Guns, Bows, Shooting Sports, and Hunting Sig P220 Thoughts?

[goodguys75]

I hear ya. Kind of like when I tell people there are firemen who are afraid to go into fires...

here in Vegas, everyone wants to be a fireman..... because its cool and the money, i bet a lot of them would not be if they were in a real city back east... . with real structures... ... .

 

[Flying_gage]

here in Vegas, everyone wants to be a fireman..... because its cool and the money, i bet a lot of them would not be if they were in a real city back east... . with real structures... ... .

Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner! You are a perceptive individual!

I am 40 years old. No degree, but college education. Little bit of "hill billie" running through me. But I can find my way away around a wrench. I know how to build stuff and just had my step son ask me how he could get hands like me; well used with callouses and the feeling of sandpaper. And I love the rush of a good structure fire! Nothing like it, (Lot's of fast motorcycles, my pilot license, flight medic and skydiving). So pretty representative of what a fireman used to be.

Now because of the explosion of benefits and pay, we are now hiring kids straight out of college with bachelors and masters degrees. They are mostly metrosexuals with designer clothes, smooth hands and driving fancy cars. Some have done ok, most haven't. It is very sad...

A guy that I worked loss prevention with came out to you guys. Heck he probably has 18 yrs on now! Trying to remember his name...

 

[BIGNASTY]

Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner! You are a perspective individual!

I am 40 years old. No degree, but college education. Little bit of "hill billie" running through me. But I can find my way away around a wrench. I know how to build stuff and just had my step son ask me how he could get hands like me; well used with callouses and the feeling of sandpaper. And I love the rush of a good structure fire! Nothing like it, (Lot's of fast motorcycles, my pilot license, flight medic and skydiving). So pretty representative of what a fireman used to be.

Now because of the explosion of benefits and pay, we are now hiring kids straight out of college with bachelors and masters degrees. They are mostly metrosexuals with designer clothes, smooth hands and driving fancy cars. Some have done ok, most haven't. It is very sad...

A guy that I worked loss prevention with came out to you guys. Heck he probably has 18 yrs on now! Trying to remember his name...

Gee I will have to point this out to my Son that was a fireman/Parmedic and my Daughter that was a flight nurse in the Air Force, she is still a surgical nurse in a Veterans Hospital. That their College degrees made them a Metrosexual??? what ever the hell that is. Son was going to get canned because of the economy in Calif. but had, had enough of pulling bodies out of sausage grinder car accidents anyway. Went into (cant even figure out how to say it much less spell it) he shoots the people that have cancer with what looks like a Xray machine to kill cancer cells, and is a part to full time rancher. But interesting about being a METROSEXUAL maybe with their HIGHER EDUCATION they can explain it to dear old Dad so he can understand with his High School Diploma.

 

[Flying_gage]

Gee I will have to point this out to my Son that was a fireman/Parmedic and my Daughter that was a flight nurse in the Air Force, she is still a surgical nurse in a Veterans Hospital. That their College degrees made them a Metrosexual??? what ever the hell that is. Son was going to get canned because of the economy in Calif. but had, had enough of pulling bodies out of sausage grinder car accidents anyway. Went into (cant even figure out how to say it much less spell it) he shoots the people that have cancer with what looks like a Xray machine to kill cancer cells, and is a part to full time rancher. But interesting about being a METROSEXUAL maybe with their HIGHER EDUCATION they can explain it to dear old Dad so he can understand with his High School Diploma.

I am sorry if I inferred that a college degree made a person metrosexual. That was not the intent. I do think that Goodguy may get what I am talking about though. Will be interesting to see if he does?

What is happening to the fire service and police in my part of the country, is that they are no longer blue collar jobs. The jobs are attracting a different person now. No longer is it the high school jock who didn't go to college or the kids who took the cars apart, then putting them back together. The kids now get out of college and see a six figure income where they only have work 110 days a year and have amazing benefits.

