Sludge in Transmission Pan

[Mike Wenrich]

Doing a fluid change right now and I noticed a lot of black sludge on the bottom. When doing this before I only recall some stuff on/around the magnet. Fluid change was 30K ago and I began to notice it darken a bit thus the change. There is 155K on the trans and now I'm wondering if I need to start looking for a rebuilder. Maybe something in there is beginning to eat itself. Shifts fine but has not had a band adjustment. Ever. I was going to do that this time after reading the write up in the TDR. Any thoughts??? Its a 2004.5, 48RE.

 

[Ozymandias]

Did you adjust the bands 30k ago?
And as always, pictures would have been great.


...wait a minute - you never did a band adjustment since it left the factory??????
OMG..

It's a wonder it lasted even that long..
Adjustments are crucial for this Trans, always have been since 1950 when it came out.

 

[slowmover]

1957 iron case and two pumps (could push start)

1962 aluminum case, one pump. Park pawl added.

1970s, some serious upgrades (part throttle kickdown was great), lock-up, etc.

1990-? 46H OD version

But, yeah, band adjustment always a requirement.


.

 

[Mike Wenrich]

Yup. Never did. I'm easy on a trans. Did a lot of towing about 15 years ago but very rarely now. It's more a ranch truck and go to the dump with trash now. Just filled it and took it for a run. Shifts good and fluid looks a lot better but I'm still concerned about the oil slick. Really not sure how much to expect and it's been a lot of years since the last change due to having other vehicles and trucks to drive in the meantime. Since it's looking better I might attempt the band adjustment but I'm waiting for more replies on the "slick". If it's going downhill then I need to just get a rebuild.

Really short of references for that here. In the mountains above the Central San Joaquin Valley. Saw one for Left Coast Diesel in Livermore, about 120 miles away. Used to see some references for a fellow in Redding (JH Diesel), about 300 miles or so from me but have not seen his ad in awhile. I really don't want to wait until it quits on me and I can't drive to a good builder. Too old to remove it myself.

 

[Ozymandias]

Absolutely adjust the bands, especially the front one is done in 5 Minutes.

 

[GSP7]

If the bands need adjusting the trans is probably fried, or getting ready too

 

[AH64ID]

I would clean the pan, adjust the bands, and add fresh fluid. See what the fluid/pan/magnet look like in 1/2 the normal interval if it’s still driving fine.

 

[Mike Wenrich]

My inch pound torque wrench is not a click type. It's one with a scale. I will have to see if I can get that in place and read it. Am I correct that the sludge in the pan is an indication of failure? It looked like old diesel oil but with a little more consistency. Oil did not smell burnt. Just dirty looking like engine oil. Still transparent but the pink was almost gone. And what would that material be?

 

[Mike Wenrich]

AH64ID thanks for the picture. I do have the Moses Ludel article saved but I copied yours to take under the truck with me.

 

[AH64ID]

The sludge could be excess wear, but hard to say if it’s enough for impending failure or not.

 

[Ozymandias]

If the front band adjuster bolt is flush with the lock nut after the adjustment your Band is read for replacement.

 

[Mike Wenrich]

Okay, good info. That is a good benchmark to know.

 

[Ozymandias]

Okay, good info. That is a good benchmark to know.

If it comes to that point I would install a slip-in band and see how much further the transmission can go till a full rebuild.

 

[Ozymandias]

If the bands need adjusting the trans is probably fried, or getting ready too

Not really, the bands slack is crucial for the shift timing itself. You roast them fast if they are to loose - or to thight.

 

[Mike Wenrich]

Turns out I have a inch lb breaker torque wrench but it's a hand me down and the calibration is not certain. I put 72 inch lbs on it and clamped the socket holder in a vise. Seems to me there was quite a bit of pull before the release of torque. If 72 inch pounds is equal to 6 ft pounds then it may be off. The other inch pound wrench I have is the scale type and it does not go low enough to use for this purpose. I'm going to check with a mechanic friend to ask if he has one.

As for a slip in band I don't know what that is but can imagine from looking at the pictures of the band it's one you can take up some slack. Kinda like a shim but with band material on it.

 

[Ozymandias]

Slip-in means you can put it in without dropping the transmission and full disassembly. Pan off, valve body down is all it needs to be installed.
It is disputed how good it is for the long run but in your case with how you use the truck I'd give it a shoot in case.

 

[GSP7]

GSP7 said: ↑
If the bands need adjusting the trans is probably fried, or getting ready too

Not really, the bands slack is crucial for the shift timing itself. You roast them fast if they are to loose - or to thight.

Yes really..... In the real world of auto trans mechanic experience.. . Straight from a experienced second generation trans shop owner/ racer

.

 

[Mike Wenrich]

One other comment from a neighbor who has rebuilt some auto trans. He believes the black material indicates clutch material not band friction material. I have not had clutch slippage that I am aware of and the trans shifts as always. But something is clearly going on. I borrowed a 1/4" drive beam style inch lb torque wrench from him.

I'm curious about the comment that if the bands need adjusting the trans is likely near failure. Why adjust the bands if that is the case? In my case it's ignorance for not having this done before but would that have made any difference? Maybe because I don't tow a lot the trans has lived longer w/o an adjustment. I'm prepared to do whatever I need to do to make the vehicle reliable. Where I drive it is dangerous to lose power on highways with very limited turnouts. When I lost the lift pump last year I was lucky to coast into a driveway entrance after the engine suddenly died. Shivering cold by the time the tow truck got to me but otherwise did not become road kill.

 

[Mike Wenrich]

Had an appt in a large town about 80 miles from me yesterday and stopped by a trans shop that was referred to me. They carry Certified rebuilts in stock form and beefed up plus they will rebuild your trans to suit you. They recommend a billet torque converter over stock but otherwise nothing else. Expensive though. They rebuild for 5K. a Certified done in stock is $5800 and a beefed Certified is $7200. Looked at reviews and seems Certified is a good one if I choose to have it repaired at this point. Could not get to the band adjustment yet but soon. Posted this info in case anyone was curious about the company and cost. Those were an installed price so labor is in there somewhere.

 

[Ozymandias]

Always go for a low stall high efficiency converter, this is SO MUCH better.