Smarty, the new CaTCHER tool.

[Walt-L]

my fuel system is 160 GPH pump 1/2 line to the VP and i run 22 psi

I seem to remember reading somewhere that Cummins recomended no more than 17 psi MAX for a VP 44. If this is true, you may be blowing the pressure relief valve.

 

[Fishin Guide]

I seem to remember reading somewhere that Cummins recomended no more than 17 psi MAX for a VP 44. If this is true, you may be blowing the pressure relief valve.

I sure hope not, or they ain't gonna like the 45psi I throw at it! :-laf



Dave

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

you may be blowing the pressure relief valve.

What "pressure relief valve" would that be?



There's a common spring/ball type bypass valve that controls fuel return to the fuel tank - but it's clear over on the output side of the VP-44, after LOTS of internal mechanism that effectively isolates it from the input side - other than that, there ARE internal seals, and the diaphragm that might be issues with higher than normal PSI...



But no "relief valve" threats I am aware of...

 

[NoSeeUm]

I seem to remember reading somewhere that Cummins recomended no more than 17 psi MAX for a VP 44. If this is true, you may be blowing the pressure relief valve.

Overflow valve?



Jim

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Overflow valve?



Jim

YUP - the overflow valve - a common spring loaded valve incorporated into the banjo fitting on the fuel return port of the VP-44.





Fishin Guide describes it like this:

The overflow valve is on the side of the VP44. It looks like a banjo bolt and has a return line attached that goes to the back of the block. It's easily removed with a 19MM wrench.



The overflow does not lower pressure at the front of the VP. I have had mine open to atmosphere and I can still maintain 20 psi. The way I think of it is a means to hold some fuel in the body of the VP at all times. It is not a pressure regulator like in a gasser. The fuel still enters the front of the pump and that's where the wear would be.

The construction and placement of the overflow valve is such that fuel PSI variations at the INPUT of the VP-44 will have little or no affect on it...

 

[RCenters]

I know were yr talking about , its beside the supply bango or fitting am i wright ? So i can just take that out ? iv had that of alot last few days swaping pumps i didnt c no such valve ? is it inside mayb ?? i really need a pic hehehe

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

I know were yr talking about , its beside the supply bango or fitting am i wright ? So i can just take that out ? iv had that of alot last few days swaping pumps i didnt c no such valve ? is it inside mayb ?? i really need a pic hehehe

YUP - you have it located!



No, you don't want to remove and toss it - it's there for a purpose, but that purpose is NOT to in any way regulate the INCOMING fuel pressure!



Guys hear that that valve is a 14 PSI flow valve, and immediately assume that since it sits there right next to the incoming fuel line, they MUST be interconnected at that point - they are NOT!



Look at it more closely next time you have it out, and you will see the ball-bearing looking portion of the valve - if you push on it with a probe, you will easily see it move back against it's internal spring pressure.

 

[Allnew2Me]

I called Edge a while ago to clear up the "no tap" comp and this is what they said to me. Without the pump tapped you are not adding any fuel, leaving your overhead display unaffected. It only advances the timing and the five levels only change the point at which that timing advance comes on in terms of pedal position. In other words, on 1 the timing comes in later than if you have it set to any higher setting but the actual timing advance is the same. The sublevels don't do anything without the pump wire tapped. They are suppose to fine tune the fuel added when the Comp is adding fuel and timing in the tapped mode to help eliminate smoke. I have not tapped my wire and the timing works as stated, with a nice increase in mileage also. When I finally do tap I'm going to install a switch to "untap" the pump when I wish to just drive it with the fuel savings.

 

[SnoKing]

That is quite my understanding. Without the tap the sublevels effect weither stock fueling is delayed 1-2, normal 3 or sooner 4-5. I set my untapped Comp for:

1x1

2x2

3x3

4x4

5x5



So, depending on the main level selected, I am effecting the sublevel. On 5x5 it will make smoke easier than on 3x3 where I normally leave it. SNOKING

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Somehow, these seemingly agreeing posts DON'T agree!

The sublevels don't do anything without the pump wire tapped.

