2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission Repairs for the DEATH WOBBLE

[SteveH]

My 3500 starts a bucking motion coming in at 82 mph and continues till the governor kicks in. Anywhere in between 82 and top end the truck starts violently bucking but the steering wheel is perfectly calm. The bucking will throw things out of the jockey box; it progressively gets worse when it starts. I can get it to do this anytime I want (why would I want to?). I can also power through this bucking and it does not occur until I let off the fuel. It also stops and will not buck when going through any turn. Evern a very small bump in the road at 82 will trigger this. Had the tires balanced today, no difference. The track bar is very tight, and is only about a month old. Mechanic said today that ball joints were ok, track bar was ok, stabilizer shock "seemed" ok to him. Guess we'll do some more on it early next week.

Steve H

 

[jponder]

change name from death wobble to Helacious harmonic wheel hop

We should call this the helacious harmonic wheel hop. It feels to me like the wheel starts hoping up and down and just keeps getting more and more intense. I dont think it is going side to side instead i think it is hoping up and down. I dont know because I havent seen it just felt it and it is spooky

John Ponder

 

[Ted Jannetty]

Actually it is more like a bad wheel on a shopping cart.

when one gets bent and the caster is reduced it will wobble violently.

 

[jponder]

Originally posted by Ted Jannetty

Actually it is more like a bad wheel on a shopping cart.

when one gets bent and the caster is reduced it will wobble violently.

Okay but that motion is sid to side right? Mine feels like it is going staright up and down like it starts to hop uncontollably, but noe being able to see it I cant say for sure. I have learned to swerve and let off the throttle where I dont get it anymore

 

[nps]

What Ted said. Think everyone should look at the caster because masking the symptoms doesn't solve the problem.



When you get the wheel into the 'neutral zone' anything can set it to hopping, shaking, bouncing, vibrating - all depends on what other worn part provides the path of least resistance.



Caster puts positive and consistent pressure on the wheel assembly and keeps it far away from the 'neutral zone'. You lift the front end and you pull the wheel back. You hit a small bump and you pull it back farther, allowing the gremlins to start finding the path of least resistance to sustained ocsillations.



Most alignment shops have gotten so used to front struts they don't even know how to set anything other than toe-in/out.



Neil

 

[Ted Jannetty]

Did you ever feel the vibration that comes from the shopping cart wheel that has the death wobble?

It also vibrates up and down.

 

[SteveH]

Refer to my previous post on problems. My truck doesn't have any lift kit at all, this is all stock. The mechanic hung out the window on our test drive the other day and could not see any wheel movement when the bucking was going on. DC is going to put new stabilizer shocks, and 4 new shocks on it next Thurs. under warranty. Do all 4x4 1 tons have 2 stabilizer shocks in the front. One of them looks like an add-on. I bought the truck new and never noticed until this week that there are 2 of these stabilizers.

Steve H

 

[nps]

Steve H,



Has the dealer checked the caster? Lifting only makes the caster a more probable cause because lifting will change it for the worse. The lack of a lift does not eliminate mis-alignment.

 

[Ted Jannetty]

I have repaired many trucks with the Death wobble, not just Dodge.

Every time it is an alignment problem the majority being the caster.

 

[BPINE]

Hey Ted what do you recommend for a caster, how many degrees? I tried the DT track bar and it didn't help at all, I rolled as much caster in as I could 1 degree at a time and that didn't help. Everything else looks good and tight what's next the wife and Cliffman don't want to ride in the Red Sled anymore untill I fix it. I am not one of those guys that throughs parts at something untill it's fixed but I am running out of options. This thing is bad and needs to be fixed.

 

[Bigramguy]

Check the control arm bolts and the bushings. We have seen several that the bolts looked tight,but upon removal you could see where it was moving,it will wear the frame,and the centre sleeve in the bushing. Wish i had my digital cam here as we have on here now that the frame mount hole is badly worn oblong,almost an inch long,and it was hidden by the bolt. We ended up having to weld two grade 8 washers on the frame to fix it,as well as replacing the bushings and bolts. Check em to be sure,if in doubt pull the bolts and look,one at a time,so the axle stays in line. Just bouncing the truck,or turning the wheels will not always show this. It does affect caster as well,which makes the death wobble worse. They will also sometimes make a knocking noise over bumps,but not always. It's worth a look.

 

[Ted Jannetty]

Have you had it on a front end alignment rack and actually measured it?

I would recommend as much as you can get out of it, with a 1/2 degree more on the pass side, for road crown.

3 to 5 degrees seems to work well.

Some times you can only get 1. 5, this will require a longer lower control arm to give more adjustment.

Some of the lift kit manufacturers offer longer control arms or offset mounting brakets to make up the difference.

Of coarse when you call them they play dumb since they don't want to let out there secrets, so you have to buy a whole kit.



Ted Jannetty

 

[MidwestMotorman]

wobble woes

The death wobble is a problem with any brand of vehicle, but a 4x4 will show it harshly. Cupped tires, out of balance tires, and bad tires start the process. , and that can happen at any speed. The wobble caused passes through the steering components, usually causing the wobble to start on the other side as well. If the steering is tight, you really won't notice it (other than feeling a little vibration), but as soon as the steering components wear, you will see it.



