a pull behind trailer...

 

[Hunter1]

Wow!



Thanks SilverFox, Sounds like you and I have the same type of configuration, the only difference is you have a DRW and I have an SRW. I don't believe that makes that much difference.



Now, I am wondering what to do?



Should I go with a 2" lift?



Thanks so much for the info



Hunter1

 

[Fireman]

Tell him Fox

Tell him what you would do.



Fireman

 

[SilverFox]

Fireman says tell him!

Hunter1,



I really can't tell you what to do but I'm good at offering advise on just about anything. May not always be good advice though.



I can think of 3 things you could do and still keep a good ride, maybe even improve it with 2 of the choices.



You could have a Kelderman 4 link system put on. This is what I'm doing and will get rid of your springs entirely. Will also automatically keep your truck level form side to side as well as keep it at whatever level you choose even while adding weight.



For a lot less money you could install Firestone Air Bags. If you are on a tight budget this will maintain your good factory ride and keep your truck at the height you choose.



You could go to a good spring shop and have a leaf added. This might be the cheapest but your ride might suffer. I haven't read very much about adding springs but I know it will work.



My thinking on a 2 inch rear lift is the truck will look like heck when unloaded, way too high in back.



Let us know what you end up doing.

 

[Bill Littlefield]

First load with 19.5" wheels

Task125 asked me to post this picture for him. I'll include the text he sent.



Just tried my first load with 19. 5s. Very nice ride. I need to find out how much a pallet of quarry stone weighs. I'm thinking of going with Timbrens or a 1" add a leaf.



Task125

 

[MaxTorque]

I have owned 4 Dodge 3500 diesels and currently have a 2003. They have all squatted like a female dog taking a pee which I hated. In addition they would bounce like a rubber ball with a load, not to mention the headlights shined at the moon rather than the road. I know that some of you have installed airbags but for me they were a disaster. On my 96 I simply had had them

add some springs to the main springs. That resulted in to stiff a ride. On my 98 and 01 I had auxillary springs installed below the main spring pack. They are designed to not engage until your main springs deflect 1 to 11/2 inches. Those work really well. For my 03 I did the same thing with some variations. In addition to the auxilliary springs I installed another leaf in the overloads. However there is so much space for the springs to travel in the 03 that I took the frame support off the

frame and installed about 2 ins. of hard rubber to the mount to reduce the travel distancebefore the overload springs engage. The travel distance to engage the overloads is reduced to about 1 1/2 ins. The trick is to reduce the squat w/o empairing the ride. A very good local spring shop is UNIVERSAL FLEET N W. ph18003222874.

 

[Task125]

Thanks bill,I think I will go with the 1" add a leaf. did the same on my 98. 5 did not ride to bad. anyone know if there is an add a leaf kit out yet?

 

[Dean Upson]

Just out of curiosity, I took the Timbrens off the truck and put the factory jounce rubbers back on (a ten minute job) and hooked up the trailer, the truck squatted like the dog in the previous post. It didn't take long for me to realize that I wanted them back on. I would say to those who normally carry a heavy load such as a large toolbox, etc. and are unhappy with the non-towing ride to call Timbren and get a lighter spring. Personally, I would just take the Timbren off and use it towing. It only takes a few minutes to make the switch, two 15mm bolts on each side. Very easy .



Dean

 

[MaxTorque]

If all that you want to do is add a leaf go to your friendly junk yard and get a spring leaf. However be forewarned it will really make your ride harsh w/o a load. If you are going to put much of a load on the 2003 it will take more than one leaf to get rid of the squat. The squat on the 2003 is much greater than any of the previous years in my experience.

 

[Hunter1]

First Dodge I have owned Max, but, mine squats like the Charmin Bear



Hunter1

 

[Hunter1]

But, as a footnote, it is also the very best truck I have owned. Had Fords, trouble, good thing for extended warranty, a 1976 Chev 4x4 was good, but so far the Dodge is the most comfortable all around, and has the towability I need.