These kids are coming from homes where their parents are very white collar. Houses where Dad doesn't have a tool box or a saw. Therefore they are never exposed to that as kids.
I have literally had to give tutorials on how a ratchet works and the need to a wrench on the other side. That is for the kids willing to learn. Some kids refuse to get there hands dirty now doing station maintenance.

 

[HHhuntitall]

That's a heck of a good deal, and that's a very fine firearm. It's been my experience the older pistols, imported from Germany, like the one you have, were better made, higher quality handguns. I think it's a steal, and would have bought it, too!! I'd wager it'll stack them in a neat little clover at 25yds if you do your part. I've had several..... well, I've never sold any of the older ones I've gotten. I've got an old 226 made near the same year as yours, and it's got well over 5,000 rounds throught it, and while the slide is getting some rattle and slack, it still will hit a man sized silhouette every shot, just where I want it to... .

Just go shoot it, you'll like it. THey handle well, and aside from being a bit picky on ammo in accuracy, I've never had any feed failures on mine until it got really, really dirty.

 

[goodguys75]

Gee I will have to point this out to my Son that was a fireman/Parmedic and my Daughter that was a flight nurse in the Air Force, she is still a surgical nurse in a Veterans Hospital. That their College degrees made them a Metrosexual??? what ever the hell that is. Son was going to get canned because of the economy in Calif. but had, had enough of pulling bodies out of sausage grinder car accidents anyway. Went into (cant even figure out how to say it much less spell it) he shoots the people that have cancer with what looks like a Xray machine to kill cancer cells, and is a part to full time rancher. But interesting about being a METROSEXUAL maybe with their HIGHER EDUCATION they can explain it to dear old Dad so he can understand with his High School Diploma.

The point of the whole conversation is that all these kids with no experience, and have college degrees, have figured out that if they become fireman, here especially in Vegas, because of the very high pay, they can make more money doing that, than what there degree is in..... so basically they are doing the job for the money, not for the love of being a fireman or actually helping people... . and at the same time they look good doing it and they are heroes in there minds... ... like i said, if they were back east, and had to go into real fires, or big structures, i bet they would not do it... . that is why there are people who test from all over the country, because of the huge salaries these people make... ... .

 

[Flying_gage]

That's a heck of a good deal, and that's a very fine firearm. It's been my experience the older pistols, imported from Germany, like the one you have, were better made, higher quality handguns. I think it's a steal, and would have bought it, too!! I'd wager it'll stack them in a neat little clover at 25yds if you do your part. I've had several..... well, I've never sold any of the older ones I've gotten. I've got an old 226 made near the same year as yours, and it's got well over 5,000 rounds throught it, and while the slide is getting some rattle and slack, it still will hit a man sized silhouette every shot, just where I want it to... .

Just go shoot it, you'll like it. THey handle well, and aside from being a bit picky on ammo in accuracy, I've never had any feed failures on mine until it got really, really dirty.

Thanks for the info on your 226. The officer claimed that in his 13 yrs with the gun he has over 10k rounds through it. It is very tight. I expressed my doubts about it to my buddy who showed it to me, but it is his buddy not mine. Guess anything is possible. Yet the overall condition of it and the bore don't really point to it having that round count. Hell my G23 that was made in 94 and has been shot a ton, isn't even close to that number...

I will clean it up, fire her for a baseline and then get the spring kit, pins and the trigger reset kit for it. Cheap investment to keep her going...

HH any other thoughts?

 

[Flying_gage]

The point of the whole conversation is that all these kids with no experience, and have college degrees, have figured out that if they become fireman, here especially in Vegas, because of the very high pay, they can make more money doing that, than what there degree is in..... so basically they are doing the job for the money, not for the love of being a fireman or actually helping people... . and at the same time they look good doing it and they are heroes in there minds... ... like i said, if they were back east, and had to go into real fires, or big structures, i bet they would not do it... . that is why there are people who test from all over the country, because of the huge salaries these people make... ... .

Yep... ... .

