Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Sick truck !!!!

[Sticks]

The only other upgrade I can see he would need is put the block mounted LP back on in addition to the in tank pump and a couple of gauges (FP and EGT), and even then the block LP I'd insist on even if he stayed stock. The in tank LP is a joke as a standalone, but makes a great pre pump.

 

[Lease]

How would you wire the block lift pump in to the system? The in tank conversion kit came with a jumper wire and relay to add electric to the fuel tank. It plugged into the plug that powered the block lift pump. Any ideas?

 

[cerberusiam]

Now that you opened the door, please explain how an electronic scan tool is turning off a mechanical jerk pump cylinder by cylinder.

The in tank LP is a joke as a standalone, but makes a great pre pump.

The in-tank is way beyond better than the cannister mounted pump. Its been proven to handle twice the HP the 2nd gens make for a lot longer than any other solution. Far from a joke when they go 400k consistently.







Injectors go bad, or, the VP goes bad and spits pieces into the injector and then dies later. About all you can do is verify you have good pressure to the IP and go from there. Chekc that first before worrying about the in-tank pump.



Just don't be surprised if down the line the VP starts acting up.

 

[Sticks]

Now that you opened the door, please explain how an electronic scan tool is turning off a mechanical jerk pump cylinder by cylinder.

I am not a VP44 specialist, I do not have knowledge of the inner workings and programming of the DRBIII or the PCM, so I don't know exactly how it works, but I have used it and it does. I can speculate that the DRBIII can send a command to the PCM to momentarily "turn off" the fuel delivery every time the engine senses when the desired cylinder is supposed to get injection based on data sent to the PCM from the crank, cam, and injection pump position sensors. you can continue to turn off individual cylinders until the engine either dies or manages to run on 1. Also have done that with the DRBIII.

The in-tank is way beyond better than the cannister mounted pump. Its been proven to handle twice the HP the 2nd gens make for a lot longer than any other solution. Far from a joke when they go 400k consistently.

3rd gens (common rail) had the canister mounted pump, that proved to be problematic during the first couple of years, so the in tank pump was implemented and was enough to supply the Common Rail fuel pump. The 2nd gens did not have a canister mounted pump. It was block mounted below the fuel filter canisters and farther towards the rear.



In my paltry 3 years working in a shop where 95%+ of the work that I did was on the big three diesel pickups, I can safely say that I know what I am talking about regarding fuel supply requirements to the Dodge 98. 5 - 2002 Cummins powered pickups (and a few commuter buses). I know what works, and what does not. The in tank pump on a 2nd gen was a placating fix from DC to the high failure rate of the Carter block mounted pump. I have done enough trucks that went to the dealer repeatedly with poor engine operation, and a P0216 code, and the dealers fix was the in tank pump. The customer brings it to the shop where I worked, we installed the block mounted pump back into the system in addition to the tank pump, get the 22-25psi idle, and 17-20psi WOT no load. The P0216 code goes away, the truck runs great, and the customer is satisfied. I know this because several months later the same truck comes back for us to do other work and the fuel system is still fine.



DC's claim of flow not pressure is also incorrect. This is why Cummins never took a stance on that issue. From the Mouth of BOSCH - "The VP44 on the Dodge Cummins engine must have at all times, no less than 10psi fuel pressure with stock fuel lines. "



I have done the DC flow measuring test and have worked on trucks that the pressure dropped to >2psi, met the flow specs and still threw the P0216 code and ran like crap. Correct the fuel supply issue, and the truck runs fine, no codes.



Customer is informed that it is possible that the VP44 has suffered some damage due to the low fuel pressure, and to please bring it back if the symptoms return and we waive the diagnostic fee on the next visit.



BTW - the shop that I worked at was a BOSCH and a variety of other fuel injection manufacturers authorized warranty and rebuild center. We had a dedicated fuel shop that did nothing but rebuild, calibrate and test injection pumps, injectors, and turbos. We supplied the dealers in the area with their reman VP44s and other injection pumps.

 

[cerberusiam]

The customer brings it to the shop where I worked, we installed the block mounted pump back into the system in addition to the tank pump, get the 22-25psi idle, and 17-20psi WOT no load.

What will the in-tank pump hold for pressure by itself in the VP systems? Have you ever checked that? Wondering if the lines, fittings, etc, are the difference.



The in-tank pump seems to be capable of holding over 20 psi if one goes in and tweaks the pump pickup to actually push fuel instead of dump the bulk of it back to the cannister.



Curious whether the 2nd gen install made any changes over the 3rd gen implementation. The couple trucks I am familiar with that had the retro done are fine, no issues with codes and good power, so am wondering if this is just an install thing or something else that is going on.





Thanks for the info on the cylinder dropping. I thought it was possible but was told it doesn't work correctly. Wanted to know if it was a reliable diagnostic tool and how it was implemented.

 

[Lease]

The scan tool my buddy used to do the injector test was the DBR III from the dealership that he works at. Got the truck back late yesterday everything seem to be back to normal.

 

[ALepley]

Now that you opened the door, please explain how an electronic scan tool is turning off a mechanical jerk pump cylinder by cylinder.







The in-tank is way beyond better than the cannister mounted pump. Its been proven to handle twice the HP the 2nd gens make for a lot longer than any other solution. Far from a joke when they go 400k consistently.







Injectors go bad, or, the VP goes bad and spits pieces into the injector and then dies later. About all you can do is verify you have good pressure to the IP and go from there. Chekc that first before worrying about the in-tank pump.



Just don't be surprised if down the line the VP starts acting up.

My snap on scanner has the capability to cut out injectors by cylinder.

 

[Sticks]

What will the in-tank pump hold for pressure by itself in the VP systems? Have you ever checked that? Wondering if the lines, fittings, etc, are the difference.

It's been 5 years since I actually checked pressure on one. I think I only checked pressures on them for the first couple of months that I started seeing and installing them and since they were insufficient, never bothered to test them again.



IIRC a new in tank pump only put out 7psi, and within a day it was down to 2 psi idle, and 0 (no reading on my gauge) or vacuum at WOT.

The in-tank pump seems to be capable of holding over 20 psi if one goes in and tweaks the pump pickup to actually push fuel instead of dump the bulk of it back to the cannister.

Not gonna waste the time tweaking something that can cause other issues down the road, or void a warranty, when using the two "Factory" pumps in series works perfectly fine and is reliable for many hours of operation and good for another 100 HP in mods.

Curious whether the 2nd gen install made any changes over the 3rd gen implementation. The couple trucks I am familiar with that had the retro done are fine, no issues with codes and good power, so am wondering if this is just an install thing or something else that is going on.

Could not tell you. Don't know if the 3rd gen tank unit is different or the same as the 2nd gen unit.



You can not compare the MFI 24v engines to the Common Rail engines. Two different animals in regards to fuel requirements.