Just need to resolve this one issue, the right way for me, thanks all for the good ideas, still mulling these things over, nothing looks right for me yet except a 2" rise front and back



Hunter1

 

[Bill Littlefield]

Overload engagement

MaxTorque,



I think you've got the answer. Having looked at mine for a while and ponder a solution, I agree with you that the big problem is how much the truck has to squat before the overload springs are engaged. I think that modifying the overload engagement bracket is what I need to do. It should maintain the factory ride and reduce the squat. It should also be reversible if I don't like it (assuming I do it right). Could you provide more specific info on how you did yours and what you used for a rubber compound? You can PM me if you like.



I put airbags on my last truck. They worked very well for me because they gave me the adjustability I wanted. I hear that others have had problems with them, mostly leaks. I didn't. Just add a little air and your ready for any size load you want without any squat at all. I'm not too crazy about drilling the frame to install a set on my '03. Besides, something that is automatic (ie doesn't need adjusted every time the load is changed) is better IMHO.

 

[ray1933]

Timbrens

Dean



I got my timbrens and I was going to install them and they will be in contact all the time, looks like it will give a lot stiffer ride. Have not put them on. I emailed Timbrens and asked them about it. I love the ride the way it is but with the camper and then the long extension bumper and the horse trailer it does need some help but sure do not want to screw up the ride when it is empty.



I can see that they are very easy to install so as you said one could put them on in about 15 to 20 mins when the camper was going to be carried. But it would be nicer if that was not the case.

 

[Hunter1]

I spent an hour at my local Les Schwab Tire Center today, they do all kinds of upgrades on all kinds of trucks.



I found this out:



#1: As far as they know there is not an "add a spring kit" available as instead of one bolt thru the spring group, the Dodge 2003 has 3 bolts.



#2: They can do a 2" lift for about $200, but it will lift the rear like 5 1/2" more than the front :-(



#3: They totally recommend the Firestone air bag kit, it is made especially heavy duty for the 2003 and is a NO DRILL application, totally bolt onto the truck to maintain warranty etc.



Looks like my only viable option is to go with the air bags, gotta go back to the beginning and read the air bag comments, for some reason I did not want to go with them, but they are totally for them and the installer said that in Bend, Or. where he transferred from, there are a lot of Ford Super Duty trucks sold and he spent almost every day installing a set of air bags on the Super Dutys with no problems listed.



Sigh, getting worn down with ideas and ready to spend the bucks for the air bags, hope it is the best idea



Hunter1

 

[ray1933]

Air Bags

Hunter 1



I had air bags on the 51 and the 95 both 3/4 tons and never had a problem. they were great but wanted to get by with out any type over overloads , that is why I got 1 ton in the 03.

That is the only thing I'm unhappy with about 03.



if the Timbrens are going to stiffen up the ride empty I will return them and go with air bags unless someone comes up with

a better solution.

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

Re: Overload engagement

Originally posted by Bill Littlefield

. . . I agree with you that the big problem is how much the truck has to squat before the overload springs are engaged. I think that modifying the overload engagement bracket is what I need to do. It should maintain the factory ride and reduce the squat.

Bill, just one thing to keep in mind. On my truck when the overloads contact there is a noticeable "thump" which may be OK occasionally, but could get annoying if they are frequent. If you bring the engagement points closer they will make contact much more often. Did you notice any bumping with your load of slate? I had a 8800 lb load plus at least 1000 lbs in the bed last Thursday and my overloades bumped often and was noticeable but not too offensive.



If I hauled heavy often I'd be interested in airbags, which would eliminate any conact noise/vibration which I am wondering may be felt with the Timbrens as well. What appeals to me is smooth increased strength, not a sudden rise.



Vaughn

 

[SRadke]

I still believe airbags to be a great option but I'm not happy with how the kits for the 03's have been designed. They just don't have enough axle travel IMHO.

-Scott

 

[MMeier]

Will anyones airbags work if you are running the "clamp on " style 5'er and GN hitch set up like a lot of us are??

 

[Mopar_Mudder]

Originally posted by SRadke

I still believe airbags to be a great option but I'm not happy with how the kits for the 03's have been designed. They just don't have enough axle travel IMHO.

-Scott

Yep I am proof of that, I sent mine back for a refund that I will hopefully get.



Ant to answer the mount question yes the Air Lift Bags work with the clamp on hitches, that is what I tried.



Also looked at the Firestone that someone mensioned and they mount basically the same as the Air Lift so you would have the same limited axle travel problem.