 

[p-Bar]

just because an officer owned the weapon, does not mean he or she knows what they are doing... . there are lots of officers that just shoot during qualification and that is all, and know nothing about guns or proper gun care... . scary thought. And this is a cold hard fact here for the world famous Metro officers.....

Thats why most departments have armorers.

 

[BIGNASTY]

I am sorry if I inferred that a college degree made a person metrosexual. That was not the intent. I do think that Goodguy may get what I am talking about though. Will be interesting to see if he does?



What is happening to the fire service and police in my part of the country, is that they are no longer blue collar jobs. The jobs are attracting a different person now. No longer is it the high school jock who didn't go to college or the kids who took the cars apart, then putting them back together. The kids now get out of college and see a six figure income where they only have work 110 days a year and have amazing benefits.



These kids are coming from homes where their parents are very white collar. Houses where Dad doesn't have a tool box or a saw. Therefore they are never exposed to that as kids.

I have literally had to give tutorials on how a ratchet works and the need to a wrench on the other side. That is for the kids willing to learn. Some kids refuse to get there hands dirty now doing station maintenance.

I would have to agree with most of what you wrote, We went to the firehouse where the Son was stationed on many holidays. He always worked for the guy's that had family so they could be home with them instead of at work. When we went as many times as we did to share the holidays with them they got to know us, some of the firemen were pretty straight forward thinking guys THE WORDS COMMON SENSE comes to mind. The fire chief or Captain what ever was a different story, we went to see our son one time at a fireman's muster. There were demonstrations on how what and why, im sure that you have seen or been in some yourself. Our Son repelled from a 10 story building ausi style face first rope lead was at his back, it was not my favorite thing as a father to see. The Captain asked what do you think of your Son? Im proud as hell of what he had become and left it at that. Later I was helping stow some of the gear and ROPES are my thing, I wound up some of the ropes the way I do things and the Chief was amazed at some of the knots that I use and use here working with pack animals everyday. I tried as much or more than I ever had to teach someone how to use the knots that I use, they aren't in many books they are knots that have been passed down from Mule packer to Mule packer for centuries. He came with us to Montana along with some of the other Firemen to go hunting and my Son and I were tying down the loads my way. The Chief asked why this way and not this way? I told him if a mule goes under water crossing a stream I don't want to be fishing around UNDERWATER trying to find the rope knot release, He STILL HAD NO CLUE. We got to a river crossing and I told them to take your feet out of the stirrups again NOT A CLUE. Sure as hell a mule went in a hole and was failing around trying to get up right and get on its feet, not an easy thing to do with 250 extra lbs on its back. I reached ON TOP and RELEASED the TOP KNOT with just a pull of the end of the rope. Sure we had to go down stream to retrieve the gear but its better than killing one of my mules. He WOULD NOT understand about his boots out of the stirrups until his horse went under with him unable to get up without my Nephew kicking his feet out of the stirrups so he could get clear of the horse. He later around the campfire said he owes me a thank you for saving my butt from drowning or at the very least getting hurt pretty bad, I said you don't owe me you owe that young man and pointed to my Nephew, Nephew told him not that big a deal but just do what uncle BIG asks there are reasons for what he asks its all about getting in and back out of here without getting hurt, and in the same line of thought he asks WHY THE KNOT ON TOP???? and why do you use a 165 ft of rope to tie down per animal why not two ropes 83 ft long????? two knots to release comes to me!!!!!



And this is an experienced educated man in-charge of others?????

 

[BIGNASTY]

Thats why most departments have armorers.

When we came in from the field in the Military we were to take our weapons to the Armory for safe keeping (cause the base we were in was a safe base) the armorers would check them out and give them a good cleaning and inspection. When we went back to get the weapons and go back in the field I would disassemble my weapon and do the reassembly myself. A SMSGT in the Armory got kind of upset when I did this he got in my face about it, Its my Butt that's on the line, IM NOT TRUSTING ANYONE BUT ME, AND I DONT CARE WHO YOU ARE!!! guess he got over it cause he said GOOD POINT.

