Salvage of Engine & Transmission post-fire

[MSkyrman]

Hello all,

My beloved 2003 was totalled about a month ago in an explosive fire at a body shop - my truck was in for some relatively minor body work after hitting a deer and I ended up losing the entire thing... just bad luck I guess. Kind of heartbreaking really, all too easy to get attached to these great trucks, not to mention the money invested that cannot be recouped.



Turns out the fire was due to a Ford F150 two bays down from my truck - this is the F150 speed control switch issue (check out youtube, consumeraffairs.com, etc. if you're interested). Ford has p. o. 'd a whole bunch of folks over this and sticks their head in the sand despite years of issues without fixing it for good. So much for "Ford tough". Body shop was not at fault.



As you can imagine, a big mess with lots of insurance companies/attorneys involved with totalling about 12 vehicles. I have been offered a lump sum of course and upon asking, a somewhat smaller sum if I choose to retain the vehicle as salvage. Keeping my options open, and knowing that this would be a parts vehicle, I would like to know any opinions on whether the Cummins (w/ 157,500 miles) or my 2-yr old Goerrend 48RE transmission (triple disc, billet, flex plate, w/ 30,000 miles on it) would have any value post-fire... the transmission set me back $6000 including the install two years ago. I have not looked under the hood (plan to do that today), but I can tell you the fire was hot enough to blister/crack the paint on the hood, melt some of the plastic on the side mirrors, front bumper, and blister the windshield glass. As In mentioned, my truck was two bays down from the Ford that incinerated. Any point in pursuing salvaging the engine and transmission? I was thinking it's kind of a crapshoot not knowing exactly how hot the fire got, etc. I'm not sure exactly how it would damage an engine/transmission.



Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Just trying to make the best financial decision. Thanks

 

[Prairie Dog]

Sorry to hear that, especially about a nice low mileage 03 - perhaps the best DC ever built.

 

[RustyJC]

Even if the fire didn't generate enough under-hood heat to oxidize aluminum and warp cast iron, anything with "plastic" parts or non-metallic elastomer sealing elements is going to be questionable as well as any electronics and wiring (melted insulation in harnesses, melted/distorted plugs, motherboards, solder joints and circuits, electronic chips and components such as resistors and capacitors, etc. )



Good luck!



Rusty

 

[rashwor]

Bummer and I am really sorry for your bad luck. This is really proof the poop happens.



I'm with Rusty. I wouldn't trust any of the electronics... that's a lot of heat. I would push to maximize the money on the complete truck and move on.

 

[cerberusiam]

If the heat did not melt the VC and other parts on the engine and\or the plastic sensors and pieces on the trans its likely the rolling chassis worth retaining. The trans can be freshened for a lot less than building a new one and may be fine with a fluid change. Same with the engine, all the external pieces likely need replaced but internally unless there is severe signs of scorching on the block its likely good.



If it was just heat applied to the body up high and no fire actually on or under the truck itself it might bode well for the hard parts.

 

[rscurtis]

Having had experience with a building fire that contained a lot of equipment, I wouldn't give up on your engine too easily. You would be surprised what can survive a fire. You probably had a situation where the truck was in a broiler- heated from the top. Water will do more damage than the fire did. As you get closer to the ground, the heat is mitigated. Keep in mind also that some of these components run at elevated temperatures in normal operation.

 

[S.Morris]

I would investigate things a little closer. As rscurtis says, the broiler effect may have left under sheet metal wiring etc better off than you think.



If the salvage is reasonable enough to take a chance on transmission, you might come out ahead.

 

[PWirth]

I had an engine bay fire with an '83 Ford F250 with a 460 engine when I was in college. The fire department hosed down the engine compartment after the gasoline in the carb had been burning for a while. I ended up buying a new carburetor and alternator. Found a scrapped F150 across the street for $200 and salvaged the wiring, fenders and hood from it. I had to yank the heads off because there was water in the cylinders from the fire engine. Cleaned it all up, painted the engine, and it fired up and ran. I kept it for a couple more years until I traded it in on a 1970 Dodge Dart Swinger 340.