That is quite my understanding. Without the tap the sublevels effect weither stock fueling is delayed 1-2, normal 3 or sooner 4-5. I set my untapped Comp for:

1x1

2x2

3x3

4x4

5x5



So, depending on the main level selected, I am effecting the sublevel. On 5x5 it will make smoke easier than on 3x3 where I normally leave it. SNOKING

IF the sub-levels DO NOT have any effect on an UNtapped pump - as the FIRST post claims Edge says, why use ANY sublevel settings at all, other than 1? What will a 3x3 do that a 3x1 won't?

 

[NoSeeUm]

I am not going to disagree or agree about no more fueling with the wire un-tapped. This is likely common knowledge, but here is my opinion.



You really can't get more power with out adding more fuel. True, advancing the timing does add some more power, but that is because the efficientcy of the fuel that is burned is greater. This is easily seen by measuring fuel economy, which is increased a bit when timing is advanced. But not 40-80Hp or 90-160 ft/lbms torque. And a Hp Torque Curve that is shifted noticeably left and upward. With power that lays you back in the seat for the first 1/4 inch of throttle pedal movement.



I believe, more fuel gets added because performance boxes mess with the MAP signal to the ECM. Essentially the box fools the ECM into believing that the boost pressure is higher than it actually is. So, because the ECM seems a higher boost level it fuels harder. This is why you can see very noticeable Hp / torque improvements with so-called "timing only" boxes. This is probably why almost all timing boxes reach about the same Hp gain, the ECM can only be fooled so much.



This might not be the only way a performance box fools the ECM into fueling harder (IAT, throttle position). Truly, I am pretty unclear about the whole thing.



I also believe that ECM programmers (AKA Smarty) do kind of the same thing, only directly. There is no "fooling" the ECM involved. I would expect that the Fx tables (plots curves) that the ECM uses for timing and fueling get modified. So the ECM software just runs on a different set of fueling numbers than when in the stock mode.



Just my . 02... .



Jim

 

[RCenters]

The REDLINE box uses TPS instead of map to fuel

 

[DLBurns]

I can maintain 20 psi with the overflow valve out and vented to atmosphere. So, if the valve is in constant bypass, the VP is not retaining any fuel internally. The fuel pressure that we all see is resistance to flow at the snout of the pump.



So again, I would do the FREE check of the overflow valve. I have 20 PSI showing all the time and whent he overflow went bad, the driveability sucked.



Do what you will with the information. if it checks out, then fine. At leasst you have ruled it out.



Dave

My driveability is fine without the fiver hooked up. I have been running around all over Seaside and Astoria unloaded and have not had a "huffing" issue yet

I will look into the overflow issue when I get home.

I do appreciate your responses...

Dave

 

[BPINE]

My driveability is fine without the fiver hooked up. I have been running around all over Seaside and Astoria unloaded and have not had a "huffing" issue yet

I will look into the overflow issue when I get home.

I do appreciate your responses...

Dave

Dave remember what I told you to try before you come home, here is a hint (SR).

 

[DLBurns]

10-4 Blair... I will give that a shot.



I guess I am the only Smarty user having this problem!

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Over on the NWBombers site, a member posted commenting on the VP-44 216 error code he was getting with the Smarty enabled - but nearly impossible to get when the Smarty was disabled.



My ears perked up a bit on that one, since I recently had an experience that pretty well duplicated his. Unfortunately, traffic is pretty slow over on that board, and the post I include here is my effort towards the greater exposure and comments available on this board

I got my AEM air filter today that I installed onto the AFE stage 2 air box so I took the truck out to see if it would build the same boost and to see if the temps moved from the AFE filter. I was getting on it pretty hard getting onto the freeway (out of town), got on the freeway and slowed down to 75 and was just cruizing along until I got behind an RV so I pull into the left lane to pass him but the truck doesn't do anything when I give it throttle, I tried severall times of letting off then pressing again but nothing. Finally after letting off and back on it responds and I wipe the sweat from my brow. When I got home I grabbed the Smarty and checked the codes (CEL never came on), the Smarty reported P0216 - Fuel Injection Pump Timing Failure, P0602 ECM Fueling Calibration Error: Common With Non-Stock Software and a P1693 - DTC Detected in Companion JTEC Module.

Am I screwed?



Another question how does the ECM know I am not running stock software? Is this P0216 code common with all trucks running Catchers or Smarties?