There are NO TIME OUT'S when the SHTF

 

[p-Bar]

Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner! You are a perceptive individual!

I am 40 years old. No degree, but college education. Little bit of "hill billie" running through me. But I can find my way away around a wrench. I know how to build stuff and just had my step son ask me how he could get hands like me; well used with callouses and the feeling of sandpaper. And I love the rush of a good structure fire! Nothing like it, (Lot's of fast motorcycles, my pilot license, flight medic and skydiving). So pretty representative of what a fireman used to be.

Now because of the explosion of benefits and pay, we are now hiring kids straight out of college with bachelors and masters degrees. They are mostly metrosexuals with designer clothes, smooth hands and driving fancy cars. Some have done ok, most haven't. It is very sad...

A guy that I worked loss prevention with came out to you guys. Heck he probably has 18 yrs on now! Trying to remember his name...

I was a PCF on a small dept. that had paid staff too and the new chief was amazed how the paid staff had no construction experience nor mechanical . Funny how things have changed it has now gone to a min BA degree. How boring the firehouse must be today.....

 

[Flying_gage]

I would have to agree with most of what you wrote, We went to the firehouse where the Son was stationed on many holidays. He always worked for the guy's that had family so they could be home with them instead of at work. When we went as many times as we did to share the holidays with them they got to know us, some of the firemen were pretty straight forward thinking guys THE WORDS COMMON SENSE comes to mind. The fire chief or Captain what ever was a different story, we went to see our son one time at a fireman's muster. There were demonstrations on how what and why, im sure that you have seen or been in some yourself. Our Son repelled from a 10 story building ausi style face first rope lead was at his back, it was not my favorite thing as a father to see. The Captain asked what do you think of your Son? Im proud as hell of what he had become and left it at that. Later I was helping stow some of the gear and ROPES are my thing, I wound up some of the ropes the way I do things and the Chief was amazed at some of the knots that I use and use here working with pack animals everyday. I tried as much or more than I ever had to teach someone how to use the knots that I use, they aren't in many books they are knots that have been passed down from Mule packer to Mule packer for centuries. He came with us to Montana along with some of the other Firemen to go hunting and my Son and I were tying down the loads my way. The Chief asked why this way and not this way? I told him if a mule goes under water crossing a stream I don't want to be fishing around UNDERWATER trying to find the rope knot release, He STILL HAD NO CLUE. We got to a river crossing and I told them to take your feet out of the stirrups again NOT A CLUE. Sure as hell a mule went in a hole and was failing around trying to get up right and get on its feet, not an easy thing to do with 250 extra lbs on its back. I reached ON TOP and RELEASED the TOP KNOT with just a pull of the end of the rope. Sure we had to go down stream to retrieve the gear but its better than killing one of my mules. He WOULD NOT understand about his boots out of the stirrups until his horse went under with him unable to get up without my Nephew kicking his feet out of the stirrups so he could get clear of the horse. He later around the campfire said he owes me a thank you for saving my butt from drowning or at the very least getting hurt pretty bad, I said you don't owe me you owe that young man and pointed to my Nephew, Nephew told him not that big a deal but just do what uncle BIG asks there are reasons for what he asks its all about getting in and back out of here without getting hurt, and in the same line of thought he asks WHY THE KNOT ON TOP???? and why do you use a 165 ft of rope to tie down per animal why not two ropes 83 ft long????? two knots to release comes to me!!!!!

And this is an experienced educated man in-charge of others?????

Must be a Captain thing Big... My Captain and I are on the same haz-mat team. He being in charge of station I was at he was in charge of equipment. One day I walked back to our utility room and he was mounting the bracket to hold our O2 bottles while filling them, about 6" from the furnace. As I was watching him, I could clearly see the pilot lite flickering... I asked him what the he was doing, and proud as peacock he showed me the new mounting location and it's benefits for us medics. I then asked him, "ain't oxygen an oxidizer?". About 10 mins later it was moved.