Bottom line: I think that you can come out ahead on keeping the truck and either parting it out or rebuilding it. A used 2003 engine should go for $4000 to $5000 and the transmission should be worth about the same. I expect the insurance company will offer you $20000 and the buy back will be 10 to 20 percent, so even at 20% that would be $4000. So you could get the money, buy a new truck, sell the old engine to some poor Ford owner, put your Goerend transmission in the new truck, sell the new transmission to the same poor Ford owner ... . You get the drift. If the fire didn't burn through the hood and the truck itself didn't burn I think it will be recoverable.

 

[Prairie Dog]

Hows the rest of the truck? Interior parts usable?

 

[leaky gasket]

Can we see some pics?

 

[JJPage]

1970 Dodge Dart Swinger 340[/QUOTE



PWirth, I owned one of these, it was plum crazy, twin hood scoops, squirrely little sucker! Traded my 68 formula S for it, the 70 340 was much stronger than the 68. Sorry OP for the hijack.

 

[MSkyrman]

I would investigate things a little closer. As rscurtis says, the broiler effect may have left under sheet metal wiring etc better off than you think.



If the salvage is reasonable enough to take a chance on transmission, you might come out ahead.

I think I just might coax my mechanic (sharp guy) to take a ride over with me to examine the truck and get his opinion - he'd probably be willing to help me drop out the transmission and engine if they're worth salvaging. It seems like there is some potential here. I'll be sure and take some photos while I'm there. Thanks all for your input - I'll update when I have some more info.

 

[pjorlando]

Having been a career Firefighter and a mechanic, I would think the mechanical parts, engine, trans, rolling chasis, are all okay. I've had a few burn repairs to fix over the years, and can not remember any one needing new engines or trannys. Most cases, the wiring, plastics, and trim get toasted. The insurance company will offer bottom dollar, after all, they are greedy and are out to make shareholders money. Keep your rig, part her out if it can't be repaired, I'm pretty certain you can recoup the difference they are offering you if you keep the truck... Good luck. .

 

[jhenderson]

pwirth. Where the he'll did you come up with $ 20,000 for an ins value. Book on trade is $ 11,500. Private party is only $15,000. Do a little research before you inflate someone's hopes.

 

[BrianJ]

pwirth. Where the he'll did you come up with $ 20,000 for an ins value. Book on trade is $ 11,500. Private party is only $15,000. Do a little research before you inflate someone's hopes.

Guess you need to check your numbers too... per NADA, clean trade is $14,125 and clean retail is $17,700. KBB is $17,615 dealer retail. (AFAIK dealer retail should be the basis for replacement value, less deductible).

 

[PWirth]

jjpage: Yeah, I really like my Dart. I need to paint it again this year, a few rust bubbles have broken through, but it is sure fun to drive.

jhenderson: Insurance companies need to pay for retail value of the truck, you are not going to get a replacement vehicle for the trade in value. If you have receipts for recent upgrades you can sometimes also get them to cover that value as well. For example, if you had just put a $8000 flat bed on the truck and had the receipt for it then that would be added to the value of the untouched truck. That value may also push it outside of getting totaled. I have seen a couple of 2003 trucks sell near me recently for between $19000 and $20000 dollars so I had rounded to the easy $20000 dollars for the rest of the example. I have been involved with over 6 totaled vehicle incidents with my family (it is a big family and we drive a lot of miles) and was just speaking from my experience. We bought back 3 of the 6 vehicles and rebuilt them. The buy back values were always calculated as a percentage of the vehicle value as well. That is where we came out ahead, the drivetrain value was greater than the buy-back percentage of the total vehicle value. Now, these comments are based on occurrences in Montana and state law may drive differences in the way the insurance companies act.

 

[Prairie Dog]

I don't think the $8K would be added to the value by an ins company. To cover something extra like that, or like my canopy, you have to pay for an additional rider. At least that has been my experience in dealing with them over the last 35 years.