(Later by same guy, in same thread):



My F/P is at 13 idle 11 normal driving but I can suck it down to about 5 WOT. I have been using Power Service double dose on almost every fill since new and the truck has 27k on it now. I'm pretty sure its not the Smarty thats the problem but this does bring up an interesting point. I'm pretty sure the only way I can get it to show the P0216 is with the Smarty and drive it really hard but in doing so it also sets off the other codes. Is there any way I can reset the other codes but leave the P0216 and then put the Smarty back to stock and take it back to the dealer with just the P0216 showing so they don't know I'm running with different software? I'm still under warranty and would like to get them to fix it. Has anyone had any problems with dealers giving them a hard time with gauges and an intake but nothing else?

And now, my reply to the above:



I'm curious as to followup on all the above, since I recently had a similar experience on my own Smarty/Comp equipped '02.



In my case, the 216 was very easy to set at will - all I needed to do with the Smarty programming activated, was rev the engine to 3000 RPM or so for about 10 seconds no load, and BINGO, 216! Truck never missed a beat, no dead pedal or ANY running issues of ANY kind - running empty or towing! It was nearly impossible to get the same code with the Smarty programming removed - but did get it once finally, so that was it...



I didn't have time to screw around with it - had a long RV tow facing me, so just swapped in the new II spare VP I had recently bought, and that was it - never any codes yet with the replacement pump - and the engine operation is EXACTLY the same as with the old one it replaced, other than one 237 that popped up once. I simply unplugged and replugged the MAP sensor plug for that one, and no more 237 so far.



Sure wish I had had time to play around with a few things with the old pump - and now I'm not sure there was an all out basic VP issue - or something that aggravated the 216 other than a genuine full failure in the making at some future date - thus the above posts as to the apparent Smarty contribution interests me.



By no means suggesting the Smarty CAUSES the problem - but maybe it stresses the VP-44 in a way that causes a weak pumps impending failure potential to surface sooner than it might otherwise? I'm thinking along the lines that when a new VP-44 is calibrated, settings are optimized near the center of tolerance - but as miles accumulate, components wear and/or drift from optimum, and then when some outside influence effectively pushes operating conditions even further from "normal", it might trigger the 216 code - even tho the totally STOCK VP-44 will function on it's own with no problems or codes.



Just a theory...



It would have been easier in my case if the pump HAD displayed some actual failure characteristics - but without any, I don't know if I really DO have a solid pump issue that requires it to be rebuilt - or just some evasive glitch!

 

[Bob Wagner]

Gary, Cummin on the nw bomber board did get the 0216 to set while smarty was off the truck and he was pulling his 5er on a hill.



the dealer replaced the pump and also gave cummin a new in the tank lift pump :{





I can push my truck to 3500 and never set a 0216 code with either the catcher ecm or now the smarty.



I do believe smarty will show a weak vp44 ready to go out

 

[Bob Wagner]

thread

http://www.nwbombers.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=25124

 

[Fishin Guide]

I can push my truck to 3500 and never set a 0216 code with either the catcher ecm or now the smarty.



I do believe smarty will show a weak vp44 ready to go out

Is that in Neutral? Drive? I can get my truck to spin to 3400 now. But, no more.



Dave

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Gary, Cummin on the nw bomber board did get the 0216 to set while smarty was off the truck and he was pulling his 5er on a hill.



the dealer replaced the pump and also gave cummin a new in the tank lift pump :{





I can push my truck to 3500 and never set a 0216 code with either the catcher ecm or now the smarty.



I do believe smarty will show a weak vp44 ready to go out

YUP Bob, he did finally get the 216 without the Smarty software - just as I eventually did - but like I said, it's MUCH harder to get WITHOUT the Smarty loaded.



I suspect the same might also be true with the Comp or other devices/downloaders that alter engine fueling/timing.



I guess the real question, if my theory holds, is about how FAR out of optimum condition must a VP-44 be before the Smarty or other devices push it over the edge and trigger codes?



Most cases to date involve substantial dead-pedal and related issues along with the 216 error code - but in cases where it is triggered with NO accompanying engine performance issues, what might the alternatives be?



Remove devices and programming to bleed that last available mile outta the VP-44 - or consider it a shot across the bow, and get the sucker (VP-44) outta there?