Nobody is perfect. Yet I am sure some would be scared if they understood some of the people that protect them.

 

[BIGNASTY]

Must be a Captain thing Big... My Captain and I are on the same haz-mat team. He being in charge of station I was at he was in charge of equipment. One day I walked back to our utility room and he was mounting the bracket to hold our O2 bottles while filling them, about 6" from the furnace. As I was watching him, I could clearly see the pilot lite flickering... I asked him what the he was doing, and proud as peacock he showed me the new mounting location and it's benefits for us medics. I then asked him, "ain't oxygen an oxidizer?". About 10 mins later it was moved.

Nobody is perfect. Yet I am sure some would be scared if they understood some of the people that protect them.

Well im not one for not saying what I think and told the Son and a couple of the other firemen that I would think twice about roping off to that guy, in case of an life threatening event I want the best guy on the OTHER END OF MY ROPE!!! My Son isn't the most resourceful man on the planet with his hands, but when it comes to Emergency Medical Treatment, I WILL TAKE HIM ANYDAY!!! In the Dept that he worked they ran a video recorder all the time they were on a call, I think for two reasons. To cover their butt legally and as a training aid, I have watched some of the things that my Son did and I don't care if he can twist a wrench or not he's a pretty fast think-er when time is critical and medical treatment is needed fast.

 

[Dl5treez]

DL,

I will try and answer as best I can as I do not have it in my possession yet, (this sunday I pick it up)

- No rail
- No stainless
- Made in Germany on the side
- Not sure on the stamping under barrel. As I understand it, it probably will not have these proof's due to it's age. Rough serial number check shows it to be a 1999 or 2000
- Plastic box that is black in color.

Here is the only pic that I have of it at this point.

#ad


I appreciate the enthusiasm DL and look forward to your response! I knew I was getting a decent deal Always nice to hear confirmation though!

Big, I think the pics might show better what I am talking about. There is a heavy sheen of oil on the gun. When I removed the slide, there was oil that had puddled in places. It boggles my mind that people, (esp. a police officer who relies on the weapon) still over oil their guns. He was selling two guns and I looked them both over, (other was a new looking gen 3 glock for $300). It too was soaking in oil...

I just want to go through it and really get into the tight places and clean her out. I am sure there will be accumulated junk in there.

Nice looking piece! Looks to me like a transition gun; manufactured in Germany, assembled in US. It could be an all German assembled unit as well. Either way, it's a good one!

The frame is alloy (aluminum) and the slide is a welded multi piece stamped carbon steel assembly. Nothing wrong with that--the newer ones are milled from a billet of stainless. The older slides have smooth lines preferred by many. The finish is not very strong and will show wear, they also are susceptible to rusting in a high humidity environment.

The excess oil could be a result of the previous owner trying to prohibit the rust. A Sig pistol can run rather dry in most areas without issue, but does require quite a lot of lubricant on the slide rails, where the frame and slide meet. I use a concoction made by Bruce Gray @ Gray Guns but Brian Enos' Slide-Glide is great, too.

I clean and protect my guns with Gunzilla. Seems to work pretty well. Break Free CLP, Kroil, I've used those with success as well.

Most Sigs come factory with "combat" sights. In other words, you'll have to cover your target in order to hit it. They can be changed with a sight pusher tool to any combination or style you like, however (target, etc). Factory Sig Sauer night sights (SigLite) are made by Meprolight. I run the factory nights and Heine Straight 8's on my guns.

Have no fear, though... . straight out of the box with NO modifications, that handgun will run thousands upon thousands of rounds, of any type, of any material, without a break in period and without issue. Like I said before, it's arguably the best out of the box 45 available.

There's no external safety, just a decocker. It can be upgraded through competent Sig armorers and be sent back to Sig Sauer for an action enhancement, short reset triggers, etc as well--which most any pistolsmith good with Sigs can perform.