Bad steering and track bars allow the wobble to be noticed. The ball joints are supposed to have a certain about of drag (I think 25 ft lbs) when turning the steering knuckle or hub. The ball joints can have no lateral or vertical play, but if they can be worn enough to not have the drag, the knuckle will bounce and wobble with the tire. And once something starts to wobble with enough force, the whole vehicle will echo that movement.



I test drove a 94 ram 3500 diesel with enough wobble to throw it off of the road at 25 mph. The front end, bodywise, would lift 12 inches from side to side too.

 

[SteveH]

Re: wobble woes

Originally posted by nathanbush

The death wobble is a problem with any brand of vehicle, but a 4x4 will show it harshly. Cupped tires, out of balance tires, and bad tires start the process. , and that can happen at any speed. The wobble caused passes through the steering components, usually causing the wobble to start on the other side as well. If the steering is tight, you really won't notice it (other than feeling a little vibration), but as soon as the steering components wear, you will see it.



I respectfully disagree with you in that it is a problem with any brand and your diagnosis on what starts the process. I do not have any cupped tires, out of balance tires) rotated and balanced every 5k miles), or bad tires. I have had many 4x4's in my 40 years of driving and have never had nor talked to anyone with this particular type of problem before. When the bucking starts, the steering wheel is perfectly still, like the most beautiful ride you have ever been on. Out of balance tires will not allow the steering wheel to stay perfectly still. My entire steering column from bottom to top has been replaced this month, you cannot get much tighter components than that. I think the problem you describe is definitely not the same as we've been discussing here.

Steve H.

 

[NVR FNSH]

Do a search on my user name and you should find plenty of info on this problem - I had it on a '96 2500 4wd w/360 V8. DC replaced the track bar, steering stabilizer, added the second stabilizer, replaced all four control arms, all four ball joints & both hubs & rotors - did not fix the problem. From what I could tell they never checked the alignment - control arm eccentrics were marked w/grease pencil after the control arms were replaced. I added 1 hash mark of caster and the problem went away.



Brian

 

[MidwestMotorman]

wobble woes II

Steve H



The caster causing the wobble would be something I am unfamiliar with. I have an 83 Chevy K30 (leaf springs) that will wobble almost as bad as that 94 Ram in my example. The steering wheel did not shake in either case, but it is had to tell when each side of the truck is lifting several inches as the front end is rocking and slamming side to side. I know the tie-rod ends allow a lot of play.



The wobble I experienced happens right at 25-30 mph in each case. You can power through and avoid the wobble with higher speed. I have driven lots of vehicles with bad tires, out of round tires, bad suspensions, etc but have only seen the wobble with the four bys. I have not seen any on the broncos with the coil spring suspensions.



I do not know what kinds of other wobble are mentioned in the other posts. I do know that true balanced tires cured the wobble on the K30, but an out of balanced one will start the wobble again. The wobble with my experiences has been caused by tire problems causing the hard steering components to vibrate violently with them. Perhaps an off-caster problem aggravates the wobbles in my cases??? One would probably have to have a physics degree and a video tape of a wobbling truck to explain it.

 

[**ICEMAN**]

i posted about the wobble a good while back. i had just installed the 2" leveling kit and thought that was the problem. at the time the lift was installed i had fairly new ball joints,trak bar,steering stabilizer and shocks. i finally got it aligned and had the caster set to the positive side and i cant make it wobble on the bumps that would set it off before.

 

[SteveH]

Just a quick update. The traction bar was replaced on mine several weeks ago. Today they replaced all four shocks and both the steering stabilizer shocks. It did not affect the wobbling at 85 mph at all. Tires were checked again today using the high speed balancer with tires left on the vehicle, tires were balanced perfectly. DC Star group was called and advised they had seen this before once where the springs had started to fatigue in the rear, changing the angle on the drive line, then setting up a harmonic distortion at higher speeds. (making the drive line try to spin in an oval instead on simply rotating. ) They are going to measure angles and may shim where the rear driveline bearings are located to change this angle if it isn't within DC specs. Bottom line: still got the wobbles.

Steve H

 

[MidwestMotorman]

wobbles

Steve---If D-C says they think the wobble is caused by the weak rear springs, then why don't all of the people that tow or haul something experience it when loaded? Towing or hauling would lower the rear. Believably, enough weight could hold the rear down and prevent the wild hopping, but carrying a few hundred pounds would in the bed would load the suspension lower in the rear.



Could people with a tracking problem be more prone to this? Or people with one axle offset to the side? It seems to be a wide variance of fixes, and lots of other factors are involved. I have seen it at 25mph on two very different styles of truck, others see it at 75-85mph, the majority have it on 4 bys and a report of some on two wheel drives. Others have sloppy suspensions with the wobble with others having tight suspensions/steering.



Thoughts:

Has anyone seen this on a half ton? Seems like 3/4 and one ton at the moment. The harsher suspensions would rebound quickly causing bouncing and less absorption of impact. Stiffer frames would not absorb the vibrations either.



Any other thoughts?

 

[nps]

Steve H,



I asked the question earlier and checked your posts - no answer. Has the caster been checked? (not the alignment - specifically the caster).



Know it sounds obvious given all the other things you've been through on your truck but...