I see it came with the Sig stainless magazine, too. No need to change from that. Best one you can get.

It's a great handgun... . for $450, you stole it.

 

[goodguys75]

I love mine, and its about 13 yrs old... great shooter... ... ... . mine is the two tone, bought it for the metro police academy, because 45 is way better than 9mm that they issue... .

 

[goodguys75]

Well im not one for not saying what I think and told the Son and a couple of the other firemen that I would think twice about roping off to that guy, in case of an life threatening event I want the best guy on the OTHER END OF MY ROPE!!! My Son isn't the most resourceful man on the planet with his hands, but when it comes to Emergency Medical Treatment, I WILL TAKE HIM ANYDAY!!! In the Dept that he worked they ran a video recorder all the time they were on a call, I think for two reasons. To cover their butt legally and as a training aid, I have watched some of the things that my Son did and I don't care if he can twist a wrench or not he's a pretty fast think-er when time is critical and medical treatment is needed fast.

that was the whole point of our conversation, the people who apply to do that type of job, are a bunch of idiots..... they only get hired because they are book smart and pass the test with flying colors, then when it comes down to doing the job, they are clueless... .

 

[Flying_gage]

Just picked her up. Purchased it via another fireman who was selling for a guy. Come to find out, the guy selling it is the brother of a guy who I used to fly with on the helicopter. Just another little reminder how small the world truly is!

Will get this thread back on track tomorrow, (hopefully) and give a proper report.

Special thanks to DL! I appreciate the insight!

 

[HHhuntitall]

Thanks for the info on your 226. The officer claimed that in his 13 yrs with the gun he has over 10k rounds through it. It is very tight. I expressed my doubts about it to my buddy who showed it to me, but it is his buddy not mine. Guess anything is possible. Yet the overall condition of it and the bore don't really point to it having that round count. Hell my G23 that was made in 94 and has been shot a ton, isn't even close to that number...



I will clean it up, fire her for a baseline and then get the spring kit, pins and the trigger reset kit for it. Cheap investment to keep her going...



HH any other thoughts?

As DL5treez pointed out, a good cleaning and a lube go a long ways to preserving the fit and finish. I use Brownell's Friction Defense, and had good luck with it the last two years... . It's still in testing as far as I'm concerned, but it's proving to be a good lube, so far. It's a great rust preventative. Frog Lube is good, I've been told by a pro who should know, as well as Slide Glide, Lubriplate, and Kroil. Kroil has little pressure resistance, but excellent rust preventive measures... . I like Friction Defense, as it seems to dry into a thin film in small places, preventing even worn blueing. I've used it on several 1911 builds and it's looking like a good lube, so far. I don't have much field testing with it yet, as I don't get out like I used to... ... Lubriplate attracts too much dirt for me, but is great for a competition gun. Lots of competition guys use the Slide Glide, but I've seen a lot of galled rails on 1911s that should have done what they did if they had a good lube... . Maybe user error... ... . I need to test it, too, but I'm pretty busy with other pressing and important things to do... somewhere...



I would call BS on the 10k rounds and it's still tight on the slide... . It's a . 45. They usually don't stay that tight that long, and I'd have to see it to believe it. Not to call the guy a liar, but there are several things that don't last that long. For one, if he shot jacketed bullets, the first inch or two of lands should be getting VERY thin. They should be visibly shallower at the throat than at the end of the barrel. Secondly, the bolt face should have a very definitive groove in it from the cartridge wearing on it when being fired and then ejected. Brass is soft, but over time, it will still wear the steel. Very few that are immaculately cared for will do that many rounds and still be tight... . Regardless, if the slide is tight, you're good to go, the price was right, so have fun doing it.



Keep us updated.

 

[BIGNASTY]

HH what are the gun lubes you mentioned above like when the temps get below 0 Ive been using Shooter Choice FP-10 doesn't seem to get GOOOOOOEY when it gets cold like some of the others.